Felix Hernandez wins AL Cy Young

[JoltinJoe]

So Felix Hernandez, who has the smallest defensive responsibility on the team, and absolutely NO input on the offense, has to go out and pitch twice as good as the other pitcher, because his offense is half as good as the other team's offense, just to get a win and earn respect?

THE PITCHER.

CAN ONLY.

PITCH.

Wins decide who go to the playoffs, and the Yankees have gone to them a lot. We get it, Joe. Yankee mentality, win games. We all get it, trust me.

Pitchers don't decide who win games on their own. I've stated it a million times. Anyone can get a win for pitching as good or bad as they want. It all depends on the game situation. Average stats, even simple ones like WHIP and ERA, tell the whole story, how good a pitcher does for the whole season, in every situation.

I know none of this will sway your opinion. I just wish you'd actually address any of this with something other than just "math league" comments, and say why someone who gives up the least runs, walks, and hits ISN'T the best pitcher. This isn't even about SABR stats. Felix was the best pitcher, the most basic of stats prove that. His team was TERRIBLE.

So we should give the Cy Young to a pitcher with great stats and an excuse?

[ToTheLeft]

There's no need for the excuse. Great stats prove he was a great pitcher. The excuse is only needed for people who disagree with the Baseball Writers and everyone else who saw that Felix was the best pitcher.

The excuses are for YOU, basically.

The stats are proof of what Felix really was. He didn't need an excuse. He was the best pitcher.

[JoltinJoe]

There's no need for the excuse. Great stats prove he was a great pitcher. The excuse is only needed for people who disagree with the Baseball Writers and everyone else who saw that Felix was the best pitcher.

The excuses are for YOU, basically.

The stats are proof of what Felix really was. He didn't need an excuse. He was the best pitcher.

He won 13 games. If you think that makes him the best, you are making excuses for him.

I'm with Roy Halladay. You have to find a way to get the win.

The guy I thought should get the AL Cy won 19 games. I don't have to make excuses for him. He found a way to get wins.

As for sportswriters, I was a sportswriter once. Most of them had very little idea of the intricacies of the game.

[ToTheLeft]

There's no need for the excuse. Great stats prove he was a great pitcher. The excuse is only needed for people who disagree with the Baseball Writers and everyone else who saw that Felix was the best pitcher.

The excuses are for YOU, basically.

The stats are proof of what Felix really was. He didn't need an excuse. He was the best pitcher.

He won 13 games. If you think that makes him the best, you are making excuses for him.

I'm with Roy Halladay. You have to find a way to get the win.

The guy I thought should get the AL Cy won 19 games. I don't have to make excuses for him. He found a way to get wins.

As for sportswriters, I was a sportswriter once. Most of them had very little idea of the intricacies of the game.

Oh, I get it. You played legion ball and you're a Yankee fan, so you clearly know baseball more than the rest of us.

Give me a break, get over yourself. You have no defense for your arguments other than hubris and ignorance.

Felix couldn't find a way to win when he goes 8 games allowing 1 run or less per game, and he loses 3 of them. He couldn't go hit. He couldn't play D. He could just pitch. You're ignorant, it's as simple as that. You can't defend your points with anything but "I played legion ball"

What a joke. You wonder why there are Yankee haters? Because Yankee fans are the worst fans in all of sports.

Enjoy 3 years, 45 mil for the corpse of Derek Jeter. What a smart move by the Yankees.

[AZGrizFan]

Joe, from the sounds of your argument you'd rather just consider wins and NOTHING else.

[ToTheLeft]

Joe, from the sounds of your argument you'd rather just consider wins and NOTHING else.

ERA is a basic, simple stat, used for ages. It tells you how many runs a pitcher gives up. But that's too newfangled. They must not use it in "serious HS and Legion" ball.

[AZGrizFan]

Joe, from the sounds of your argument you'd rather just consider wins and NOTHING else.

ERA is a basic, simple stat, used for ages. It tells you how many runs a pitcher gives up. But that's too newfangled. They must not use it in "serious HS and Legion" ball.

Well, I agree with him, to an extent. Wins are important, but they're not the ONLY important stat. And this isn't an "MVP" award....they have that one too.

Wins
ERA
WHIP
Innings pitched
SO/IP
W/IP
SO/BB ratio

all important....IMHO.

[ToTheLeft]

What do wins prove that the other stats don't? If you have a 1.95 ERA but you go up against someone pitching a shutout every game, you'll never win. Does that make you a bad pitcher?

[JoltinJoe]

Joe, from the sounds of your argument you'd rather just consider wins and NOTHING else.

Naw, but it is the most important stat. You have two pitchers in the AL this year, one with 21 wins, one with 19 wins, both with stellar ERAs. Price won 6 more games than Hernandez with a 2.72 ERA. The six wins more than makes up for the .4 difference in ERAs. Even Sabathia at 3.18 was more deserving. He won 8 more games than Hernandez.

The guy was 13-12. Not even 16-9 ... or 15-10 ...

[JoltinJoe]

He won 13 games. If you think that makes him the best, you are making excuses for him.

I'm with Roy Halladay. You have to find a way to get the win.

The guy I thought should get the AL Cy won 19 games. I don't have to make excuses for him. He found a way to get wins.

As for sportswriters, I was a sportswriter once. Most of them had very little idea of the intricacies of the game.

Oh, I get it. You played legion ball and you're a Yankee fan, so you clearly know baseball more than the rest of us.

Give me a break, get over yourself. You have no defense for your arguments other than hubris and ignorance.

Felix couldn't find a way to win when he goes 8 games allowing 1 run or less per game, and he loses 3 of them. He couldn't go hit. He couldn't play D. He could just pitch. You're ignorant, it's as simple as that. You can't defend your points with anything but "I played legion ball"

What a joke. You wonder why there are Yankee haters? Because Yankee fans are the worst fans in all of sports.

Enjoy 3 years, 45 mil for the corpse of Derek Jeter. What a smart move by the Yankees.

Stop being an idiot. Thank you.

[ToTheLeft]

^^^Translation: I lost.

I hope those legion ball trophies are as nice as Felix's Cy Young!

[JoltinJoe]

What do wins prove that the other stats don't? If you have a 1.95 ERA but you go up against someone pitching a shutout every game, you'll never win. Does that make you a bad pitcher?

A win is a hard stat. It gets counted in the standings.

ERA is a predictive stat. A low ERA for a starter is a predictor for a high number of wins.

Wins get counted in the standings. ERA does not.

If you want to believe that the predictor stat is more important than the hard stat, go ahead.

[GannonFan]

What do wins prove that the other stats don't? If you have a 1.95 ERA but you go up against someone pitching a shutout every game, you'll never win. Does that make you a bad pitcher?

A win is a hard stat. It gets counted in the standings.

ERA is a predictive stat. A low ERA for a starter is a predictor for a high number of wins.

Wins get counted in the standings. ERA does not.

If you want to believe that the predictor stat is more important than the hard stat, go ahead.

Stop yourself already, you're in a huge hole. ERA isn't any more predictive than wins are - both stats are based on what's already happened. They're both based on what a pitcher has done, not what he's going to do. Sure you can use ERA to predict future outcomes, but you can do the same with wins if you want - it doesn't change where the number comes from.

Seriously, how old are you and did you cry when Gehrig retired?

[SuperHornet]

JMU: We really don't hear much about the PacNW down here in the Sac-Joaquin Valley. We get the Bay Area teams (Giants/A's/Whiners/Raiders/Warriors/Sharks/Cal/Stanford) jammed down our throats whether we like it or not. Our local papers do a horrible job of covering the local colleges as well. The big names like Halladay filter through occasionally. But I really have no idea about ANYBODY playing for the Pitchforks.

[AZGrizFan]

Joe, from the sounds of your argument you'd rather just consider wins and NOTHING else.

Naw, but it is the most important stat. You have two pitchers in the AL this year, one with 21 wins, one with 19 wins, both with stellar ERAs. Price won 6 more games than Hernandez with a 2.72 ERA. The six wins more than makes up for the .4 difference in ERAs. Even Sabathia at 3.18 was more deserving. He won 8 more games than Hernandez.

The guy was 13-12. Not even 16-9 ... or 15-10 ...

But when the rest of the stats are SO overwhelming in one guys favor, I'd say the right guy won.

[Grizalltheway]

There's no need for the excuse. Great stats prove he was a great pitcher. The excuse is only needed for people who disagree with the Baseball Writers and everyone else who saw that Felix was the best pitcher.

The excuses are for YOU, basically.

The stats are proof of what Felix really was. He didn't need an excuse. He was the best pitcher.

He won 13 games. If you think that makes him the best, you are making excuses for him.

I'm with Roy Halladay. You have to find a way to get the win.

The guy I thought should get the AL Cy won 19 games. I don't have to make excuses for him. He found a way to get wins.

As for sportswriters, I was a sportswriter once. Most of them had very little idea of the intricacies of the game.

"Found a way to win games". So, did he just do a better job of giving pep talks to his team mates than Hernandez?

[Gil Dobie]

August 15 vs Cleveland, Figgins commits an Error, Felix loses it and gives up 6 runs that don't count against his ERA. Little things like this pop up that don't figure in his stats, even though he is not responsible for the error, he still needs to step up and keep pitching.

[ToTheLeft]

August 15 vs Cleveland, Figgins commits an Error, Felix loses it and gives up 6 runs that don't count against his ERA. Little things like this pop up that don't figure in his stats, even though he is not responsible for the error, he still needs to step up and keep pitching.

Same things happened with CC, or Price, or Bucholz... these things balance out.

[BlueHen86]

There's no need for the excuse. Great stats prove he was a great pitcher. The excuse is only needed for people who disagree with the Baseball Writers and everyone else who saw that Felix was the best pitcher.

The excuses are for YOU, basically.

The stats are proof of what Felix really was. He didn't need an excuse. He was the best pitcher.

He won 13 games. If you think that makes him the best, you are making excuses for him.

I'm with Roy Halladay. You have to find a way to get the win.
The guy I thought should get the AL Cy won 19 games. I don't have to make excuses for him. He found a way to get wins.

As for sportswriters, I was a sportswriter once. Most of them had very little idea of the intricacies of the game.

I disagree with both you and Halladay. It's not an individual players job to find a way to win, it is a team game, one player can't win or lose by himself. It is the players job to help put his team in a position to win, which Hernandez did almost every time out and he did it better than anyone else in the AL this year.

He deserved the award and the writers were smart enough to see that.

[BlueHen86]

August 15 vs Cleveland, Figgins commits an Error, Felix loses it and gives up 6 runs that don't count against his ERA. Little things like this pop up that don't figure in his stats, even though he is not responsible for the error, he still needs to step up and keep pitching.

Do you think that they should do away with post season awards then? Name any player that played all season and I'm sure that I can find a bad game or two along the way.



Does an 0-5 at the plate in one game eliminate a player from MVP consideration? How about an error? Everybody has bad games, if one bad start eliminated a pitcher from CY Young consideration there would be no award.

[JoltinJoe]

He won 13 games. If you think that makes him the best, you are making excuses for him.

I'm with Roy Halladay. You have to find a way to get the win.
The guy I thought should get the AL Cy won 19 games. I don't have to make excuses for him. He found a way to get wins.

As for sportswriters, I was a sportswriter once. Most of them had very little idea of the intricacies of the game.

I disagree with both you and Halladay. It's not an individual players job to find a way to win, it is a team game, one player can't win or lose by himself. It is the players job to help put his team in a position to win, which Hernandez did almost every time out and he did it better than anyone else in the AL this year.

He deserved the award and the writers were smart enough to see that.

I've never known a starting pitcher with any heart who doesn't think like Halladay. Give me the ball, I'll get you the win. I bet if MLB pitchers voted for Cy Young, Price or Sabathia win it easily.

A starter these days gets 35 starts, so in order to win 20 games, a starter has to get a "W" decision in almost 60% of his starts. Winning 20 games is harder for a starter than throwing for an ERA under 3.00.

Three starters in MLB won 20 games or more this year: Halladay (21), Sabathia (21), and Wainright (20).

On the other hand, 15 pitchers had ERAs under 3.00.

[BlueHen86]

I disagree with both you and Halladay. It's not an individual players job to find a way to win, it is a team game, one player can't win or lose by himself. It is the players job to help put his team in a position to win, which Hernandez did almost every time out and he did it better than anyone else in the AL this year.

He deserved the award and the writers were smart enough to see that.

I've never known a starting pitcher with any heart who doesn't think like Halladay. Give me the ball, I'll get you the win. I bet if MLB pitchers voted for Cy Young, Price or Sabathia win it easily.

A starter these days gets 35 starts, so in order to win 20 games, a starter has to get a "W" decision in almost 60% of his starts. Winning 20 games is harder for a starter than throwing for an ERA under 3.00.

Three starters in MLB won 20 games or more this year: Halladay (21), Sabathia (21), and Wainright (20).

On the other hand, 15 pitchers had ERAs under 3.00.

BTW, how many votes did Josh Johnson get for NL Cy? He had a 2.3 ERA.

I don't know what the awards are called, but there are awards that the players vote for. Price won for AL pitchers.

[DJH]

August 15 vs Cleveland, Figgins commits an Error, Felix loses it and gives up 6 runs that don't count against his ERA. Little things like this pop up that don't figure in his stats, even though he is not responsible for the error, he still needs to step up and keep pitching.

lol, are you freaking kidding me with this stuff?

THIS is how you are supporting this argument?...

[Gil Dobie]

August 15 vs Cleveland, Figgins commits an Error, Felix loses it and gives up 6 runs that don't count against his ERA. Little things like this pop up that don't figure in his stats, even though he is not responsible for the error, he still needs to step up and keep pitching.

lol, are you freaking kidding me with this stuff?

THIS is how you are supporting this argument?...

Just showing you the arguement you have been giving, selective stats. Now that you see how rediculous they are, I hope you are done with them.

PS: What baseball record Cy Young most Famous?

[DJH]

My selective stats? I haven't provided any stats other than season long statistics. You know, statistics that measure a pitchers entire season.

Is ERA a ridiculous stat? Are K's a ridiculous stat? Are men on base a ridiculous stat?

You provided some ridiculous singular event.