2018 World Cup

[clenz]

The bolded part is important. Just in the last 2-3 years there's been a real big swell of kids participating in the academies that the MLS clubs have. That means you have kids practicing and playing for those academies, at no charge, while then also playing for their home soccer club. So they get regular training and access to very good coaches and it doesn't cost them a dime. And like I said, it's only just been getting off the ground recently and it's already seeing a huge response in terms of the number of kids doing it and the results of the teams that form out of those academies. That's the kind of stuff that will increase the quality of players being developed domestically over the next 10 years.

I'm going to try to convince my son's mother to look into getting him into the Union's futures program in three years. Since they live in the region. That's also why I'm hopeful that MLS can gain a foothold in the southeast, specifically Miami. But also with Orlando City and Atlanta coming on board over the next couple seasons.

MLS is finally figuring it out, its not about wins and losses, its about growing the sport in the US. The Big 4 don't need to worry about that because the market is saturated by their leagues already.

I'm hopeful that one day the talk will not be about one guy being left off the roster (Donovan), but how several players were left off the roster because of how deep the USMNT is across the board. I want to see OUR B-team playing in tournaments and being successful.

[clenz]

http://prosoccertalk.nbcsports.com/2014 ... &utm_tags=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

“In Europe the players speak a lot to come to play in America,” Kaka said. “To other players I think I can show that the American league is a nice place to play.”

One nice aspect of Orlando City is the money although the team and Kaka are mum as to how much the 32-year-old is being paid. “Yes, they’re paying me good. I had to say this. But I had another opportunity to earn more than they are paying me here. So my decision is not about money.”

Instead, Kaka wants to be part of something. A movement. The growth of a league, one which he believes can become one of the five biggest in the world and therefore attract more international talent. His goal is nothing short of a dream that many soccer fans hold close to their hearts, despite dissenters: “My expectation is that soccer is going to be the first sport in America”.

[89Hen]

How did we do in the World Cup that year? Should be easy for you to find since you feel that World Cups are all that matter. Oh, period.

Pretty much the same as the team did in 2006.

[89Hen]

Also, since I know you are still learning about the game, what's going on in Brazil right now is the "World Cup Finals." That's what you're watching. I know it's been mentioned already by BDK that the average fan like yourselves don't follow the qualifiers or care about them, but those are matches that mean something.

Hence why I mentioned them above and I actually miss very few qualifiers on TV... I maybe watch 12-13 of the 16 games. That's why I put myself in the top 10% of the "masses".

[UNI88]

Good read on the problems with US soccer.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... ystem.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The bolded part is important. Just in the last 2-3 years there's been a real big swell of kids participating in the academies that the MLS clubs have. That means you have kids practicing and playing for those academies, at no charge, while then also playing for their home soccer club. So they get regular training and access to very good coaches and it doesn't cost them a dime. And like I said, it's only just been getting off the ground recently and it's already seeing a huge response in terms of the number of kids doing it and the results of the teams that form out of those academies. That's the kind of stuff that will increase the quality of players being developed domestically over the next 10 years.

It goes beyond the academies to the clubs as well. In the Chicago area, the premier clubs give scholarships to the great players who can't afford to pay the club fees. The Chicago Fire Juniors, Chicago Magic, Chicago Sockers, etc. either didn't exist 20 years ago or have evolved to the point where the level of coaching and play is considerably higher than it was then. I would imagine that it is the same in other cities as well. Youth soccer is much more advanced in the USA and the quality of play and success of the MNT will reflect those improvements in the future.

[GannonFan]

The bolded part is important. Just in the last 2-3 years there's been a real big swell of kids participating in the academies that the MLS clubs have. That means you have kids practicing and playing for those academies, at no charge, while then also playing for their home soccer club. So they get regular training and access to very good coaches and it doesn't cost them a dime. And like I said, it's only just been getting off the ground recently and it's already seeing a huge response in terms of the number of kids doing it and the results of the teams that form out of those academies. That's the kind of stuff that will increase the quality of players being developed domestically over the next 10 years.

It goes beyond the academies to the clubs as well. In the Chicago area, the premier clubs give scholarships to the great players who can't afford to pay the club fees. The Chicago Fire Juniors, Chicago Magic, Chicago Sockers, etc. either didn't exist 20 years ago or have evolved to the point where the level of coaching and play is considerably higher than it was then. I would imagine that it is the same in other cities as well. Youth soccer is much more advanced in the USA and the quality of play and success of the MNT will reflect those improvements in the future.

Same in the Philly area here too with the aforementioned Philly Union youth programs. Same is true up in New York with the Red Bulls and now with the Man City affiliate second New York team that will start next year.

Yedlin, the kid who came on to play so well in both the Portugal and Belgium games, is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of home grown, MLS players who are coming up. And that's a kid who never would've been a football player (too light) or basketball player (too short) anyway.

[JMU DJ]

That's why I put myself in the top 10% of the "masses".

I thought you were just making a self deprecating fat joke

[BDKJMU]

That qualifying sh*t matters to the hardcore soccer fans, but none of it matters to the masses in the US who watch a few US games every 4 years. Here's what they see:
-the team made it the same distance they made it in 1994 and 2010.
-they didn't make it as far as they did in 2002.

The masses in the US aren't going to recognize a huge improvement until the team makes it further than has before, and that is the semis. All this arguement about improvement based on qualifying games versus a bunch of 2nd-3rd world Central American countries is pissing in the wind vis a vi the masses. Make the qtrs in 2018, and to the masses it's "Well, they're saying we already did that way back in 2002." And the masses in the US aren't going to recognize the US as a world power until we win one, or at least make the final. And that might or might not happen in our lifetime.

You just changed what the argument is about with your above comments. Nobody was arguing that the masses who don't follow soccer would look at the results of 1994 and 2010/2014 and make a certain comparison.

The argument that is being made is that the US team is a stronger team by a lot now than they were in 1994. If you look at the facts that have been laid out by those arguing that my previous statement is true, you will see that the argument is correct. The USMNT has improved a ton since 1994 as shown by the huge collection of results. When you look at individual games or only a small group of 3-5 games especially when the games are against different teams, you can never make a good statistical comparison. That is why looking at a larger range is important.

I'm not arguing it hasn't improved, and my recognition of that is only because of this board. But the non soccer fan MASSES who only watch a handful of games every 4 years aren't going to see or pay attention to the qualifying facts & stats showing the improvement. The masses need something simple to quantify. And that is we made it the same distance as 1994 and 2010, and not as far as 02'. For the non soccer fan masses to recognize a big improvement, they're going to need to see the US team making it further than before like he semis.

Heck, I'm part of the non soccer fan masses and I would have seen no improvement since 94' if I hadn't been on this board for you guys to point out.

[clenz]

You aren't the demographic that soccer (domestically or internationally) that is trying to be gained as a fan. No one really gives a flying fuck crotchety old racist fucks don't like the sport.

The younger generations are falling in love with the sport in record numbers. That's who they are aiming at.

[BDKJMU]

Friendlies don't mean ****. The ONLY games that matter are WC games period.

Wait, I thought you were one of the masses?

Friendlies with full squads do matter, no matter how many times you try to tell yourself they don't.In addition to things that matter, there's also World Cup qualifiers, there's qualifying for the Olympics and the Olympics itself (the Olympics are restricted to younger players, with some exceptions, but it's a good barometer of where the national team is headed), there's the CONCACAF Gold Cup which comes up next year - the winner goes on to the Confederations Cup in 2017 which is the pre-eminent tournament in the runup to the next World Cup, and there's also the Copa America Centenario in 2016, which the US is hosting, that will see a major 16 team tournament (all 10 South American sides and then 6 CONCACAF teams, two of which are automatically the US and Mexico). But like you said, you're part of the masses and you try to ignore the other stuff that matters as well.

They don't matter to the non soccer fan MASSES. He should have included the word masses in his statement.

[BDKJMU]

Also, since I know you are still learning about the game, what's going on in Brazil right now is the "World Cup Finals." That's what you're watching. I know it's been mentioned already by BDK that the average fan like yourselves don't follow the qualifiers or care about them, but those are matches that mean something.

Hence why I mentioned them above and I actually miss very few qualifiers on TV... I maybe watch 12-13 of the 16 games. That's why I put myself in the top 10% of the "masses".

More like top 1%. How many non soccer fans watch 12-13 of 16 qualifiers, or any for that matter? (I have no idea how many qualifiers there are, but I'll take your word for it).

[tribe_pride]

You just changed what the argument is about with your above comments. Nobody was arguing that the masses who don't follow soccer would look at the results of 1994 and 2010/2014 and make a certain comparison.

The argument that is being made is that the US team is a stronger team by a lot now than they were in 1994. If you look at the facts that have been laid out by those arguing that my previous statement is true, you will see that the argument is correct. The USMNT has improved a ton since 1994 as shown by the huge collection of results. When you look at individual games or only a small group of 3-5 games especially when the games are against different teams, you can never make a good statistical comparison. That is why looking at a larger range is important.

I'm not arguing it hasn't improved, and my recognition of that is only because of this board. But the non soccer fan MASSES who only watch a handful of games every 4 years aren't going to see or pay attention to the qualifying facts & stats showing the improvement. The masses need something simple to quantify. And that is we made it the same distance as 1994 and 2010, and not as far as 02'. For the non soccer fan masses to recognize a big improvement, they're going to need to see the US team making it further than before like he semis.

Heck, I'm part of the non soccer fan masses and I would have seen no improvement since 94' if I hadn't been on this board for you guys to point out.

So I will go back to what I said before. You changed what the argument is about with your above comments. Nobody was arguing that the masses who don't follow soccer would look at the results of 1994 and 2010/2014 and make a certain comparison. The argument that is being made is that the US team is a stronger team by a lot now than they were in 1994.

[BDKJMU]

I'm not arguing it hasn't improved, and my recognition of that is only because of this board. But the non soccer fan MASSES who only watch a handful of games every 4 years aren't going to see or pay attention to the qualifying facts & stats showing the improvement. The masses need something simple to quantify. And that is we made it the same distance as 1994 and 2010, and not as far as 02'. For the non soccer fan masses to recognize a big improvement, they're going to need to see the US team making it further than before like he semis.

Heck, I'm part of the non soccer fan masses and I would have seen no improvement since 94' if I hadn't been on this board for you guys to point out.

So I will go back to what I said before. You changed what the argument is about with your above comments. Nobody was arguing that the masses who don't follow soccer would look at the results of 1994 and 2010/2014 and make a certain comparison. The argument that is being made is that the US team is a stronger team by a lot now than they were in 1994.

Ok.

[Ibanez]

Tim Howard will have moved on to Save America from itself.

[89Hen]

The argument that is being made is that the US team is a stronger team by a lot now than they were in 1994.

Now it's only "a lot"? That's a bit weaker than "light years" and "throttle".

[89Hen]

You aren't the demographic that soccer (domestically or internationally) that is trying to be gained as a fan. No one really gives a flying fuck crotchety old racist fucks don't like the sport.

The younger generations are falling in love with the sport in record numbers. That's who they are aiming at.

Internationally? Thought we were talking about the US. And they need to be gaining everywhere. A bunch of dorky hipsters isn't going to have the staying power they need to make and sustain big advances in the US.

[clenz]

You aren't the demographic that soccer (domestically or internationally) that is trying to be gained as a fan. No one really gives a flying fuck crotchety old racist fucks don't like the sport.

The younger generations are falling in love with the sport in record numbers. That's who they are aiming at.

Internationally? Thought we were talking about the US. And they need to be gaining everywhere. A bunch of dorky hipsters isn't going to have the staying power they need to make and sustain big advances in the US.

I am talking about domestically

[89Hen]

Internationally? Thought we were talking about the US. And they need to be gaining everywhere. A bunch of dorky hipsters isn't going to have the staying power they need to make and sustain big advances in the US.

I am talking about domestically

Domestically around the world?

[DSUrocks07]

You aren't the demographic that soccer (domestically or internationally) that is trying to be gained as a fan. No one really gives a flying **** crotchety old racist **** don't like the sport.

The younger generations are falling in love with the sport in record numbers. That's who they are aiming at.

Internationally? Thought we were talking about the US. And they need to be gaining everywhere. A bunch of dorky hipsters isn't going to have the staying power they need to make and sustain big advances in the US.

It will when those "dorky hipsters" grow up to be crotchety old racist **** who actually enjoy soccer.

What's with this instant gratification that everyone is obsessed with these days? The (modern) NFL has been around since the 1960s, MLB has been around since the 1800s. MLS has only been around for 20 years.

[89Hen]

What's with this instant gratification that everyone is obsessed with these days? The (modern) NFL has been around since the 1960s, MLB has been around since the 1800s. MLS has only been around for 20 years.

Not sure who you're asking Rocks. The folks that think the MLS will continue to grow and grow, or those of us that remember the NASL that came and went and are skeptical that MLS will continue to grow.

Seemed like not long ago all the hipsters were into poker. You literally couldn't turn on the TV without finding a channel or two with poker on it. I still see it once in a while on some strange channel, but that fad seems to have faded. Soccer is a lot more than a fad, but it's popularity will ebb and flow in this country. Doesn't seem like any of the soccer guys here are willing to admit there is a chance interest is at or close to its peak in the US. They rely on calling anyone who does "crotchety old men". Sad.

[DSUrocks07]

What's with this instant gratification that everyone is obsessed with these days? The (modern) NFL has been around since the 1960s, MLB has been around since the 1800s. MLS has only been around for 20 years.

Not sure who you're asking Rocks. The folks that think the MLS will continue to grow and grow, or those of us that remember the NASL that came and went and are skeptical that MLS will continue to grow.

Seemed like not long ago all the hipsters were into poker. You literally couldn't turn on the TV without finding a channel or two with poker on it. I still see it once in a while on some strange channel, but that fad seems to have faded. Soccer is a lot more than a fad, but it's popularity will ebb and flow in this country. Doesn't seem like any of the soccer guys here are willing to admit there is a chance interest is at or close to its peak in the US. They rely on calling anyone who does "crotchety old men". Sad.

All pro sports go through the same ebbs and flows. Look at NASCAR, hockey, golf and even MLB to an extent. You could argue that all of those sports peaked 10-15 years ago. Of course there is a chance that soccer fandom in the US can fade, but to say that there's no chance at all to gain in popularity is really shortsighted in reference to the growth of other sports in this country.

[GannonFan]

What's with this instant gratification that everyone is obsessed with these days? The (modern) NFL has been around since the 1960s, MLB has been around since the 1800s. MLS has only been around for 20 years.

Not sure who you're asking Rocks. The folks that think the MLS will continue to grow and grow, or those of us that remember the NASL that came and went and are skeptical that MLS will continue to grow.

Seemed like not long ago all the hipsters were into poker. You literally couldn't turn on the TV without finding a channel or two with poker on it. I still see it once in a while on some strange channel, but that fad seems to have faded. Soccer is a lot more than a fad, but it's popularity will ebb and flow in this country. Doesn't seem like any of the soccer guys here are willing to admit there is a chance interest is at or close to its peak in the US. They rely on calling anyone who does "crotchety old men". Sad.

Comparing the NASL in the late 70's to soccer and MLS today is just looking at two entirely different scenarios. The NASL and the boom they had was entirely due to one player and one club - Pele and the Cosmos. Everything that the NASL did wrong you're now seeing the MLS make sure they don't repeat. The NASL failed because of rapid expansion, careless expansion in terms of who they took on in terms of owners, playing in stadium way too big for soccer, and an over-reliance on foreign players. The MLS does almost all of those things differently - expansion has been slow and measured - we're like 20 years into MLS and they are just getting to the size that the NASL was at 5 years into that league's life. Ownership is also vastly different due to the structure MLS has in place to make it more league-run than individually run. As part of the slow but steady growth method, you don't have just any tom, dick, or harry coming in and getting a franchise. The building of soccer-specific stadiums has been a huge benefit, both in terms of limiting capacity while also creating a much better environment (as for someone who has seen games in RFK and also PPL Park, I can attest to the difference). And the NASL came around at a time when there weren't young American players to fill its ranks. Soccer in the 1950's as a youth sport was non-existent, so there was no stable of players to pick from. Fast forward 30-40 years from the NASL hey-days and youth soccer in the US has had huge numbers for those past 30 years and now there are domestic players who can fill the league, and it's only getting better with the academy set-up most MLS teams have now.

Harkening back to the NASL failing is all fine and well, but it doesn't have much significance to the present day. It was a unique example that, due to very specific reasons, failed. But the current model has very few, if any, of those similarities and hence why today's version has been growing steadily for a longer period of time.

Heck, no one argues that the NFL can't succeed in America because the USFL failed. Most people recognize the things that caused that to fail.

[89Hen]

but to say that there's no chance at all to gain in popularity is really shortsighted in reference to the growth of other sports in this country.

Who said that?

[89Hen]

Heck, no one argues that the NFL can't succeed in America because the USFL failed.

That was a Z analogy if I've ever seen one.

[GannonFan]

Heck, no one argues that the NFL can't succeed in America because the USFL failed.

That was a Z analogy if I've ever seen one.

Eh, your analogy to poker wasn't any better but I let that slide.