THE BIG EAST CONFERENCE

[tribe_pride]

You were saying the same thing last year and no team made it to the round of 16. I am a Big East fan but let's wait until the tournament before we are saying they are that great.

The only OOC ranked teams that those 8 Big East teams have beaten are VCU (by Villanova), UNC (by Butler), and Notre Dame (by Providence). It's tough to say that the conference is incredible when it only has 3 OOC top 25 wins and 3 top 25 teams - Villanova (who seems to be among the top teams in the country), Seton Hall (though their loss this past week may drop them out), and St. Johns (who will also drop out after 3 straight losses). It's possible they may only have 1 team in the top 25 after this week since Butler who was just on the outside of the top 25 also lost this week.

While the Big East has a lot of middle depth which could get them a number of teams in the tournament, only Nova is highly seeded in bracketology (2 seed). The other 7 are 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, 11 which shows the teams are not bad but not even expected to get to the 2nd weekend. If they get a couple of teams in the 2nd weekend, that will show that the conference as a whole is impressive but as of now, only Nova seems to be a top team in the Big East.

[vutomcat]

You were saying the same thing last year and no team made it to the round of 16. I am a Big East fan but let's wait until the tournament before we are saying they are that great.

The only OOC ranked teams that those 8 Big East teams have beaten are VCU (by Villanova), UNC (by Butler), and Notre Dame (by Providence). It's tough to say that the conference is incredible when it only has 3 OOC top 25 wins and 3 top 25 teams - Villanova (who seems to be among the top teams in the country), Seton Hall (though their loss this past week may drop them out), and St. Johns (who will also drop out after 3 straight losses). It's possible they may only have 1 team in the top 25 after this week since Butler who was just on the outside of the top 25 also lost this week.

While the Big East has a lot of middle depth which could get them a number of teams in the tournament, only Nova is highly seeded in bracketology (2 seed). The other 7 are 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, 11 which shows the teams are not bad but not even expected to get to the 2nd weekend. If they get a couple of teams in the 2nd weekend, that will show that the conference as a whole is impressive but as of now, only Nova seems to be a top team in the Big East.

if you take 8 of the top 10 teams in the country (AP) and leave Ky and UVA out, they only have 5 wins over top 25 teams. So, the Big East matches up with most of the top teams in the country.

Utah, Texas and Gonzaga have zero wins over top 25 teams. Az., Nova, Louisville, Duke, Wisconsin each have one.

[tribe_pride]

Right but I was looking at conferences as a whole and not individual teams. As I said, the conference as a whole is questionable with regards to being able to the amount of teams that are very good especially considering the Big East's very poor performance in the tournament last year. It may be there, but they haven't proven themselves yet.

And why did you leave out Kentucky and UVA? Because they take away from your argument? By the way, Kentucky has beaten 4 and UVA has beaten 2 OOC ranked teams from what I saw.

[Seahawks08]

You were saying the same thing last year and no team made it to the round of 16. I am a Big East fan but let's wait until the tournament before we are saying they are that great.

The only OOC ranked teams that those 8 Big East teams have beaten are VCU (by Villanova), UNC (by Butler), and Notre Dame (by Providence). It's tough to say that the conference is incredible when it only has 3 OOC top 25 wins and 3 top 25 teams - Villanova (who seems to be among the top teams in the country), Seton Hall (though their loss this past week may drop them out), and St. Johns (who will also drop out after 3 straight losses). It's possible they may only have 1 team in the top 25 after this week since Butler who was just on the outside of the top 25 also lost this week.

While the Big East has a lot of middle depth which could get them a number of teams in the tournament, only Nova is highly seeded in bracketology (2 seed). The other 7 are 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, 11 which shows the teams are not bad but not even expected to get to the 2nd weekend. If they get a couple of teams in the 2nd weekend, that will show that the conference as a whole is impressive but as of now, only Nova seems to be a top team in the Big East.

You know you can't take the current top 25 and argue resumes. It has to be the top 25 during each individual game. Thus, Nova has beaten OOC ranked opponents in VCU, Michigan, and Iliinois. I don't remember the other BE teams and who they beat but I would presume it's more than UNC and ND.

[tribe_pride]

You were saying the same thing last year and no team made it to the round of 16. I am a Big East fan but let's wait until the tournament before we are saying they are that great.

The only OOC ranked teams that those 8 Big East teams have beaten are VCU (by Villanova), UNC (by Butler), and Notre Dame (by Providence). It's tough to say that the conference is incredible when it only has 3 OOC top 25 wins and 3 top 25 teams - Villanova (who seems to be among the top teams in the country), Seton Hall (though their loss this past week may drop them out), and St. Johns (who will also drop out after 3 straight losses). It's possible they may only have 1 team in the top 25 after this week since Butler who was just on the outside of the top 25 also lost this week.

While the Big East has a lot of middle depth which could get them a number of teams in the tournament, only Nova is highly seeded in bracketology (2 seed). The other 7 are 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, 11 which shows the teams are not bad but not even expected to get to the 2nd weekend. If they get a couple of teams in the 2nd weekend, that will show that the conference as a whole is impressive but as of now, only Nova seems to be a top team in the Big East.

You know you can't take the current top 25 and argue resumes. It has to be the top 25 during each individual game. Thus, Nova has beaten OOC ranked opponents in VCU, Michigan, and Iliinois. I don't remember the other BE teams and who they beat but I would presume it's more than UNC and ND.

I disagree especially in the first 10 games of a season where teams can be very misranked. Michigan is currently 10-6 and their losses currently include NJIT while Illinois was not ranked (at least AP) when they played them and is 11-6. If Michigan suffered an injury since their game to one of their top players, that is the only way I can see an exception being made.

[vutomcat]

You know you can't take the current top 25 and argue resumes. It has to be the top 25 during each individual game. Thus, Nova has beaten OOC ranked opponents in VCU, Michigan, and Iliinois. I don't remember the other BE teams and who they beat but I would presume it's more than UNC and ND.

I disagree especially in the first 10 games of a season where teams can be very misranked. Michigan is currently 10-6 and their losses currently include NJIT while Illinois was not ranked (at least AP) when they played them and is 11-6. If Michigan suffered an injury since their game to one of their top players, that is the only way I can see an exception being made.

I used the top 10 because you were trying to diminish what the Big East did out of conference which is by most independent sources the best or second best of any conference.

I thought maybe if I showed you what the Big East had accomplished OOC wasn't far from what the top 10 teams in the country had accomplished OOC it would make it clear to you how well they did. Their OOC record was excellent, period, end of story.

[tribe_pride]

In reality, we are making 2 different arguments.

What I am trying to say is that the Big East doesn't have a lot of top end teams who will advance in the tourney when it matters. They have Villanova (who seem to give their fans a heart attack in many games with the way they play the first half) and that is about it.

The Big East then has a lot of middle teams that have a chance to make the tournament and only 3 bad ones. Most conferences have a higher percentage of bad teams and that effects their RPI strength. The ACC is rated behind the Big East but I think few will doubt that the top end of the ACC is better than the overall top of the Big East. The difference is that 7 of the ACC teams have expected RPI ranks of 95 or worse. The top 4 in the ACC though have expected ranks in the top 15.

Don't get me wrong, the SEC and Pac 12 are probably worse than the Big East in terms of depth even in the middle range, but it's tough to see the Big East getting more than 1 team in to the 2nd weekend of Tournament play. They may get a 2nd and I'd be happy to be wrong but we will see. Last year, they also looked good after the OOC schedule was over but didn't in March.

[vutomcat]

In reality, we are making 2 different arguments.

What I am trying to say is that the Big East doesn't have a lot of top end teams who will advance in the tourney when it matters. They have Villanova (who seem to give their fans a heart attack in many games with the way they play the first half) and that is about it.

The Big East then has a lot of middle teams that have a chance to make the tournament and only 3 bad ones. Most conferences have a higher percentage of bad teams and that effects their RPI strength. The ACC is rated behind the Big East but I think few will doubt that the top end of the ACC is better than the overall top of the Big East. The difference is that 7 of the ACC teams have expected RPI ranks of 95 or worse. The top 4 in the ACC though have expected ranks in the top 15.

Don't get me wrong, the SEC and Pac 12 are probably worse than the Big East in terms of depth even in the middle range, but it's tough to see the Big East getting more than 1 team in to the 2nd weekend of Tournament play. They may get a 2nd and I'd be happy to be wrong but we will see. Last year, they also looked good after the OOC schedule was over but didn't in March.

Yeah, I agree with almost all of this. As deep as they are I wouldn't be surprised if 3 of them made it to the second week though.

Maybe i am just a glass half full guy. This has been a pleasant surprise after last year's disappointment in the latter part of the year.

[GannonFan]

Same problem as last year for the Big East - a super, single team in villanova (same as last year) and then a bunch of hanger-ons. nova won't play another top 25 team outside of a rematch against Seton Hall (assuming they are still ranked by then) and won't play a team in the top 15 until the tournament. Meanwhile, teams in the ACC has 5 teams in the top 15 and the Big 12 has 7 teams in the top 25. Still going to see the other Big East teams end up with tough seeds come tourney time (the 7-11 range) and that means playing the big boys in the second game, assuming they get through to there.

[vutomcat]

Same problem as last year for the Big East - a super, single team in villanova (same as last year) and then a bunch of hanger-ons. nova won't play another top 25 team outside of a rematch against Seton Hall (assuming they are still ranked by then) and won't play a team in the top 15 until the tournament. Meanwhile, teams in the ACC has 5 teams in the top 15 and the Big 12 has 7 teams in the top 25. Still going to see the other Big East teams end up with tough seeds come tourney time (the 7-11 range) and that means playing the big boys in the second game, assuming they get through to there.

Similar, not the same. This is a much improved conference. Last year 4 tourney teams, and this year it will most likely be 6 or even 7.

Notre Dame, Duke and Louisville schedule cup cakes galore. KenPom has their SOS at 346, 166 and 232 respectively. I hardly think 4 tough games are going to prepare them bettter than a Big East schedule where you are facing a top 40 team 80% of the time. Feasting on the bottom of the ACC won't do it either.

[Seahawks08]

Same problem as last year for the Big East - a super, single team in villanova (same as last year) and then a bunch of hanger-ons. nova won't play another top 25 team outside of a rematch against Seton Hall (assuming they are still ranked by then) and won't play a team in the top 15 until the tournament. Meanwhile, teams in the ACC has 5 teams in the top 15 and the Big 12 has 7 teams in the top 25. Still going to see the other Big East teams end up with tough seeds come tourney time (the 7-11 range) and that means playing the big boys in the second game, assuming they get through to there.

Depends how you determine a top 25 team. Since Nova is playing Xavier tonight, which is currently ranked 25th by kenpom.

[clenz]

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH at sCUm.

Funny thing is there is a lot of rumors out there that the vast majority of people at the university aren't real happy about the move. Sounds like the president wanted the move and forced it on everyone.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

[tribe_pride]

Same problem as last year for the Big East - a super, single team in villanova (same as last year) and then a bunch of hanger-ons. nova won't play another top 25 team outside of a rematch against Seton Hall (assuming they are still ranked by then) and won't play a team in the top 15 until the tournament. Meanwhile, teams in the ACC has 5 teams in the top 15 and the Big 12 has 7 teams in the top 25. Still going to see the other Big East teams end up with tough seeds come tourney time (the 7-11 range) and that means playing the big boys in the second game, assuming they get through to there.

Depends how you determine a top 25 team. Since Nova is playing Xavier tonight, which is currently ranked 25th by kenpom.

Then you have to take Seton Hall out because they are not top 25 in KenPom. Seton Hall also lost yesterday to Butler so I see them dropping out of the AP top 25 this week anyway having lost 2 of 3 (unless a number of other schools ranked between 22-30 lose as well).

[Seahawks08]

Depends how you determine a top 25 team. Since Nova is playing Xavier tonight, which is currently ranked 25th by kenpom.

Then you have to take Seton Hall out because they are not top 25 in KenPom. Seton Hall also lost yesterday to Butler so I see them dropping out of the AP top 25 this week anyway having lost 2 of 3 (unless a number of other schools ranked between 22-30 lose as well).

Ha, I saw that. That's why the more i look at college basketball rankings, the more subjective it gets. People see what they want to see. Hell, someone voting in the AP poll still had Arizona ranked 5th after they lost to Oregon State this week.

[clenz]

Then you have to take Seton Hall out because they are not top 25 in KenPom. Seton Hall also lost yesterday to Butler so I see them dropping out of the AP top 25 this week anyway having lost 2 of 3 (unless a number of other schools ranked between 22-30 lose as well).

Ha, I saw that. That's why the more i look at college basketball rankings, the more subjective it gets. People see what they want to see. Hell, someone voting in the AP poll still had Arizona ranked 5th after they lost to Oregon State this week.

Where should they fall too?

One loss, probably on a bad night and being caught on it, doesn't all of a sudden make you a worse team

[Seahawks08]

Ha, I saw that. That's why the more i look at college basketball rankings, the more subjective it gets. People see what they want to see. Hell, someone voting in the AP poll still had Arizona ranked 5th after they lost to Oregon State this week.

Where should they fall too?

One loss, probably on a bad night and being caught on it, doesn't all of a sudden make you a worse team

10th AP Poll, 9th coaches poll, 9th kenpom, and 11th rpi. So 9th or 10th is correct.

[clenz]

Where should they fall too?

One loss, probably on a bad night and being caught on it, doesn't all of a sudden make you a worse team

10th AP Poll, 9th coaches poll, 9th kenpom, and 11th rpi. So 9th or 10th is correct.

So that one game meant they were no longer one of the 5 best teams? One game out of 30 has that much pull? You're okay with that?

[Seahawks08]

10th AP Poll, 9th coaches poll, 9th kenpom, and 11th rpi. So 9th or 10th is correct.

So that one game meant they were no longer one of the 5 best teams? One game out of 30 has that much pull? You're okay with that?

If it was just that loss, no. But they lost to a mediocre UNLV team and that has to count for something. 14-2 record is still excellent but when it comes to poll rankings, it's what have you done for me lately. The same thing is going to happen to Duke this week after its loss against Miami.

[dbackjon]

10th AP Poll, 9th coaches poll, 9th kenpom, and 11th rpi. So 9th or 10th is correct.

So that one game meant they were no longer one of the 5 best teams? One game out of 30 has that much pull? You're okay with that?

the good thing about College Basketball is that rankings are very unimportant in the long run.

Arizona wins out, they are still a #1 or #2 seed at worst. And really, there is little difference between the two seeds, other than pride.

[clenz]

So that one game meant they were no longer one of the 5 best teams? One game out of 30 has that much pull? You're okay with that?

the good thing about College Basketball is that rankings are very unimportant in the long run.

Arizona wins out, they are still a #1 or #2 seed at worst. And really, there is little difference between the two seeds, other than pride.

Isn't that admitting it's a giant overreaction by saying they are still likely 1 seed but yet should be dropped thatbfqr because of one loss?

[dbackjon]

the good thing about College Basketball is that rankings are very unimportant in the long run.

Arizona wins out, they are still a #1 or #2 seed at worst. And really, there is little difference between the two seeds, other than pride.

Isn't that admitting it's a giant overreaction by saying they are still likely 1 seed but yet should be dropped thatbfqr because of one loss?

I said #1 or #2. which means they could be #8. And if they win out.


Arizona lost first to the RPI #121. Now they lost to the #76 RPI team. voters didn't penalize them too much for the first loss. Second loss was a cumulative effect.

Plus, they only dropped THREE spots. They were #7 in the AP poll last week, #10 this week.

Don't you think you are over-reacting?

[clenz]

I don't think Creighton would win more than 4 or 5 MVC games this season.

They are bad.

Not one of their players would start at UNI or WSU. They might have 1..maybe 2...starters at Indiana State, Loyola, Illinois State, Evansville and Missouri State.

Their starters would struggle to see any real bench minutes at UNI or WSU and would be average role players at the others listed.

Essentially they'd be SIU, Drake or Bradley....the bottom 3 of the conference.

[clenz]

Sorry...

I don't give a damn about the Big East anymore. Just sCUm.


I don't think Greg Mc$ recruited while Doug was on campus. They have a team full of 6th and 7th men. He recruits size, but not post size. He wants 6'10 3 point shooters.

There is almost zero athleticism on this Creighton team, sans Chattman

[clenz]

FWIW...Marquette is every bit as pitiful to watch

[Seahawks08]

Sorry...

I don't give a damn about the Big East anymore. Just sCUm.


I don't think Greg Mc$ recruited while Doug was on campus. They have a team full of 6th and 7th men. He recruits size, but not post size. He wants 6'10 3 point shooters.

There is almost zero athleticism on this Creighton team, sans Chattman

I enjoy your rants and learn a lot from them since no one else is talking about Creighton. So keep 'em coming!