THE BIG EAST CONFERENCE

[grizzaholic]

Look at the big brain on Clenz...going around, ripping tits off everyplace he visits tonight.

[clenz]

It's amazing that the other Big East homer, Seahawks08, is on our (Bluehen86, myself, and whoever else) but yet tomcat continues to hold out with overwhelming evidence against him.

He'll continue to avoid the entire topic but find some random article talking about VU and their chances to win the title...which isn't the topic that's been discussed.

Also, I struggle to take VU completely seriously with the way Creighton shit stomped them...twice. Once I could understand. Twice isn't an accident.

FWIW, before tomcat has an aneurism, I have Nova in the S16 in my bracket before bowing out to Iowa State.

Didn't VU lose in the first game of their tourney?

haven't played yet.

Two other big east schools lost their first games though

[grizzaholic]

Didn't VU lose in the first game of their tourney?

haven't played yet.

Two other big east schools lost their first games though

I said THEIR. Didn't they lose to Seton Hall or someone in the first round of their tourney?

[Seahawks08]

I said THEIR. Didn't they lose to Seton Hall or someone in the first round of their tourney?

Yes they did. And your point is what exactly?

[Seahawks08]

There is ZERO chance in hell that the AAC lets UCONN and Cinci run back to the Big East and leave football there....ZERO.

There is a slightly better chance...like .000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% better...that they move football indy and do it that way. Problem is...there's no money in being an independent unless you are Notre Dame, anymore. Even ND is moving into a conference alignmentish with the ACC.

The new playoff format doesn't make it reasonable to be independent either without doing what ND did and aligning with a conference. The AAC/B10/B12/SEC aren't going to let UCONN/Cinci do that.


The Big East's *best* bet is to try to raid Dayton, St. Louis, VCU, etc... However, you will never convince me that the Big East is ANYTHING other than a MM conference at that point.

Fair enough. It was a dream scenario, but that's what I would like to see.

A MM conference? So the SEC and AAC are MM conferences too right?

[grizzaholic]

I said THEIR. Didn't they lose to Seton Hall or someone in the first round of their tourney?

Yes they did. And your point is what exactly?

Losing in the first round of your conference tourney, while talking up your this and that, doesn't give me any confidence in you.

[BlueHen86]

I know it would be tricky, but the only way to get the Big East somewhat back to the old days is to bring in UCONN and Cincinnati. I don't know how they would do it to make sure both those schools stay due to their football programs (which would have to either stay in the AAC or go independent). Maybe set the exit fee astronomically high? In my universe, I target those programs and only them to get the league to 12.

There is ZERO chance in hell that the AAC lets UCONN and Cinci run back to the Big East and leave football there....ZERO.

There is a slightly better chance...like .000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% better...that they move football indy and do it that way. Problem is...there's no money in being an independent unless you are Notre Dame, anymore. Even ND is moving into a conference alignmentish with the ACC.

The new playoff format doesn't make it reasonable to be independent either without doing what ND did and aligning with a conference. The AAC/B10/B12/SEC aren't going to let UCONN/Cinci do that.


The Big East's *best* bet is to try to raid Dayton, St. Louis, VCU, etc... However, you will never convince me that the Big East is ANYTHING other than a MM conference at that point.

There is also not much chance that the Big East wants to deal with schools that divide their attention between football and basketball. The remaining Big East schools just went through that and probably don't want to deal with it again.

The only way I see UConn going back to the Big East would be if UConn football switched back to FCS. That is not likely, at least not for several years.

[BlueHen86]

There is ZERO chance in hell that the AAC lets UCONN and Cinci run back to the Big East and leave football there....ZERO.

There is a slightly better chance...like .000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% better...that they move football indy and do it that way. Problem is...there's no money in being an independent unless you are Notre Dame, anymore. Even ND is moving into a conference alignmentish with the ACC.

The new playoff format doesn't make it reasonable to be independent either without doing what ND did and aligning with a conference. The AAC/B10/B12/SEC aren't going to let UCONN/Cinci do that.


The Big East's *best* bet is to try to raid Dayton, St. Louis, VCU, etc... However, you will never convince me that the Big East is ANYTHING other than a MM conference at that point.

Fair enough. It was a dream scenario, but that's what I would like to see.

A MM conference? So the SEC and AAC are MM conferences too right?

The SEC is not, it is just having a down year, but it's still a power conference. Too soon to say regarding the AAC. If UConn and Cincinnati can remain as powerhouses and elevate the rest of the conference then the AAC will be fine. If the rest of the conference drags them down, or if they leave then the AAC is in trouble.

You are getting too worked up over the MM label. I've always considered the WCC a mid major conference, but Gonzaga has been a top team for over a decade now.

As I said before, lot of potential for the Big East. Georgetown, St Johns and DePaul should be a lot better than they are. They used to be national powers, if they can find a way to get back there the conference will be a power conference.

[GannonFan]

Fair enough. It was a dream scenario, but that's what I would like to see.

A MM conference? So the SEC and AAC are MM conferences too right?

The SEC is not, it is just having a down year, but it's still a power conference. Too soon to say regarding the AAC. If UConn and Cincinnati can remain as powerhouses and elevate the rest of the conference then the AAC will be fine. If the rest of the conference drags them down, or if they leave then the AAC is in trouble.

You are getting too worked up over the MM label. I've always considered the WCC a mid major conference, but Gonzaga has been a top team for over a decade now.

As I said before, lot of potential for the Big East. Georgetown, St Johns and DePaul should be a lot better than they are. They used to be national powers, if they can find a way to get back there the conference will be a power conference.

Georgetown, maybe, can be a national power. But the last time St. John's and DePaul were national powers was back in the early 80's when there wasn't a shot clock or a three point line, it's been that long. After three decades or so of constantly saying that they could be national powers again, people just need to accept reality that those schools, while they may get a good year here or there, are not going to be national powers consistently again. They aren't any better program-wise than a St. Joe's is - and not that that's a bad thing, but it's not Syracuse or Pitt or Louisville or most of the other programs that have left the Big East.

[vutomcat]

Then expand and get bigger. The Big East is too small right now and that hurts the top teams. There just isn't enough critical mass at the top to make it into a power conference right now. The ACC and Big 10 and others have the advantage that their top 5-6 teams routinely play each other and therefore they get that many more big time games. The Big East had nova and Creighton so they had two big time games this year. The other conferences had that many in a week. It's like how people question Wichita State - it's not because people want to hate on the Shockers, but they played in a conference where the top of the conference was pretty light other than them.

I'm not sure what the Big East can do at this point. The ACC and Big 12 get even stronger next year after raiding the AAC (which did have a nice core group of teams at the top this year, hence why the AAC was probably better than the Big East this year). Raiding the A10 would seem to be the only play they have, and I'm not sure you can get enough programs from the A10 that are routinely good enough to make a difference, and nova would still not agree to any other Philly team joining them in a conference.

I know it would be tricky, but the only way to get the Big East somewhat back to the old days is to bring in UCONN and Cincinnati. I don't know how they would do it to make sure both those schools stay due to their football programs (which would have to either stay in the AAC or go independent). Maybe set the exit fee astronomically high? In my universe, I target those programs and only them to get the league to 12.

Those are the kind of programs the Big East has to add. Even one of them would add real value. The other way to do it is through recruiting by the old guard. (Georgetown, Providence, St. Johns et al) Everything I have heard so far is that it is going well.

Time to play the games now. Let's see how this version of the Big East does compared to other conferences.

[BlueHen86]

The SEC is not, it is just having a down year, but it's still a power conference. Too soon to say regarding the AAC. If UConn and Cincinnati can remain as powerhouses and elevate the rest of the conference then the AAC will be fine. If the rest of the conference drags them down, or if they leave then the AAC is in trouble.

You are getting too worked up over the MM label. I've always considered the WCC a mid major conference, but Gonzaga has been a top team for over a decade now.

As I said before, lot of potential for the Big East. Georgetown, St Johns and DePaul should be a lot better than they are. They used to be national powers, if they can find a way to get back there the conference will be a power conference.

Georgetown, maybe, can be a national power. But the last time St. John's and DePaul were national powers was back in the early 80's when there wasn't a shot clock or a three point line, it's been that long. After three decades or so of constantly saying that they could be national powers again, people just need to accept reality that those schools, while they may get a good year here or there, are not going to be national powers consistently again. They aren't any better program-wise than a St. Joe's is - and not that that's a bad thing, but it's not Syracuse or Pitt or Louisville or most of the other programs that have left the Big East.

St John's is a hard one to figure. They used to be a power. They played in arguably the best venue, in arguably the best conference in arguably the best city; and they became irrelevant.

[tribe_pride]

It was all Lou Carnesecca. Never been the same consistently since he left.

Interestingly enough though, they were never super successful. Made the 1985 Final Four (along with Nova and Georgetown from the Big East) and Elite Eight in 1979, 1991 and 1999 (under Mike Jarvis). Never made it out of the 2nd round outside of that though since the 1953.

They have just been a very occasional NCAA or NIT team since then.

[BlueHen86]

It was all Lou Carnesecca. Never been the same consistently since he left.

I agree, it hasn't been the same since he left. Still hard to figure that the school couldn't get another great coach to step in. Maybe the school doesn't want to pay a coach. St John's should have been a destination job, like Kansas, Kentucky or UNC. The opportunity may be lost now.

[clenz]

And the first possible "make or break" situation may be coming up for a Big East school.

Apparently Buzz Williams has agreed to a deal with Va Tech according to Jeff Goodman

[Seahawks08]

Yep, my reaction when I heard that:

[clenz]

I know Marquette will make a full court press on every single coach in the country...but...Where do they go from here that will stop any momentum loss of the program?

[clenz]

Found this site while reading up on the tournament. Interesting read for Nova fans and the haters can post on too.

14 teams pass at least one champ test…but only Villanova passes them all

Posted on March 11, 2014 by ptiernan inShare.

The last 13 champs have possessed these characteristics:
■A one, two or three seed
■Member of a Power conference: ACC, Big East, Big Ten, Big 12, Pac-10 or SEC
■Either went to the previous year’s dance or have an All-American
■Led by a coach with more than five tourney trips and at least one Elite Eight run
■Averaging more than 73 points per game
■Allowing fewer than 73 points per game
■An average scoring margin of at least seven points per game
■A schedule among the 75 strongest in the country

The teams that meet all these criteria include: Villanova, Arizona, Duke, Michigan, Kansas, Wisconsin and North Carolina. Here’s the legend…and then the breakdown:
■Orange boxes show teams meeting all criteria
■Light red boxes show where teams missed the criteria
■Purple boxes show teams who don’t deserve their AP top 20 ranking according to KenPom efficiency statistics.



Of the seven teams that possess all eight basic champ credentials, Wisconsin and North Carolina are in the greatest jeopardy of losing stats champ status. The Badgers remain precariously close to the 73-point threshold. And the Tar Heels are currently projected as a four seed in Joe Lunardi’s latest bracket.

In a sign of how difficult it is to peg this year’s top teams, there are now seven squads in the AP top 20 whom efficiency numbers suggest are undeserving of their lofty rating. San Diego State, North Carolina, Iowa State, Oklahoma, St. Louis, Memphis and New Mexico don’t have KenPom Pythag values among the top 20 teams in the country. Advanced stats suggest that Tennessee (13), Ohio State (14), VCU (15), Michigan State (16), Iowa (17), Oklahoma State (19) and Pitt (20) are the better teams.

Speaking of possession-based data, there are 10 teams that pass at least one of the two efficiency champ tests. If you’ll recall, I use the KenPom’s ratings of the past champions to perform two tests:
1.I compare the raw offensive and defensive efficiency numbers (based on points-per-100-possessions) of this year’s teams with the thresholds set by the last 11 champions.
2.I compare the offensive and defensive efficiency ratings of this year’s teams with the ratings of those same champions.

Since 2003, the worst a champion has performed on offense in terms of points per 100 possessions is 112.2. That number belongs to last year’s champ Louisville. And the worst a champ has been ranked on offense is 18th (both Louisville and UConn in 2013). On defense, the most points a champ has allowed per 100 possessions is 95.4; that would be North Carolina in 2009—and they were ranked 49th in the country (of course, there offensive efficiency was through the roof).

Here are the seven teams with an OE above 112.2 and a DE below 95.4:
■Wichita State
■Florida
■Villanova
■Louisville
■Virginia
■Syracuse
■Arizona

This is the same list of teams as last year—with one exception. Kansas saw it’s DE jump up to 96.1 and thus missed out on the defensive threshold.

When it comes to efficiency test #2, the rankings comparison, there are xx teams that own top-18 offensive and top-49 defensive rankings. They are:
■Kansas
■Wichita State
■Florida
■Villanova
■Louisville
■Tennessee (say what?)
■Michigan State

Wisconsin and UCLA dropped off the efficiency ratings list and were replaced by Tennessee and Michigan State. What the heck is with these Vols? They’ve come out of nowhere to become the 13th most efficient team in the country. That’s why I’ve pegged them as an Upsetter in my Pulse Check.

Overall, between the basic, raw and ranked efficiency tests, there are 14 champion candidates. Only Villanova appears on all these lists. Here’s the breakdown, by number of lists made:
1.Villanova (BA, RAW, RK)
2.Arizona (BA, RAW)
Kansas (BA, RK)
Florida (RAW, RK)
Wichita State (RAW, RK)
Louisville (RAW, RK)
3.Duke (BA)
Wisconsin (BA)
Michigan (BA)
North Carolina (BA)
Virginia (RAW)
Syracuse (RAW)
Tennessee (RK)
Michigan State (RK)

and the only team to appear on all of the lists just got bounced on the first weekend.

Only 1 be team left...and they ate playing to get to their first s16 in a couple decades.

What do you have to say about the conference now, vu?

[BlueHen86]

Nice win for UConn tonight, spotted Villanova a 10 point lead 10 minutes in, took over after that.
Even though I thought Villanova was overrated, this was a bad draw for them. UConn should not have been a 7 seed, the selection committee did a horrible job this year. Not only was UConn underseeded, but arguably the two best teams in the field are 4 seeds.

[Seahawks08]

Fuck Uconn, fuck wright, fuck bell, fuck nova, fuck basketball, fuck life.

[grizzaholic]

So. About that Villanova team being overrated.

[grizzaholic]

Fuck Uconn, fuck wright, fuck bell, fuck nova, fuck basketball, fuck life.

It's just a game. Settle down.

[vutomcat]

Found this site while reading up on the tournament. Interesting read for Nova fans and the haters can post on too.

14 teams pass at least one champ test…but only Villanova passes them all

Posted on March 11, 2014 by ptiernan inShare.

The last 13 champs have possessed these characteristics:
■A one, two or three seed
■Member of a Power conference: ACC, Big East, Big Ten, Big 12, Pac-10 or SEC
■Either went to the previous year’s dance or have an All-American
■Led by a coach with more than five tourney trips and at least one Elite Eight run
■Averaging more than 73 points per game
■Allowing fewer than 73 points per game
■An average scoring margin of at least seven points per game
■A schedule among the 75 strongest in the country

The teams that meet all these criteria include: Villanova, Arizona, Duke, Michigan, Kansas, Wisconsin and North Carolina. Here’s the legend…and then the breakdown:
■Orange boxes show teams meeting all criteria
■Light red boxes show where teams missed the criteria
■Purple boxes show teams who don’t deserve their AP top 20 ranking according to KenPom efficiency statistics.



Of the seven teams that possess all eight basic champ credentials, Wisconsin and North Carolina are in the greatest jeopardy of losing stats champ status. The Badgers remain precariously close to the 73-point threshold. And the Tar Heels are currently projected as a four seed in Joe Lunardi’s latest bracket.

In a sign of how difficult it is to peg this year’s top teams, there are now seven squads in the AP top 20 whom efficiency numbers suggest are undeserving of their lofty rating. San Diego State, North Carolina, Iowa State, Oklahoma, St. Louis, Memphis and New Mexico don’t have KenPom Pythag values among the top 20 teams in the country. Advanced stats suggest that Tennessee (13), Ohio State (14), VCU (15), Michigan State (16), Iowa (17), Oklahoma State (19) and Pitt (20) are the better teams.

Speaking of possession-based data, there are 10 teams that pass at least one of the two efficiency champ tests. If you’ll recall, I use the KenPom’s ratings of the past champions to perform two tests:
1.I compare the raw offensive and defensive efficiency numbers (based on points-per-100-possessions) of this year’s teams with the thresholds set by the last 11 champions.
2.I compare the offensive and defensive efficiency ratings of this year’s teams with the ratings of those same champions.

Since 2003, the worst a champion has performed on offense in terms of points per 100 possessions is 112.2. That number belongs to last year’s champ Louisville. And the worst a champ has been ranked on offense is 18th (both Louisville and UConn in 2013). On defense, the most points a champ has allowed per 100 possessions is 95.4; that would be North Carolina in 2009—and they were ranked 49th in the country (of course, there offensive efficiency was through the roof).

Here are the seven teams with an OE above 112.2 and a DE below 95.4:
■Wichita State
■Florida
■Villanova
■Louisville
■Virginia
■Syracuse
■Arizona

This is the same list of teams as last year—with one exception. Kansas saw it’s DE jump up to 96.1 and thus missed out on the defensive threshold.

When it comes to efficiency test #2, the rankings comparison, there are xx teams that own top-18 offensive and top-49 defensive rankings. They are:
■Kansas
■Wichita State
■Florida
■Villanova
■Louisville
■Tennessee (say what?)
■Michigan State

Wisconsin and UCLA dropped off the efficiency ratings list and were replaced by Tennessee and Michigan State. What the heck is with these Vols? They’ve come out of nowhere to become the 13th most efficient team in the country. That’s why I’ve pegged them as an Upsetter in my Pulse Check.

Overall, between the basic, raw and ranked efficiency tests, there are 14 champion candidates. Only Villanova appears on all these lists. Here’s the breakdown, by number of lists made:
1.Villanova (BA, RAW, RK)
2.Arizona (BA, RAW)
Kansas (BA, RK)
Florida (RAW, RK)
Wichita State (RAW, RK)
Louisville (RAW, RK)
3.Duke (BA)
Wisconsin (BA)
Michigan (BA)
North Carolina (BA)
Virginia (RAW)
Syracuse (RAW)
Tennessee (RK)
Michigan State (RK)

and the only team to appear on all of the lists just got bounced on the first weekend.

Only 1 be team left...and they ate playing to get to their first s16 in a couple decades.

What do you have to say about the conference now, vu?

The tourney results for the Big East have been disappointing. Some of the other major conferences did poorly also but who cares about them. I am a Blue Jay fan today and they are carrying the banner for now. Hoping you were not right about the late season swoon.

I am disappointed that Buzz left a historic program like Marquette for the likes of a n'er do well like Va. Tech. It wasn't even about the money since Marquette spends more on the program and he was set to make close to 4 million. The Big East has work to do.

[BlueHen86]

Fuck Uconn, fuck wright, fuck bell, fuck nova, fuck basketball, fuck life.

You forgot to say f**k the Big East, and more importantly f**k the RPI. Any metric that puts the Big East ahead of the ACC should be immediately discarded.

[∞∞∞]

And so all that's left is Creighton to defend the Big East's honor.

Damn, how much fun that league was to watch during March Madness...

[clenz]

So, other than Creighton (who has yet to play their round of 32 game) can someone point out how wrong I've been on the Big East this year?

I'll wait for someone to point out how wrong I've been.














Chances are I'll be waiting a while. I'll also leave vu to drink his sorrows away without pulling all of the wrongness back that he spewed.