SHOULD NDSU GET TF OUTTA FCS?

[UNI88]

You really need to change your avatar Hen ...

For being truthful?? Me being a Hens fan has ZERO to do with the state of I-AA football today. If anything, I should be making the case that the reason the Hens are so down right now is BECAUSE the division is just so darn strong right now. Truth is, the Hens stink in a division that is down.

You have very articulately expressed your opinion that FCS is down but it is no more the truth than Gil or Kalm's opinion. You're almost as bad as the Bison Lynch Mob (BLM) on AGS in thinking that because other people share the same opinion than it must be the truth.

You tend to be a negative Nancy, Eeyore is your spirit animal.

[89Hen]

For being truthful?? Me being a Hens fan has ZERO to do with the state of I-AA football today. If anything, I should be making the case that the reason the Hens are so down right now is BECAUSE the division is just so darn strong right now. Truth is, the Hens stink in a division that is down.

You have very articulately expressed your opinion that FCS is down but it is no more the truth than Gil or Kalm's opinion. You're almost as bad as the Bison Lynch Mob (BLM) on AGS in thinking that because other people share the same opinion than it must be the truth.

You tend to be a negative Nancy, Eeyore is your spirit animal.

But it is the truth.

[JohnStOnge]

That's correct. They'd probably have some initial success, as Marshall and Boise St did, but then after the realization set in that they're not Alabama or Ohio State they'd lose their current culture and become mediocre, like Marshall and Boise St five to ten years later.

And I think they enjoy beating up on the slop that is current FCS football. Some people are masochists like that.

I agree regarding championships and not moving up but BSU has only 4 years in the last 20 where they DIDNT have double digit wins. Those 4 were all 8 or 9 win seasons. Twice they’ve finished undefeated. App is similar so far. There’s no regrets moving up but yes, they are the outlier.

The mainstream of FBS is what we now call "Power 5" teams. Boise State pads its W/L record by playing the overwhelming majority of its games against teams that are not what we now call "Power 5" teams. Since going to I-A Boise State's record against programs now in the Power 5 is 24-26. If you just look at the last 6 years (since that's when App State started) it's 7-6. Mediocre.

Since going FBS Appalachian State's record against Power 5 teams is 2-7. They beat one mediocre and one bad Power 5 team this year in spite of being physically outplayed both times. Over time, they are not going to have a winning record against mainstream FBS teams.

[JohnStOnge]

On the FCS strength thing:

When that discussion was going on I looked up the number of I-AA/FCS teams in the top 100 of Sagarin ratings going back through 1998. Just updated it and the number dropped from 7 to 6 for this year. The trend is not "significant" but one could say that it does look like there may be a declining trend. Here is what it looks like:

[kalm]

I agree regarding championships and not moving up but BSU has only 4 years in the last 20 where they DIDNT have double digit wins. Those 4 were all 8 or 9 win seasons. Twice they’ve finished undefeated. App is similar so far. There’s no regrets moving up but yes, they are the outlier.

The mainstream of FBS is what we now call "Power 5" teams. Boise State pads its W/L record by playing the overwhelming majority of its games against teams that are not what we now call "Power 5" teams. Since going to I-A Boise State's record against programs now in the Power 5 is 24-26. If you just look at the last 6 years (since that's when App State started) it's 7-6. Mediocre.

Since going FBS Appalachian State's record against Power 5 teams is 2-7. They beat one mediocre and one bad Power 5 team this year in spite of being physically outplayed both times. Over time, they are not going to have a winning record against mainstream FBS teams.

.500 against P5’s over 4 season’s worth of games would place them abovecthe majority of P5 programs.

[JohnStOnge]

The mainstream of FBS is what we now call "Power 5" teams. Boise State pads its W/L record by playing the overwhelming majority of its games against teams that are not what we now call "Power 5" teams. Since going to I-A Boise State's record against programs now in the Power 5 is 24-26. If you just look at the last 6 years (since that's when App State started) it's 7-6. Mediocre.

Since going FBS Appalachian State's record against Power 5 teams is 2-7. They beat one mediocre and one bad Power 5 team this year in spite of being physically outplayed both times. Over time, they are not going to have a winning record against mainstream FBS teams.

.500 against P5’s over 4 season’s worth of games would place them abovecthe majority of P5 programs.

Middle of the pack as measured against the mainstream of the FBS. When you see former FCS programs that have glittering records over numbers of seasons it's because they have been playing weak schedules that include few members of the mainstream.

[kalm]

.500 against P5’s over 4 season’s worth of games would place them abovecthe majority of P5 programs.

Middle of the pack as measured against the mainstream of the FBS. When you see former FCS programs that have glittering records over numbers of seasons it's because they have been playing weak schedules that include few members of the mainstream.

Mainstream ain’t exactly a defining bar.

I would suggest a significant number of bowl teams are above .500 due to FCS and bottom feeder G5 wins. Also, see SEC Alabama scheduling. Meanwhile BSU frequently schedules FSU, Oregon, Oklahoma State, BYU....

[UNI88]

Middle of the pack as measured against the mainstream of the FBS. When you see former FCS programs that have glittering records over numbers of seasons it's because they have been playing weak schedules that include few members of the mainstream.

Mainstream ain’t exactly a defining bar.

I would suggest a significant number of bowl teams are above .500 due to FCS and bottom feeder G5 wins. Also, see SEC Alabama scheduling. Meanwhile BSU frequently schedules FSU, Oregon, Oklahoma State, BYU....

Shhh, John is defining the parameters of the argument so that he can prove that he is correct. He does the same thing when arguing about Trump, you just refuse to notice it.

[kalm]

Mainstream ain’t exactly a defining bar.

I would suggest a significant number of bowl teams are above .500 due to FCS and bottom feeder G5 wins. Also, see SEC Alabama scheduling. Meanwhile BSU frequently schedules FSU, Oregon, Oklahoma State, BYU....

Shhh, John is defining the parameters of the argument so that he can prove that he is correct. He does the same thing when arguing about Trump, you just refuse to notice it.

I notice it. You guys have just failed to prove him all that wrong in his assertions.

[UNI88]

Shhh, John is defining the parameters of the argument so that he can prove that he is correct. He does the same thing when arguing about Trump, you just refuse to notice it.

I notice it. You guys have just failed to prove him all that wrong in his assertions.

So you agree with him that Trump is an absolute abomination and that no democratic candidate is anywhere near as despicable?

On the economy, Flaggy and AZ gave him plenty of reasons why keeping the economy chugging along has been a positive. Even when he isn't blinded by hatred JSO has a hard time getting past the numbers and seeing the big picture.

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[kalm]

I notice it. You guys have just failed to prove him all that wrong in his assertions.

So you agree with him that Trump is an absolute abomination and that no democratic candidate is anywhere near as despicable?

On the economy, Flaggy and AZ gave him plenty of reasons why keeping the economy chugging along has been a positive. Even when he isn't blinded by hatred JSO has a hard time getting past the numbers and seeing the big picture.

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1). Not an abomination. Your words.

2). Keeping the economy chugging along is a positive. But there are still underlying concerns and I’m not sure Trump deserves all that much credit. If it slows down this year will you blame Trump?

[JBB]

Just for perspective, Marshall had one undefeated IAA team (a juggernaut with an all-time NFL receiver and an NFL QB), GSU had 1 with a legendary coach. App beat Michigan and had a three-peat and still never had an undefeated season. NDSU has now had undefeated teams in 3 consecutive coaching staffs and two in a row. Chris Klieman and Matt Entz both have higher winning percentages at NDSU than Nick Saban does at Alabama even if you throw out his first season.

The record shows NDSU is better than those teams that’s all. Are all the other teams so bad NDSU and no other can beat up on the division at will?

[JBB]

A few years back when the NDSU Dynasty was initiating this run I attempted to explain what was occurring. At that time many of you argued, cried and whined NDSU was about to learn a lesson and the FCS was just too good for them.

Most of you didn’t understand then and are still flailing away trying to understand. The common core background of many certainly doesn’t help when trying to apply logic, reasoning and fact.

You can’t explain NDSUs success by examining the other teams. Those teams are the same as they ever were. So are The Bison.

The Bison were kicked out of D2 after 7 or 8 titles and a domination of the D2 competition similar to the FCS now. they changed the rules to make D2 appear more competitive locking out larger, successful programs in favor of participation trophies. NDSU had to move to FCS or ratchet the program back leaving a lot of money on the table in a growing market.

From the perspective of an NDSU fan I entirely agree compared to The Bison the rest of the division appears to be no good or down etc. In reality the rest of the FCS is the same as it ever was as are the Bison.

Dollar for dollar NDSU has the best program in the history of college football. As the Fargo market grows so will NDSU Football.

Butler at Target Field was no fluke. It was a test run. Rumor in Fargo is Wisconsin wants a shot at the Bison in the TCF Bank Stadium. The signing may wait for the outcome of the NDSU/Oregon game. It may not happen, but the rumor points the direction.

Game Day is headed to Oregon as are the eyes of the nations college football fans. Oregon has their hands full. NDSU is a game day regular. Times are changing. Just another page in the great Bison Lore.

[JBB]

NDSUs 5 million football budget was a monster in D2, its average to above in FCS and its extremely small in the FBS yet The Bison win at every level. Why? The NDSU College of Football is the best in the land.

[Ivytalk]

Why don’t we take it a step further and advocate the secession of North Dakota from the United States?

[kalm]

Why don’t we take it a step further and advocate the secession of North Dakota from the United States?

I think you have that backwards.

[Gil Dobie]

FCS is better than it's ever been.

Clearly. AGS is 90% Bison fans and 90% Bison discussion, with a remaining 5% being the Bison sycophants from SDSU and the like who have beaten down enough to succumb to Stockholm syndrome. Playoff attendance is through the toilet since you're watching someone you hope can be a runner-up. Unless you're one of 4-5 programs who built something, you're probably headed back to mediocrity as soon as your seniors leave or your coach gets poached. Seems like those are all pretty good indicators of health and interest...


...and to answer BF, yeah, they probably should if at all possible. You think'd their admin would be working overtime to make it happen instead of coming up with excuses as to why it's impossible. There are no worlds left to conquer here, just a sad division with 100 programs that barely try that they don't belong in.

And tell me there is no urgency if JMU jumps, or SDSU starts implying they want to jump, or programs start cutting the sport? FCS is getting worse before it gets better imo.

It would be great to see Montana back in the mix. They were the Bison first big FCS win back in 2003, while still DIi. Montana's football budget is also higher than NDSU's. They have the money and facilities to compete. I'm sure they will be back someday when they get the right people involved, which they may have right now.

[UNI88]

So you agree with him that Trump is an absolute abomination and that no democratic candidate is anywhere near as despicable?

On the economy, Flaggy and AZ gave him plenty of reasons why keeping the economy chugging along has been a positive. Even when he isn't blinded by hatred JSO has a hard time getting past the numbers and seeing the big picture.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

1). Not an abomination. Your words.

2). Keeping the economy chugging along is a positive. But there are still underlying concerns and I’m not sure Trump deserves all that much credit. If it slows down this year will you blame Trump?

1) My words but synonyms for words JSO has used. So you disagree with him?

2) It's not a question of how much credit, JSO doesn't give Trump any credit for anything.

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[UNI88]

FCS is better than it's ever been.

Clearly. AGS is 90% Bison fans and 90% Bison discussion, with a remaining 5% being the Bison sycophants from SDSU and the like who have beaten down enough to succumb to Stockholm syndrome. Playoff attendance is through the toilet since you're watching someone you hope can be a runner-up. Unless you're one of 4-5 programs who built something, you're probably headed back to mediocrity as soon as your seniors leave or your coach gets poached. Seems like those are all pretty good indicators of health and interest...


...and to answer BF, yeah, they probably should if at all possible. You think'd their admin would be working overtime to make it happen instead of coming up with excuses as to why it's impossible. There are no worlds left to conquer here, just a sad division with 100 programs that barely try that they don't belong in.

And tell me there is no urgency if JMU jumps, or SDSU starts implying they want to jump, or programs start cutting the sport? FCS is getting worse before it gets better imo.

What about the other 5%? I'm fighting the good fight against those trying to turn AGS into Bizumbville.

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[kalm]

1). Not an abomination. Your words.

2). Keeping the economy chugging along is a positive. But there are still underlying concerns and I’m not sure Trump deserves all that much credit. If it slows down this year will you blame Trump?

1) My words but synonyms for words JSO has used. So you disagree with him?

2) It's not a question of how much credit, JSO doesn't give Trump any credit for anything.

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Yes. I disagree that he’s an absolute abomination when it comes to the economy. He’s really just another Reagan. Damaging in the long run regarding the environment, entrenched power, and wealth transfer. But not an absolute abomination that we can’t survive.

[vutomcat]

Interesting list from Massey.

Nothing from Massey is interesting.

So predictable 89. You and 93 are the Bittermen of the forum.

The FCS is alive and well. Massey and Sagarin computer rankings are only one way to measure teams. Are they perfect, especially for football, definitely not. Whether you want to consider number of NFL athletes, or computer calculations, or consider that the athletes today are for the most part bigger, stronger and faster than those of some of the years mentioned in this thread, doesn't matter. It boils down to opinion and perspective from what I see in these posts.

Bison fans are pro, lots of other FCS fans are in the middle, Hen fans have an agenda to prove that their great teams of the past were playing better competition and are hanging on to the past.

[Gil Dobie]

Nothing from Massey is interesting.

So predictable 89. You and 93 are the Bittermen of the forum.

The FCS is alive and well. Massey and Sagarin computer rankings are only one way to measure teams. Are they perfect, especially for football, definitely not. Whether you want to consider number of NFL athletes, or computer calculations, or consider that the athletes today are for the most part bigger, stronger and faster than those of some of the years mentioned in this thread, doesn't matter. It boils down to opinion and perspective from what I see in these posts.

Bison fans are pro, lots of other FCS fans are in the middle, Hen fans have an agenda to prove that their great teams of the past were playing better competition and are hanging on to the past.

Boom!

[Silenoz]

It would be great to see Montana back in the mix. They were the Bison first big FCS win back in 2003, while still DIi. Montana's football budget is also higher than NDSU's. They have the money and facilities to compete. I'm sure they will be back someday when they get the right people involved, which they may have right now.

Yeah, good luck with that. Accounting practices aside, if we truly had more money we'd be paying FCOA and not about to slash budgets while our attendance (and everyone else's) continues to slide.

[89Hen]

So predictable 89. You and 93 are the Bittermen of the forum.

The FCS is alive and well. Massey and Sagarin computer rankings are only one way to measure teams. Are they perfect, especially for football, definitely not. Whether you want to consider number of NFL athletes, or computer calculations, or consider that the athletes today are for the most part bigger, stronger and faster than those of some of the years mentioned in this thread, doesn't matter. It boils down to opinion and perspective from what I see in these posts.

Bison fans are pro, lots of other FCS fans are in the middle, Hen fans have an agenda to prove that their great teams of the past were playing better competition and are hanging on to the past.

Boom!

Gil, it's sad to see you glomming on that weak post. I-AA is alive and well, but it is NOT better than it used to be. NDSU's dominance alone shows this.

You guys are idiots to think that losing AppSt, GSU, WKU, ODU, etc... doesn't have an impact on the overall quality of the division.

[Gil Dobie]

Boom!

Gil, it's sad to see you glomming on that weak post. I-AA is alive and well, but it is NOT better than it used to be. NDSU's dominance alone shows this.

You guys are idiots to think that losing AppSt, GSU, WKU, ODU, etc... doesn't have an impact on the overall quality of the division.

This decade, who was better. Looks like the old GSU, App St and whoever have been replaced.
UP: Weber St, JMU, EWU, NDSU, SDSU, Illinois St, UCD, Jacksonville St, Sam Houston, Austin Peay, Kennesaw St, Monmouth, Montana St, Towson, Central Arkansas
Teams like Youngstown, Montana, UNI, Wofford continue to compete and make the playoffs.

18 different teams made the final 4 in the playoffs
NDSU 9
Sam Houston & EWU 5
GSU, JMU, UNH 3
SDSU 2
Nova, Delaware, Montana, Towson, Illinois St, JSU, Richmond, YSU, Maine, Montana St & Weber St

The landscape has changed, the old guard still represents, and you can see new faces this decade.