UNI clinches MVC title

[clenz]

Actually, I think it has been the other way around as of late. The Valley doesn't need SLU, at all. They don't offer anything more than Evansville does, other than being in STL. And the Valley tournament is already in STL, so there is that connection already.

SLU coach Rick Majerus has been lobying hard for the past two season to leave the A10 and join the MVC.

Trading SLU for E'ville would do wonders for the conf RPI, and, one might argue, additional national respect

I'd take it in a heartbeat, but I don't see what SLU has to gain by moving down in conf "presteige", or at least perceived presteige.

Agreed. The A10 has a reputation as a better basketball conference. However, I would argue that dropping E'ville and adding SLU would put the MVC even with the A10.

[DJH]

Actually, I think it has been the other way around as of late. The Valley doesn't need SLU, at all. They don't offer anything more than Evansville does, other than being in STL. And the Valley tournament is already in STL, so there is that connection already.

SLU coach Rick Majerus has been lobying hard for the past two season to leave the A10 and join the MVC.

Trading SLU for E'ville would do wonders for the conf RPI, and, one might argue, additional national respect

I'd take it in a heartbeat, but I don't see what SLU has to gain by moving down in conf "presteige", or at least perceived presteige.

He wants out because he thinks the MVC is a better conference, and more importantly, is the right geographical fit. SLU just doesn't fit in the A10, and I agree with him.

[clenz]

Trading SLU for E'ville would do wonders for the conf RPI, and, one might argue, additional national respect

I'd take it in a heartbeat, but I don't see what SLU has to gain by moving down in conf "presteige", or at least perceived presteige.

He wants out because he thinks the MVC is a better conference, and more importantly, is the right geographical fit. SLU just doesn't fit in the A10, and I agree with him.

Agree completely from me there as well


There are 3, or 4 schools that don't fit. And even without those 14 they are still over their 10 team name with 11

[JayJ79]

don't people sometimes complain about Southern Illinois having an advantage at the MVC tournament due to their closer proximity to Saint Louis? Wouldn't that give St. Louis University an even bigger advantage if they joined the conference?

[JayJ79]

Hell, the wore sleeeved jerseys until the late 90s I believe.

does the length of one's sleeves affect a team's basketball-playing ability?

[clenz]

Hell, the wore sleeeved jerseys until the late 90s I believe.

does the length of one's sleeves affect a team's basketball-playing ability?

No...but it does speak to the quality of the program and the commitment to athletics from the university. If they don't want to be fully committed to athletics, that is fine. However, they shouldn't be in a conference that is very committed to sports.

[JayJ79]

does the length of one's sleeves affect a team's basketball-playing ability?

No...but it does speak to the quality of the program and the commitment to athletics from the university. If they don't want to be fully committed to athletics, that is fine. However, they shouldn't be in a conference that is very committed to sports.

and yet now long sleeves are making a comeback. but only on one arm.
fads are entertaining.

[DJH]

don't people sometimes complain about Southern Illinois having an advantage at the MVC tournament due to their closer proximity to Saint Louis? Wouldn't that give St. Louis University an even bigger advantage if they joined the conference?

Its against conf rules to have the tournament at a home team's city. If SLU were to ever join the Valley, the tournament would be moved. Most likely to Kansas City.

[JayJ79]

don't people sometimes complain about Southern Illinois having an advantage at the MVC tournament due to their closer proximity to Saint Louis? Wouldn't that give St. Louis University an even bigger advantage if they joined the conference?

Its against conf rules to have the tournament at a home team's city. If SLU were to ever join the Valley, the tournament would be moved. Most likely to Kansas City.

I didn't see that particular rule listed in the conference procedures. But I might have missed it.

[clenz]

don't people sometimes complain about Southern Illinois having an advantage at the MVC tournament due to their closer proximity to Saint Louis? Wouldn't that give St. Louis University an even bigger advantage if they joined the conference?

Its against conf rules to have the tournament at a home team's city. If SLU were to ever join the Valley, the tournament would be moved. Most likely to Kansas City.

There are fans, yes fans/blogosphere people, that would rather have it in KC. Panthernation has quite a few of them actually. I like St. Louis, but would take Kansas City.

[DJH]

I wouldn't mind. KC is nice. Both are pretty similar.

I'd actually like to see a rotation between the two.

[clenz]

I wouldn't mind. KC is nice. Both are pretty similar.

I'd actually like to see a rotation between the two.

I've only been through KC twice...same trip. I was drove to Mexico and went through on the way down and back. Never went into it outside of stopping off the interstate at a McDonalds. I wouldn't mind a 2 year rotation. However, if it got moved to KC I can imagine the bitching coming from the Illinois and Indiana schools already.

[UNI88]

does the length of one's sleeves affect a team's basketball-playing ability?

No...but it does speak to the quality of the program and the commitment to athletics from the university. If they don't want to be fully committed to athletics, that is fine. However, they shouldn't be in a conference that is very committed to sports.

Don't quote me but I believe Evansville wore the sleeves due to some tradition from long ago not because of anything relating to the quality of the program. Evansville might not fit in the Valley but they have had decent teams at different times in the past and there is nothing to say they won't again in the future. Also, there were a few unhappy campers when UNI joined the Valley because people thought it brought down the quality of the conference. UNI had trouble getting past UW Green Bay to get a bid back in those days. If there is an opening, the Valley should take a strategic perspective based on the long-term prospects of what ever schools they are considering.

[JayJ79]

However, if it got moved to KC I can imagine the bitching coming from the Illinois and Indiana schools already.

Creighton to STL: 437 miles - 6:47
WSU to STL: 442 miles - 6:58

INS to KC: 410 miles - 6:33
Evansville to KC: 420 miles - 6:44

Though I suppose the OVERALL average might be slightly higher for KC than for STL, since there are more teams in illinois that would have to travel a little farther.

[OSBF]

Comparing KNMO to STLMO is like saying a Yugo is the same as a Corvette. Both may be cars, but that's about all that's the same. KCMO is a shithole compared to STL.

[clenz]

However, if it got moved to KC I can imagine the bitching coming from the Illinois and Indiana schools already.

Creighton to STL: 437 miles - 6:47
WSU to STL: 442 miles - 6:58

INS to KC: 410 miles - 6:33
Evansville to KC: 420 miles - 6:44

Though I suppose the OVERALL average might be slightly higher for KC than for STL, since there are more teams in illinois that would have to travel a little farther.

The point wasn't do much about the in schools because they don't travel anyway. The hitching from the Illinois schools would be non stop because it wouldn't be in their back yard anymore

[clenz]

Someone on valleytalk did a break down comparing STL to KC


Well, here's the distances from campuses to the Sprint Center (the major arena in Kansas City):

Missouri State - 170 miles
Creighton - 185 miles
Drake - 192 miles
Wichita State - 197 miles
Northern Iowa - 316 miles
Southern Illinois - 380 miles
Illinois State - 409 miles
Bradley - 411 miles
Indiana State - 411 miles
Evansville - 419 miles

Compared to the Scottrade Center, Missouri State, Creighton, Drake, and Northern Iowa are better off, with Creighton and Wichita State receiving the most benefit (-248 for CU, and -246 for Wichita State). However, this is a horrible location for the Illinois and Indiana schools - all of them except for Southern Illinois would have to travel an extra 240, while SIU fans would have to go an extra 276 miles.

Here is the difference in miles for all of the schools:

Creighton: -248
Wichita State: -246
Drake: -181
Missouri State: -45
Northern Iowa: -30
Bradley: +240
Illinois State: +240
Indiana State: +240
Evansville: +240
Southern Illinois: +276

The average distance to the Spring Center is 309 miles, while the average distance to the Scottrade Center is 260 miles. Therefore, there is an average gain of 49 miles per school.

However, that is not the whole story. You also have to consider how many fans are at the various schools, and get a weighted average. These calculations are not perfect, since many alumni of the schools often move away, so they might end up closer to another MVC school than their own. Still, this is probably a more accurate representation.

After the weighted calculations, there was a total increase of 86535 miles traveled by all the fans (according to cpacmel's post earlier in the thread). With 6272 tickets accounted for, this results in an increase of 13.8 miles per person traveled.

With the difference in travel so small per person, a move to Kansas City is feasible. If the Sprint Center is cheaper to rent than the Scottrade Center, and the MVC is able to get cheaper hotel rates for anyone staying there, I would support the move.

[OSBF]

Someone on valleytalk did a break down comparing STL to KC


Well, here's the distances from campuses to the Sprint Center (the major arena in Kansas City):

Missouri State - 170 miles
Creighton - 185 miles
Drake - 192 miles
Wichita State - 197 miles
Northern Iowa - 316 miles
Southern Illinois - 380 miles
Illinois State - 409 miles
Bradley - 411 miles
Indiana State - 411 miles
Evansville - 419 miles

Compared to the Scottrade Center, Missouri State, Creighton, Drake, and Northern Iowa are better off, with Creighton and Wichita State receiving the most benefit (-248 for CU, and -246 for Wichita State). However, this is a horrible location for the Illinois and Indiana schools - all of them except for Southern Illinois would have to travel an extra 240, while SIU fans would have to go an extra 276 miles.

Here is the difference in miles for all of the schools:

Creighton: -248
Wichita State: -246
Drake: -181
Missouri State: -45
Northern Iowa: -30
Bradley: +240
Illinois State: +240
Indiana State: +240
Evansville: +240
Southern Illinois: +276

The average distance to the Spring Center is 309 miles, while the average distance to the Scottrade Center is 260 miles. Therefore, there is an average gain of 49 miles per school.

However, that is not the whole story. You also have to consider how many fans are at the various schools, and get a weighted average. These calculations are not perfect, since many alumni of the schools often move away, so they might end up closer to another MVC school than their own. Still, this is probably a more accurate representation.

After the weighted calculations, there was a total increase of 86535 miles traveled by all the fans (according to cpacmel's post earlier in the thread). With 6272 tickets accounted for, this results in an increase of 13.8 miles per person traveled.

With the difference in travel so small per person, a move to Kansas City is feasible. If the Sprint Center is cheaper to rent than the Scottrade Center, and the MVC is able to get cheaper hotel rates for anyone staying there, I would support the move.

Where does the formula account for KCMO being a shithole and downtown STL being a great place to be?

[clenz]

One wrong turn downtown stl and you can end up in a ghetto that would make some of the most ghetto people go "damn, it's ghetto here"

[OSBF]

One wrong turn downtown stl and you can end up in a ghetto that would make some of the most ghetto people go "damn, it's ghetto here"

In STL you can get there Thursday, park your car, and you don't need it till you want to go home Sunday. You can walk from your hotel to ScotTrade, to food, and to nightlife. Can't do that in KC, have to take a cab every time you want to someplace. Is that a deal breaker? No, but is much more of a pain in the ass, and I woud prefer to not give up being able to walk easily everywhere I want to go.

The ghetto areas in STL really are nowhere near the downtown area. On many occasions I have walked from Busch Stadium down to the landing after a game, closed down the bars, and walked back downtown to the hotel and never even once felt afraid of what I was doing.