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93henfan wrote:You still haven't answered my simple question:

Which team has had an easier time in their division than the Patriots?

Still waiting.

You got nothing. You never do. All talk. As usual.

Jets
Bills
Dolphins

That's hot.

93's owning this thread at this point. Any defense of those three teams is silly.

- Bills - no playoff wins this millennium, probably because they've only made the playoffs once this millennium
- Dolphins - slightly better, made the playoffs three times since the millennium, alas, no wins either
- Jets - only in this grouping can the Jets look like a powerhouse, and yet they've not made the playoffs in 8 years and have had all of one winning season in the past 8 years.

Those teams pretty much suck, and have sucked for very long periods of times, and, especially with the Bills and Dolphins, they've been sucking long before Brady ever emerged in New England. AFC East blows chunks.

kalm wrote:But EWU finally gets good enough to host playoff games despite brutal OOC schedules, makes deep runs and goes 4-1 against the mighty CAA including 88-17 in their last two.

*3-2

89Hen wrote:

kalm wrote:But EWU finally gets good enough to host playoff games despite brutal OOC schedules, makes deep runs and goes 4-1 against the mighty CAA including 88-17 in their last two.

*3-2

kalm wrote:

89Hen wrote: *3-2

Where's the mention of the chain crew screwup?

*Double

GannonFan wrote:

93henfan wrote:You still haven't answered my simple question:

Which team has had an easier time in their division than the Patriots?

Still waiting.

You got nothing. You never do. All talk. As usual.

Jets
Bills
Dolphins

That's hot.

93's owning this thread at this point. Any defense of those three teams is silly.

- Bills - no playoff wins this millennium, probably because they've only made the playoffs once this millennium
- Dolphins - slightly better, made the playoffs three times since the millennium, alas, no wins either
- Jets - only in this grouping can the Jets look like a powerhouse, and yet they've not made the playoffs in 8 years and have had all of one winning season in the past 8 years.

Those teams pretty much suck, and have sucked for very long periods of times, and, especially with the Bills and Dolphins, they've been sucking long before Brady ever emerged in New England. AFC East blows chunks.

You might be confusing "defending" something with simply using factual data
There's nothing to "defend" there's just data

The teams with the longest playoff win droughts are:

Giants 7
Bears 8
Jets 8
Redskins 13
Buccaneers 16
Raiders 16
Dolphins 18
Browns 21
Buffalo 23
Lions 27
Bengals 28

Note:
Since 2002 realignment the division with the worst out of conference record is the AFC South
Yet no team in the AFC south has a significant playoff drought
worth noting: there have been seasons where 8-8 wins the AFC South

I can't find any data that correlates your claim
I can however find a lot of data that supports that the Patriots are the most complete team
based on wins and loses in any and all scenarios

Chizzang wrote:

GannonFan wrote:
93's owning this thread at this point. Any defense of those three teams is silly.

- Bills - no playoff wins this millennium, probably because they've only made the playoffs once this millennium
- Dolphins - slightly better, made the playoffs three times since the millennium, alas, no wins either
- Jets - only in this grouping can the Jets look like a powerhouse, and yet they've not made the playoffs in 8 years and have had all of one winning season in the past 8 years.

Those teams pretty much suck, and have sucked for very long periods of times, and, especially with the Bills and Dolphins, they've been sucking long before Brady ever emerged in New England. AFC East blows chunks.

You might be confusing "defending" something with simply using factual data
There's nothing to "defend" there's just data

The teams with the longest playoff win droughts are:

Giants 7
Bears 8
Jets 8
Redskins 13
Buccaneers 16
Raiders 16
Dolphins 18
Browns 21
Buffalo 23
Lions 27
Bengals 28

Note:
Since 2002 realignment the division with the worst out of conference record is the AFC South
Yet no team in the AFC south has a significant playoff drought
worth noting: there have been seasons where 8-8 wins the AFC South

I can't find any data that correlates your claim
I can however find a lot of data that supports that the Patriots are the most complete team
based on wins and loses in any and all scenarios

All you had to do was quote my post and then you would've had the data. What data are you not seeing? The Jets/Dolphins/Bills have not had any great teams for at least the past two decades, by any measure (but notably playoff wins). It seems like you're trying to do everything and anything to avoid that reality. Those three teams have sucked the proverbial donkey balls since before we found out Y2K wasn't that big of a deal. And they will for the foreseeable future as well.

GannonFan wrote:

Chizzang wrote:
You might be confusing "defending" something with simply using factual data
There's nothing to "defend" there's just data

The teams with the longest playoff win droughts are:

Giants 7
Bears 8
Jets 8
Redskins 13
Buccaneers 16
Raiders 16
Dolphins 18
Browns 21
Buffalo 23
Lions 27
Bengals 28

Note:
Since 2002 realignment the division with the worst out of conference record is the AFC South
Yet no team in the AFC south has a significant playoff drought
worth noting: there have been seasons where 8-8 wins the AFC South

I can't find any data that correlates your claim
I can however find a lot of data that supports that the Patriots are the most complete team
based on wins and loses in any and all scenarios

All you had to do was quote my post and then you would've had the data. What data are you not seeing? The Jets/Dolphins/Bills have not had any great teams for at least the past two decades, by any measure (but notably playoff wins). It seems like you're trying to do everything and anything to avoid that reality. Those three teams have sucked the proverbial donkey balls since before we found out Y2K wasn't that big of a deal. And they will for the foreseeable future as well.

So would the records between the AFC East and the NFC East mean anything..?
would that prove anything..?



I can only go back 10 years but the AFC East has a winning record against the NFC East
What does that say about the NFC East.?

17-15 inner divisional record since 2010
and they play each other this season
so that should tell us all we need to know statistically speaking

Chizzang wrote:

GannonFan wrote:
All you had to do was quote my post and then you would've had the data. What data are you not seeing? The Jets/Dolphins/Bills have not had any great teams for at least the past two decades, by any measure (but notably playoff wins). It seems like you're trying to do everything and anything to avoid that reality. Those three teams have sucked the proverbial donkey balls since before we found out Y2K wasn't that big of a deal. And they will for the foreseeable future as well.

So would the records between the AFC East and the NFC East mean anything..?
would that prove anything..?



I can only go back 10 years but the AFC East has a winning record against the NFC East
What does that say about the NFC East.?

17-15 inner divisional record since 2010
and they play each other this season
so that should tell us all we need to know statistically speaking

You're looking at the wrong data because you want to. I'm more interested in whether these teams can ever be teams that can field potential Super Bowl contenders across the past decades. The NFC East has two different teams who have won three Super Bowls since the millennium (oddly, all against the NE Patriots, who are just 1-3 in Super Bowls against the NFC East) and as much as we mock the cowboys they've had a fair number of good seasons over the past several years. Heck, even the Redskins would look like contenders versus the bottom three of the AFC East with the Skins being in four different playoffs since the millennium and actually winning a playoff game in there as well.

GannonFan wrote:

Chizzang wrote:
So would the records between the AFC East and the NFC East mean anything..?
would that prove anything..?



I can only go back 10 years but the AFC East has a winning record against the NFC East
What does that say about the NFC East.?

17-15 inner divisional record since 2010
and they play each other this season
so that should tell us all we need to know statistically speaking

You're looking at the wrong data because you want to. I'm more interested in whether these teams can ever be teams that can field potential Super Bowl contenders across the past decades. The NFC East has two different teams who have won three Super Bowls since the millennium (oddly, all against the NE Patriots, who are just 1-3 in Super Bowls against the NFC East) and as much as we mock the cowboys they've had a fair number of good seasons over the past several years. Heck, even the Redskins would look like contenders versus the bottom three of the AFC East with the Skins being in four different playoffs since the millennium and actually winning a playoff game in there as well.

Oh.. I see
So it's not about actual data that can be measured like wins and loses
it's about "potential"

Well that makes sense
because if you just measure wins and loses and use the data that can be measured
There really isn't much difference between the NFL divisions as far as wins and loses against each other

By your "Superbowl wins" standard
The only division worth a sh!t in all of football over the last 20 years is the AFC North
with the Steelers and Ravens winning "superbowls" as in plural

Chizzang wrote:

GannonFan wrote:
You're looking at the wrong data because you want to. I'm more interested in whether these teams can ever be teams that can field potential Super Bowl contenders across the past decades. The NFC East has two different teams who have won three Super Bowls since the millennium (oddly, all against the NE Patriots, who are just 1-3 in Super Bowls against the NFC East) and as much as we mock the cowboys they've had a fair number of good seasons over the past several years. Heck, even the Redskins would look like contenders versus the bottom three of the AFC East with the Skins being in four different playoffs since the millennium and actually winning a playoff game in there as well.

Oh.. I see
So it's not about actual data that can be measured like wins and loses
it's about "potential"

Well that makes sense
because if you just measure wins and loses and use the data that can be measured
There really isn't much difference between the NFL divisions as far as wins and loses against each other

By your "Superbowl wins" standard
The only division worth a sh!t in all of football over the last 20 years is the AFC North
with the Steelers and Ravens winning "superbowls" as in plural

So 3 superbowls by the NFC East in that time is no longer plural?

I'm asking for a friend, is 6.93 plural?

GannonFan wrote:

Chizzang wrote:
Oh.. I see
So it's not about actual data that can be measured like wins and loses
it's about "potential"

Well that makes sense
because if you just measure wins and loses and use the data that can be measured
There really isn't much difference between the NFL divisions as far as wins and loses against each other

By your "Superbowl wins" standard
The only division worth a sh!t in all of football over the last 20 years is the AFC North
with the Steelers and Ravens winning "superbowls" as in plural

So 3 superbowls by the NFC East in that time is no longer plural?

I'm asking for a friend, is 6.93 plural?

That's one team with plural
The other is like the Buccaneers or the Raiders or the Colts with a fluke superbowl win

well anyway I'm certainly open to the data presenting your point
Meanwhile the NFC East is below .500 against the lowly AFC East this past decade
we'll see if that continues

Gil Dobie wrote:

Or on IR after week 10.

Vidav wrote:

Gil Dobie wrote:

Or on IR after week 10.

I’m calling Week 7 at the latest


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Vidav wrote:

Gil Dobie wrote:

Or on IR after week 10.

Is he Ginger Jesus because of his hair color or because has to be treated gingerly?

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Go back and read the posts about the NFL by the two experts
and see what claims they make - with zero data to back them up
Then see my posts with "actual statistical data"

There's more:
The winning-est division against all opponents since realignment is the AFC East
Below we see:
Regular Season wins against all opponents since 2002 realignment

worst: 506 / NFC West
533 / NFC North
534 / AFC South
544 / AFC West
545 / AFC North
555 / AFC South
557 / NFC East
Best: 569 / AFC East

Here we see:
Regular Season winning percentage against opposite conference since realignment

AFC .504
NFC .495

Chizzang wrote:Go back and read the posts about the NFL by the two experts
and see what claims they make - with zero data to back them up
Then see my posts with "actual statistical data"

There's more:
The winning-est division against all opponents since realignment is the AFC East
Below we see:
Regular Season wins against all opponents since 2002 realignment

worst: 506 / NFC West
533 / NFC North
534 / AFC South
544 / AFC West
545 / AFC North
555 / AFC South
557 / NFC East
Best: 569 / AFC East

Here we see:
Regular Season winning percentage against opposite conference since realignment

AFC .504
NFC .495

How do the divisions do if you exclude the record of the division winner (i.e. are the Patriots carrying the AFC East)?

I'm not going to argue statistics with you but I will say that as a Chiefs fan, I would rather play the Dolphins, Jets and Bills twice each than the Chargers, Broncos and Raiders.

UNI88 wrote:

Chizzang wrote:Go back and read the posts about the NFL by the two experts
and see what claims they make - with zero data to back them up
Then see my posts with "actual statistical data"

There's more:
The winning-est division against all opponents since realignment is the AFC East
Below we see:
Regular Season wins against all opponents since 2002 realignment

worst: 506 / NFC West
533 / NFC North
534 / AFC South
544 / AFC West
545 / AFC North
555 / AFC South
557 / NFC East
Best: 569 / AFC East

Here we see:
Regular Season winning percentage against opposite conference since realignment

AFC .504
NFC .495

How do the divisions do if you exclude the record of the division winner (i.e. are the Patriots carrying the AFC East)?

I'm not going to argue statistics with you but I will say that as a Chiefs fan, I would rather play the Dolphins, Jets and Bills twice each than the Chargers, Broncos and Raiders.

The argument put forth by Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum
is that the Patriots are so good these last 20 years because the AFC East sucks
and in the past 20 years the division that wins the most games is the AFC East



you could extract a year statistically and make whatever point you want
but when making a blanket statement about a 20 year window
the statistics do not support that claim

add to that the Patriots play everybody in all divisions and conferences at about .750
You also hear the same uninformed NFL fans say that the AFC stinks
but the AFC is .504 against the NFC these past 20 years

Chizzang wrote:

UNI88 wrote:
How do the divisions do if you exclude the record of the division winner (i.e. are the Patriots carrying the AFC East)?

I'm not going to argue statistics with you but I will say that as a Chiefs fan, I would rather play the Dolphins, Jets and Bills twice each than the Chargers, Broncos and Raiders.

The argument put forth by Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum
is that the Patriots are so good these last 20 years because the AFC East sucks
and in the past 20 years the division that wins the most games is the AFC East

You didn't answer my question about the statistics if the division winners are excluded?

The Patriots would have been good over the last 20 years in any division but the question of whether playing in the AFC East given them an easier road and possibly an extra win or two per season is a valid one. An extra loss or two changes the home field dynamics in the playoffs. Now the Patriots are very good on the road so it might not have mattered but then again it could have. We're in hypothetical land here so we can speculate to our hearts content.

UNI88 wrote:

Chizzang wrote:
The argument put forth by Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum
is that the Patriots are so good these last 20 years because the AFC East sucks
and in the past 20 years the division that wins the most games is the AFC East

You didn't answer my question about the statistics if the division winners are excluded?

The Patriots would have been good over the last 20 years in any division but the question of whether playing in the AFC East given them an easier road and possibly an extra win or two per season is a valid one. An extra loss or two changes the home field dynamics in the playoffs. Now the Patriots are very good on the road so it might not have mattered but then again it could have. We're in hypothetical land here so we can speculate to our hearts content.

the patriots get just as many wins on the road as they do at home
they get just as many wins out of conference as they do in conference
they play .750 or better everywhere and in every scenario

So you could argue this:
The Patriots average 2 more wins a season in their out of conference games than the rest of the NFL
this gives them a higher seeding than everybody else

Warning for Chizzang: Grab a towel before opening the spoiler.

Spoiler: show

93henfan wrote:Warning for Chizzang: Grab a towel before opening the spoiler.

Spoiler: show

Lord of the Rings

Ugh... The Texans are potentially in deep trouble
The previous GM (now fired) and the Texans upper management
is being investigated by the NFL for two infractions

1) Race related firings
2) Employment tampering

The Broncos will not finish lower than 3rd, and could surprise.


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