Summit Non-Scholarship Football

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JBB
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Summit Non-Scholarship Football

Postby JBB » Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:09 am

Summit Non-Scholarship Football:

It fills a need. It plugs a hole. It will help some schools get off the dole.

Advantages:
    budget relief by scaling expenses to revenues and commitment
    Increased competitiveness encouraging more fan participation
    Strengthens Summit League with addition of football
    Provides a more competitive basketball environment by giving potential move-ups such as Augi a football alternative
    Opens the MVFC to expansion and/or divisional change
    Will integrate well with Pioneer league and MVFC scheduling
Legitimate segregation for growing another level of D1 football could encourage schools like Mn Duluth or others that might be ready to move. Additional move-ups would greatly enhance the local and regional flavor of the Summit basketball league while providing more local and regional games in all the non revenue olympic sports for both men and women.

Potential Candidates:

MSU
USD
WIU
UND
Augie
Wis Green Bay (just announced plans for non scholarship football)
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Re: Summit Non-Scholarship Football

Postby JBB » Sat Sep 28, 2019 8:56 pm

UND had 6 turnovers today. team profile should have been competitive with an under achieving EWU team. that profile was a paper tiger. UND is a distressed program.

Frozen4sioux Members 3,041 posts
Location:Bismarck eh
Posted 1 hour ago

Can UND football compete at this level?

Everything Ive seen so far since the change has been poorly mangled, and it shows.


Longtime fan
1,850 posts
Posted 1 hour ago

With the 50 years that I’ve been deeply invested with und football I don’t ever recall this feeling of just complete letdown.....I don’t see any positivity. Nothing to grab onto. D1 has been a cruel joke. Just sucks.


Schools with D1 hockey and a budget the size of UNDs are playing in D2. This is especially true of our region because of travel. For many years UND opposed moving up to keep their budget artificially low while enjoying top D2 competition in the old NCC.

The mighty land grants finally made the move on their own against a huge effort to stop the move by UND and other allies in the NCC. Ultimately, a number of years later, UND made the move while leaving the remainder of the NCC in the lurch. It was an unorganized, ill-planned and poorly financed move from the start.

Their athletic department has been struggling ever since. They dragged USD along with them, another program better suited to D2.

UND has had little success in D1. Even the hockey program is in a downward spiral. I’m not sure how long they can continue like this. The decay is obviously affecting their #1 sport hockey too.

Both UND and USD are better suited for D2 or at least non-Scholarship D1 football if they hope to survive and succeed.

UND felt compelled to move because they thought they were losing prestige to NDSU. They lost their prestige anyway and it’s getting worse. Hilariously worse.
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Re: Summit Non-Scholarship Football

Postby SDHornet » Sat Sep 28, 2019 9:31 pm

Why do you care some much about UND football and what they decide to spend their athletic dough on?

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Re: Summit Non-Scholarship Football

Postby JBB » Sat Sep 28, 2019 9:51 pm

Thanks for the interest.

1). The Summit could use a non scholarship football league.
2). UND gets a disproportionate amount of tax payer dollars in ND. Instead of financing them to fail in D1 fewer dollars could be spent for their success with a more realistic D2 or non scholarship budget.
3). It is important to keep interested folks like yourself informed.

When ever tax payer dollars are being wasted it’s important for all of us to speak out.
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Re: Summit Non-Scholarship Football

Postby JBB » Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:22 am

University Min Duluth, UMD, is the perfect example of a successful small college athletics business model scaled for success while meeting their fiduciary responsibility to the tax payers of the state and the students they educate for a fee. They are about the same size as UND with similar budgets, both play D1 hockey but UMD is D2. Both were in the same D2 conference.

UMD remained in D2 when UND moved. The Bulldogs have won several D1 Hockey and D2 football national championships since that time. They are able to afford what they do and be successful on their budget which is similar to UNDs. That lends prestige and an image of success to the entire university.

On the other hand because of the failed business model UND struggles with budgetary problems affecting their competitiveness in all sports. Should a public institution be allowed to continue with a failed business model?

The private sector automatically self-corrects failing business models. If not corrected in the public sector the problems will get worse and far more expensive. Lots of tax payer money is obviously being wasted now. Their big sky fiasco is a good example. It’s time North Dakota corrected its mistake. They were right, they can’t win in D1, at least not with scholarships.

Summit non-scholarship football could be the answer for UND as well as some other struggling programs. It could also provide a good home for other regional schools able to move up but not wanting to repeat UNDs mistake of over extending themselves. Augustana is a good example.
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Re: Summit Non-Scholarship Football

Postby JBB » Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:45 am

SDHornet wrote:Why do you care some much about UND football and what they decide to spend their athletic dough on?


The crisis at UND is very real and existential in nature. The move to division 1 has decimated their athletic programs because they simply do not have the money. One of the biggest mistakes was accepting the REA hockey rink gift. They can’t afford it.

In order to run the building among other things the REA foundation takes 50% of ticket revenues from all sports for 30 years. They are now 15 years into the deal and it has drained them. A public brawl broke out again between REA and UND admin this year. Acrimony and on-going hard feelings were all exposed. There was no change. There can’t be. The money is needed to pay the buildings way.

when the deal ends in 15 years UND gets the building. It will break them trying to operate and maintain the old building. It’s breaking them now even in the buildings prime of life.

A huge sign that UND is broke along with USD is student fees. Both schools were better suited in D2 and would benefit from D1 non scholarship football.

From the UND board siouxsports.com:

Here's a little wider group of regional schools(ND/SD/MT/IA/NE). The first set are sorted by student fee dollar amount, the second set by percentage of athletic dept revenue, the third set is student fees per year per full-time undergrad student(also per year per FTE for ND schools). All data sets are from the 2017-18 academic year.

$3.6M UND
$3.0M USD
$2.3M SDSU
$2.2M UNO
$2.0M MSU
$2.0M UNI
$1.5M NDSU
$1.2M UM

15.3% USD
12.6% UND
10.5% UNO
10.4% SDSU
9.8% UNI
9.0% MSU
5.4% UM
5.3% NDSU

$606 USD
$425 UND ($312 by FTE)
$273 SDSU
$224 UNO
$219 UNI
$163 MSU
$161 UM
$139 NDSU ($122 by FTE)
Sources: USA Today NCAA Finances Report, US Dept of Ed: Equity in Athletics, NDSU Enrollment Report


Both UND & USD have maxed out student funding. Their programs are running red hot. having apparently maxed out community funding sources they have turned to the students, burdening them with the uncontrolled costs.

They recognize the problem. Their discussion is touching on many of the points I have been making. They are dancing around the D2 and non scholarship solutions while spending some time debating the location of the student sections.

The key to their discussion is scale: what is the proper level of athletic competition for a school with their budget and D1 hockey.

If they insist on staying D1 USD & UND would be better suited to joining other programs appropriately scaled in a Summit non scholarship league.
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Re: Summit Non-Scholarship Football

Postby JBB » Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:21 am

Mythical Summit non scholarship football league standings:

Augustana 3 -1
St Thomas 3-1

Wisconsin transfer 2-2
MVFC transfer. 2-2

Drake. 2-3
Butler. 1-4
Dear Lord, We come before you and humbly ask you to grant our prayer for a veil of protection to be placed over Donald Trump. May your will be done. In Jesus name we pray. Amen

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Re: Summit Non-Scholarship Football

Postby JBB » Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:48 pm

Mythical Summit non scholarship football league standings:

Augustana 4 -1. Beats St Cloud 16-13
St Thomas 4 - 1. Beats Augsburg 53-0

Wisconsin transfer 3-2
UND 3 - 2. Loses to IDS 55 - 20

Drake. 3-3 Beats Butler 42 - 7
Butler. 1-5
Dear Lord, We come before you and humbly ask you to grant our prayer for a veil of protection to be placed over Donald Trump. May your will be done. In Jesus name we pray. Amen


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