US SOCCER

[YoUDeeMan]

In 1994 18% of NHL players were from the US. Last year the number was 25%. I used 1994 because that's when the US hosted the World Cup. If you to back to the early 80's the number was below 12%. Hockey development in the US has skyrocketed while soccer development hasn't moved. The US average world ranking since FIFA started doing them is 19. Today they rank 31.

Although next month, we will be right back around 19 (maybe slightly worse) after the Copa and Euro results are posted. That 19 also includes when we were extremely misranked at around 7 or 8 in the world at one point. FIFA rankings are not very good.

So, what you are saying is that soccer's FIFA rankings are about as good as the computers that we use to rank college football teams.

[GannonFan]

The US overall as a whole (excluding the Argentina raping this week) does look better than say 20 years ago, even 10 years ago

No, it doesn't. That's the point. I would say 2002-09 was the pinnacle of US soccer, when it looked like we were putting El Tri behind us for good and Clenzy mentioned close ones, there's nothing closer than losing 1-0 to finalist Germany on a hand ball that wasn't called and then moving on the finals of the Confederations Cup beating world #1 Spain in the semis. All downhill since then.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bg3psAYfOv8[/youtube]

Nah, you're being too dramatic, there's always ebbs and flows to these things. Heck, the Dutch didn't even qualify for the Euro's this summer and they were just World Cup runner-ups in 2010 - is it all downhill for them? The MLS academies that are in place now are a significant improvement in the development of youth soccer versus the parochial setup that was in place before. None of those academies have even graduated kids yet who have gone all the way through them so we haven't even seen the fruits of that yet on the national level. I'm not saying we're going to win the World Cup, maybe ever, but we're not on a perpetual downward slope either.

[GannonFan]

Although next month, we will be right back around 19 (maybe slightly worse) after the Copa and Euro results are posted. That 19 also includes when we were extremely misranked at around 7 or 8 in the world at one point. FIFA rankings are not very good.

So, what you are saying is that soccer's FIFA rankings are about as good as the computers that we use to rank college football teams.

Our college football rankings look like pure science versus the crap FIFA puts out. It's hard to have an organization more corrupt and more dysfunctional than FIFA.

[clenz]

So, what you are saying is that soccer's FIFA rankings are about as good as the computers that we use to rank college football teams.

Our college football rankings look like pure science versus the crap FIFA puts out. It's hard to have an organization more corrupt and more dysfunctional than FIFA.

Austria is #10 currently...

2016 matches
1-2 loss to Iceland
0-0 draw with Portugal
0-2 loss to Hungary
0-2 loss to Netherlands
2-1 win over Malta
1-2 loss to Turkey
2-1 win over Albania


Yep. That's clearly a top 10 team. 7 points in 7 matches. 2-1-4 record. 1 point in the Euros with a 0-1-2 record.

Mexico is 16th. They got worked 7-0 by Chile. If you think the US getting beat 4-0 by Argentina or 2-0 by Chile is embarrassing, what is that?

[Grizalltheway]

In Mexico, a national tragedy.

[89Hen]

I'm not saying we're going to win the World Cup, maybe ever, but we're not on a perpetual downward slope either.

Neither did I. But there has been ZERO improvement in the last 20 years. Got better, then worse. We're where we started.

[GannonFan]

I'm not saying we're going to win the World Cup, maybe ever, but we're not on a perpetual downward slope either.

Neither did I. But there has been ZERO improvement in the last 20 years. Got better, then worse. We're where we started.

Nah, the entire youth system and how kids feed into the national team, as well as the growth of MLS, is a huge improvement. You can't judge that on just a few results in a handful of games from the national team.

[Grizalltheway]

Neither did I. But there has been ZERO improvement in the last 20 years. Got better, then worse. We're where we started.

Nah, the entire youth system and how kids feed into the national team, as well as the growth of MLS, is a huge improvement. You can't judge that on just a few results in a handful of games from the national team.

Well, that is the only thing 89 pays attention to, but still pretends to be an authority on the matter.

[89Hen]

Neither did I. But there has been ZERO improvement in the last 20 years. Got better, then worse. We're where we started.

Nah, the entire youth system and how kids feed into the national team, as well as the growth of MLS, is a huge improvement. You can't judge that on just a few results in a handful of games from the national team.

There has been ZERO improvement in the MNT. That's all that matters. Your post sounds a lot like the posts we've heard over and over for the last 20 years. I will buy when I see the improvement on the field.

IOW, we will know if you are right in how many years?

[GannonFan]

Nah, the entire youth system and how kids feed into the national team, as well as the growth of MLS, is a huge improvement. You can't judge that on just a few results in a handful of games from the national team.

There has been ZERO improvement in the MNT. That's all that matters. Your post sounds a lot like the posts we've heard over and over for the last 20 years. I will buy when I see the improvement on the field.

IOW, we will know if you are right in how many years?

I don't know what you want to see. I'm sure you would've been all over Argentina when they dipped slightly in the time period where Bautistuta no longer played for the national team and before Messi came onto the scene. Was there a soccer problem in that country then because the national team hadn't filled the void instantaneously. That's what you're arguing here. You just said the US reached a high point by 2009, but now miraculously there hasn't been any improvement in 20 years - which of your arguments are you sticking with since you're saying two different things? We left a period where we had guys like Donovan and a younger Dempsey and we haven't filled those voids yet. We will, have patience, nobody is ever on a constant upward trajectory, not even the current soccer superpowers.

[89Hen]

There has been ZERO improvement in the MNT. That's all that matters. Your post sounds a lot like the posts we've heard over and over for the last 20 years. I will buy when I see the improvement on the field.

IOW, we will know if you are right in how many years?

I don't know what you want to see. I'm sure you would've been all over Argentina when they dipped slightly in the time period where Bautistuta no longer played for the national team and before Messi came onto the scene. Was there a soccer problem in that country then because the national team hadn't filled the void instantaneously. That's what you're arguing here. You just said the US reached a high point by 2009, but now miraculously there hasn't been any improvement in 20 years - which of your arguments are you sticking with since you're saying two different things? We left a period where we had guys like Donovan and a younger Dempsey and we haven't filled those voids yet. We will, have patience, nobody is ever on a constant upward trajectory, not even the current soccer superpowers.

You're a hopeless homeboy. Speculating on how I would have reacted to a team that had actually achieved more than we ever will and was having a temporary down period? The HEIGHT of the US success was reaching the Quarters of the WC and the finals of the Confederations Cup and hasn't done jack shit since. Ups and downs are expected in just about everything, but I'd still like to see ANY kind of upward trend. That's simply not happening. This is what you consider improvement...

[Skjellyfetti]

The HEIGHT of the US success was reaching the Quarters of the WC and the finals of the Confederations Cup and hasn't done jack shit since. Ups and downs are expected in just about everything, but I'd still like to see ANY kind of upward trend. That's simply not happening. This is what you consider improvement...

How is there no upward trend?

Round of 16 in the World Cup, finals of Confederations Cup, and semifinals of Copa America. Are all pretty big recent accomplishments.

Compare to the 60s, 70s, 80s. We accomplished exactly nothing.

In the 90s we made it to the round of 16 of the World Cup (aided by being on US soil and a seeded team).

How the hell is that not an upward trend?

[tribe_pride]

US has moved out of the Group Stage 3 of the last 4 World Cups. Lets compare that to the current Top 10 in the World.

1 Argentina out of Group Stage 3 of last 4 World Cups
2 Belgium only qualified for 2 of last 4 World Cups
3 Colombia only qualified for 1 of last 4 World Cups
4 Germany 3rd place is worst of last 4 World Cups
5 Chile only qualified for 2 of the last 4 World Cups
6 Spain out of Group Stage 3 of last 4 World Cups
7 Brazil Quarterfinals is worst of last 4 World Cups
8 Portugal out of Group Stage only 2 of last 4 World Cups
9 Uruguay only qualified for 3 of last 4 World Cups and out of Group Stage in only 2 of those
10 Austria has not qualified for any of the last 4 World Cups

Brazil and Germany are the only 2 consistent teams in the last 4 World Cups. We've done as well in group stage play of the World Cup as any of the top 10 besides those 2 and much better than the majority of the top 10. From then on, its knock out and anything can happen.

[BDKJMU]

The HEIGHT of the US success was reaching the Quarters of the WC and the finals of the Confederations Cup and hasn't done jack **** since. Ups and downs are expected in just about everything, but I'd still like to see ANY kind of upward trend. That's simply not happening. This is what you consider improvement...

How is there no upward trend?

Round of 16 in the World Cup, finals of Confederations Cup, and semifinals of Copa America. Are all pretty big recent accomplishments.

Compare to the 60s, 70s, 80s. We accomplished exactly nothing.

In the 90s we made it to the round of 16 of the World Cup (aided by being on US soil and a seeded team).

How the hell is that not an upward trend?

In 2002 I see US made Final 8 of World Cup. In 3 World Cups since have been round of 32, Round of 16, Round of 16. How is that an upward trend?

[89Hen]

The HEIGHT of the US success was reaching the Quarters of the WC and the finals of the Confederations Cup and hasn't done jack shit since. Ups and downs are expected in just about everything, but I'd still like to see ANY kind of upward trend. That's simply not happening. This is what you consider improvement...

How is there no upward trend?

Round of 16 in the World Cup, finals of Confederations Cup, and semifinals of Copa America. Are all pretty big recent accomplishments.

Compare to the 60s, 70s, 80s. We accomplished exactly nothing.

In the 90s we made it to the round of 16 of the World Cup (aided by being on US soil and a seeded team).

How the hell is that not an upward trend?

See that bump in the middle of the graph? That's 2002-2009. The fact that you're bringing up the 1960's means you are completely grasping GF. The USMNT is no better today than they were in 1994. Period.

[89Hen]

the current Top 10 in the World

So now the FIFA rankings are legit? You homeboys are funny.

[tribe_pride]

the current Top 10 in the World

So now the FIFA rankings are legit? You homeboys are funny.

Well played. I have now looked at every team to make the last 4 World Cups.

Only 3 have made it out of Group Stage all 4 World Cups - Germany, Brazil and Mexico
Only 5 have made it out of Group Stage in 3 World Cups - Argentina, England, Netherlands, Spain, and US
12 have made it out of the Group Stage in 2 of the World Cups including powerhouses Italy, France and Portugal
13 have made it out of the Group Stage in 1 of the World Cups
The other 20 countries never made it out of Group Stage at the World Cup.

We are in pretty good company having made it out 3 of the last 4 group stages

[GannonFan]

How is there no upward trend?

Round of 16 in the World Cup, finals of Confederations Cup, and semifinals of Copa America. Are all pretty big recent accomplishments.

Compare to the 60s, 70s, 80s. We accomplished exactly nothing.

In the 90s we made it to the round of 16 of the World Cup (aided by being on US soil and a seeded team).

How the hell is that not an upward trend?

See that bump in the middle of the graph? That's 2002-2009. The fact that you're bringing up the 1960's means you are completely grasping GF. The USMNT is no better today than they were in 1994. Period.

Well, first of all I didn't bring up the 1960's, that was another poster. And if you truly believe the team we put out there now, relative to the rest of the world, is no better than the team we put out on the field in 1994 then yes, we have to end this conversation, because you are oblivious to what's in front of you. Are we improving as much as we would like to? Absolutely not. But that team we had in 1994 was a shadow of the team that we can put out there today. Oh, period.

[Ibanez]

So, what you are saying is that soccer's FIFA rankings are about as good as the computers that we use to rank college football teams.

Our college football rankings look like pure science versus the crap FIFA puts out. It's hard to have an organization more corrupt and more dysfunctional than FIFA.

The IOC.

[Ibanez]

I don't know what you want to see. I'm sure you would've been all over Argentina when they dipped slightly in the time period where Bautistuta no longer played for the national team and before Messi came onto the scene. Was there a soccer problem in that country then because the national team hadn't filled the void instantaneously. That's what you're arguing here. You just said the US reached a high point by 2009, but now miraculously there hasn't been any improvement in 20 years - which of your arguments are you sticking with since you're saying two different things? We left a period where we had guys like Donovan and a younger Dempsey and we haven't filled those voids yet. We will, have patience, nobody is ever on a constant upward trajectory, not even the current soccer superpowers.

You're a hopeless homeboy. Speculating on how I would have reacted to a team that had actually achieved more than we ever will and was having a temporary down period? The HEIGHT of the US success was reaching the Quarters of the WC and the finals of the Confederations Cup and hasn't done jack shit since. Ups and downs are expected in just about everything, but I'd still like to see ANY kind of upward trend. That's simply not happening. This is what you consider improvement...

So....the US are the Delware Blue Hens of soccer?

[clenz]

It's also not an instant fix with the youth movement/development.

The "kids" that are growing and the future of US soccer aren't "of age" yet. 1994 was 22 years ago. A kid born that day is still Olympic eligible.

Kids that were 10-15 years old at that point are beyond/very tail end of their international career. We are at a strange point in the development/growth. It's still growing. It's still getting better.

But doom and gloom and brimstone.

[89Hen]

we have to end this conversation, because you are oblivious to what's in front of you

I can say the same of you and I'd be more correct homeboy.

[89Hen]

So....the US are the Delware Blue Hens of soccer?

Sort of. That graph would look more like the Cliffs of Dover.

[89Hen]

Costa Rica 4 : 0 United States

And the best part.... you had to PAY to watch this game on TV.

Can we finally put soccer to rest in this country?

[89Hen]

There has been ZERO improvement in the MNT. That's all that matters. Your post sounds a lot like the posts we've heard over and over for the last 20 years. I will buy when I see the improvement on the field.

IOW, we will know if you are right in how many years?

I am just so sick of being right.