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Ridiculous...

Not long after they won 170-35 by pressing the entire time against Houston Lee, Houston's Jack Yates HS did it again - this time beating Houston Davis 154-39.

According to the post-game recap, Yates kept some of their top players in as the lead topped 100. Yates opened this game against Davis 26-0 in the first three minutes. It was 49-6 after the first quarter.

Some write-ups on Yates...

http://www.foxsportshouston.com/pages/l ... eedID=3803

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/edi ... 04403.html

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/pre ... y_id=54745

http://varsitynow.blogs.starnewsonline. ... ly-amount/

Sorry. Got no problem with it.

Got no problem with it either. They are on the schedule and they have to play the game so play the fucking game as it should be played. If you can't stop someone then we're such a bunch of pussies now that we expect kids that are out there trying to hone their talents to lay down because the other team can't put up a proper fight? If that's the case then call the game. Asking people to give less than their full effort to make some other group of less talented individuals feel better about themselves is fucking sickening.

Ursus A. Horribilis wrote:Got no problem with it either. They are on the schedule and they have to play the game so play the fucking game as it should be played. If you can't stop someone then we're such a bunch of pussies now that we expect kids that are out there trying to hone their talents to lay down because the other team can't put up a proper fight? If that's the case then call the game. Asking people to give less than their full effort to make some other group of less talented individuals feel better about themselves is fucking sickening.

If I could kiss you right now I would.

AZGrizFan wrote:

Ursus A. Horribilis wrote:Got no problem with it either. They are on the schedule and they have to play the game so play the fucking game as it should be played. If you can't stop someone then we're such a bunch of pussies now that we expect kids that are out there trying to hone their talents to lay down because the other team can't put up a proper fight? If that's the case then call the game. Asking people to give less than their full effort to make some other group of less talented individuals feel better about themselves is fucking sickening.

If I could kiss you right now I would.

I think we're both happy with the proximity issue at the present time but thank you all the same.

Ursus A. Horribilis wrote:Got no problem with it either. They are on the schedule and they have to play the game so play the **** game as it should be played. If you can't stop someone then we're such a bunch of pussies now that we expect kids that are out there trying to hone their talents to lay down because the other team can't put up a proper fight? If that's the case then call the game. Asking people to give less than their full effort to make some other group of less talented individuals feel better about themselves is **** sickening.

My problem lies in pulling the starters - several of whom are very legitimate Div I student-athletes to be. Empty the bench earlier, it should not be that hard to do when the advantage reaches 75+ points.

My problem lies in pressing for the full game. I know you want to run your defensive scheme and work on what you are putting into play - but is it really necessary?

And I still think Houston ISD needs rules regarding a running clock. The fact the athletic director of the Houston ISD continues to pass the buck and not put in rules like this are ridiculous.

TexasTerror wrote:

Ursus A. Horribilis wrote:Got no problem with it either. They are on the schedule and they have to play the game so play the **** game as it should be played. If you can't stop someone then we're such a bunch of pussies now that we expect kids that are out there trying to hone their talents to lay down because the other team can't put up a proper fight? If that's the case then call the game. Asking people to give less than their full effort to make some other group of less talented individuals feel better about themselves is **** sickening.

My problem lies in pulling the starters - several of whom are very legitimate Div I student-athletes to be. Empty the bench earlier, it should not be that hard to do when the advantage reaches 75+ points.

My problem lies in pressing for the full game. I know you want to run your defensive scheme and work on what you are putting into play - but is it really necessary?

And I still think Houston ISD needs rules regarding a running clock. The fact the athletic director of the Houston ISD continues to pass the buck and not put in rules like this are ridiculous.

I agre with TT with the issues here. At some point, maybe when you are by 80 you could go. Maybe we don't need to press right now, I think the game might be in hand.

clenz wrote:

TexasTerror wrote:
My problem lies in pulling the starters - several of whom are very legitimate Div I student-athletes to be. Empty the bench earlier, it should not be that hard to do when the advantage reaches 75+ points.

My problem lies in pressing for the full game. I know you want to run your defensive scheme and work on what you are putting into play - but is it really necessary?

And I still think Houston ISD needs rules regarding a running clock. The fact the athletic director of the Houston ISD continues to pass the buck and not put in rules like this are ridiculous.

I agre with TT with the issues here. At some point, maybe when you are by 80 you could go. Maybe we don't need to press right now, I think the game might be in hand.

They only know the press. But I would concede to a running clock when the lead becomes insurmountable (50+, say).

The should pull the starters, but continue to play their game. If that means continuing to press, so be it. A running clock is also a good idea.

This isn't the pro's. These kids should also be learning about sportmanship. Allowing your starters to stay in the game and run up the score against an inferior opponent is not sporting.

TexasTerror wrote:

Ursus A. Horribilis wrote:Got no problem with it either. They are on the schedule and they have to play the game so play the **** game as it should be played. If you can't stop someone then we're such a bunch of pussies now that we expect kids that are out there trying to hone their talents to lay down because the other team can't put up a proper fight? If that's the case then call the game. Asking people to give less than their full effort to make some other group of less talented individuals feel better about themselves is **** sickening.

My problem lies in pulling the starters - several of whom are very legitimate Div I student-athletes to be. Empty the bench earlier, it should not be that hard to do when the advantage reaches 75+ points.

My problem lies in pressing for the full game. I know you want to run your defensive scheme and work on what you are putting into play - but is it really necessary?

And I still think Houston ISD needs rules regarding a running clock. The fact the athletic director of the Houston ISD continues to pass the buck and not put in rules like this are ridiculous.

I'm sure this team wants to win a state championship. Experience goes a long way in that quest. So if they were up 49-6 at half then they should have stopped working on things that can help them be better to save face for a team that is not as good as them?

There is NOTHING that would be embarassing to me than to have an opponent sit back and work me over handily and think my team wasn't even worth playing the starters for a 1/2.

Since I only clicked the first couple of links and they were opinion pieces I lost interest quickly but how many guys are on the bench for Yates?

How many that could play in the game didn't see time?

What % of the game were the starting 5 actually in for?

As far as the "is it really necessary?" part of the post...I don't know that it is necessary but again, it's the kind of ball they play and are comfortable with so if they want to practice certain things with it then they shouldn't because the emotional group may not think it's necessary?

Why aren't these type of question ever asked about guys like Hussein bolt, or other sports where it is acceptable to just go out and give it your all and let the chips fall where they may?

Seriously man, fans, sportswriters, and whoever else bitch and complain about guys like Randy Moss "dogging it" and so forth but many of these same people turn right around and bitch about teams playing their game to it's full potential.

Why isn't anybody asking why this team that got their ass whooped what the fuck is wrong with them? I mean they were SERIOUSLY over matched by their contemporaries. Was it the opposing coaches fault for not teaching them how to break a press? Were all of the players on the opposing team giving their full effort? I pity this country and it's coddling of underachievers and making villains out of achievers.

BlueHen86 wrote:The should pull the starters, but continue to play their game. If that means continuing to press, so be it. A running clock is also a good idea.

This isn't the pro's. These kids should also be learning about sportmanship. Allowing your starters to stay in the game and run up the score against an inferior opponent is not sporting.

That's the thing I don't know BH is how much did they play and how do you decide if they played enough or not enough considering that you as a coach are working with the balance of coaching for more than just this game and it's outcome at that point.

As I said the box score as far as how many minutes the starters played would be useful but even if they played 75% of the game I couldn't bag on the coach for that. I also couldn't bag on the players for just flat out being better than their counterparts and wanting to show it.

Ursus A. Horribilis wrote:Why isn't anybody asking why this team that got their ass whooped what the **** is wrong with them? I mean they were SERIOUSLY over matched by their contemporaries. Was it the opposing coaches fault for not teaching them how to break a press? Were all of the players on the opposing team giving their full effort? I pity this country and it's coddling of underachievers and making villains out of achievers.

The team that lost 170-35 is a unique case in Texas HS athletics.

The school is mostly international kids and a few years ago, scrapped their HS football program. Their most popular sport? Soccer! They have homecoming during soccer and are one of the better schools in the area and state in the sport.

When it comes to the other sports they play in - like basketball and baseball, they get their heads kicked in pretty good. The Yates coach acknowledged that they could score 200 on them or the team they ended up scoring 154 on.

AZGrizFan wrote:They only know the press. But I would concede to a running clock when the lead becomes insurmountable (50+, say).

I've been told that this is done in AAU.

These are no professionals, where if you are getting your tail kicked - it's tough crap on you! This is high school athletics, where sportsmanship does need to reign supreme at some point.

AZGrizFan wrote:

clenz wrote:I agre with TT with the issues here. At some point, maybe when you are by 80 you could go. Maybe we don't need to press right now, I think the game might be in hand.

They only know the press. But I would concede to a running clock when the lead becomes insurmountable (50+, say).

Yeah, they could lay off the press and I don't know if they did at some point or not. It would be a perfect time to work on another defense.

Ursus A. Horribilis wrote:

BlueHen86 wrote:The should pull the starters, but continue to play their game. If that means continuing to press, so be it. A running clock is also a good idea.

This isn't the pro's. These kids should also be learning about sportmanship. Allowing your starters to stay in the game and run up the score against an inferior opponent is not sporting.

That's the thing I don't know BH is how much did they play and how do you decide if they played enough or not enough considering that you as a coach are working with the balance of coaching for more than just this game and it's outcome at that point.

As I said the box score as far as how many minutes the starters played would be useful but even if they played 75% of the game I couldn't bag on the coach for that. I also couldn't bag on the players for just flat out being better than their counterparts and wanting to show it.

I have no problem with the players. I would expect each player to play at 100% while they are in the game.

In general I would hope that at some point in the second half, with a 50+ point lead, the coach would pull his starters - but I wouldn't fire a coach who left his starters in.

TexasTerror wrote:
The team that lost 170-35 is a unique case in Texas HS athletics.

The school is mostly international kids and a few years ago, scrapped their HS football program. Their most popular sport? Soccer! They have homecoming during soccer and are one of the better schools in the area and state in the sport.

When it comes to the other sports they play in - like basketball and baseball, they get their heads kicked in pretty good. The Yates coach acknowledged that they could score 200 on them or the team they ended up scoring 154 on.

[

Well then it sound to me like they were already laying off those two teams and only giving an 85% and a 77% effort.

There is never a cry about a team that holds another one down in scoring but if the offense rolls it up then they are a bunch of dicks.

Playing another defense would have helped but they didn't want to be scored on and I'm sure that made for easy points.

TexasTerror wrote:

My problem lies in pressing for the full game. I know you want to run your defensive scheme and work on what you are putting into play - but is it really necessary?

That's my only problem. Your press is obviously working, and generally the press is used late in the game, against poor ball handlers and slow offensive teams... obviously these two teams were probably the latter two points. There's no need to continue the press once your up by that much, it's obvious your defensive scheme worked, why not sit back and "practice" some other defensive schemes/set plays too.



EDIT: Or just a rehash of what Urpus said.

Ursus A. Horribilis wrote:[
Yeah, they could lay off the press and I don't know if they did at some point or not. It would be a perfect time to work on another defense.

I'm not finding the stats for the last game but in the game before that where they scored 154 it looks like the leading scorer was Joseph Young and he had 27 points. Doesn't appear that they overused him from that stat but Max prep may not have it right.

Ursus A. Horribilis wrote:I'm not finding the stats for the last game but in the game before that where they scored 154 it looks like the leading scorer was Joseph Young and he had 27 points. Doesn't appear that they overused him from that stat but Max prep may not have it right.

Young was in the game halfway through the fourth quarter!

From the Houston Chronicle, "With 5:58 left in the fourth, Yates stretched its lead to 101 points when Young nailed a jumper from behind the arc. On the next play, Young went above the rim for a two-handed throwdown before going to the bench for good."

TexasTerror wrote:

Ursus A. Horribilis wrote:I'm not finding the stats for the last game but in the game before that where they scored 154 it looks like the leading scorer was Joseph Young and he had 27 points. Doesn't appear that they overused him from that stat but Max prep may not have it right.

Young was in the game halfway through the fourth quarter!

From the Houston Chronicle, "With 5:58 left in the fourth, Yates stretched its lead to 101 points when Young nailed a jumper from behind the arc. On the next play, Young went above the rim for a two-handed throwdown before going to the bench for good."

Doesn't necessarily mean he was playing the whole time... they could have benched him for a while.

JMU DJ wrote:

TexasTerror wrote:
Young was in the game halfway through the fourth quarter!

From the Houston Chronicle, "With 5:58 left in the fourth, Yates stretched its lead to 101 points when Young nailed a jumper from behind the arc. On the next play, Young went above the rim for a two-handed throwdown before going to the bench for good."

Doesn't necessarily mean he was playing the whole time... they could have benched him for a while.

That's where I was going all along. I would like to see how many minutes the starting 5 played not just that there were sightings of them in the game at this point. IF he's the leading scorer with 27 pts. then it doesn't look to me like he was being overused.

usually pressing teams play a great deal of players
bring me in box scores before passing judgment
seems to see this is a administrative problem
move the others teams down a division
otherwise leave the kids on the winning team trying to get a scholly alone
if the leading scorer had 27, then the other four starters could not have had more than 26 points apiece
so thats a maximum of 130 points from the starters so seems to me the others players got plenty of action

I don't really have a problem with this and I once was on the losing end of a 96-27 game. I enjoyed the challenge. (It was 3 on 5 btw, since only 3 of us showed up for the game....)

FWIW I was on a team that won games 123-20, 97-18, 102-21.

However, a lot of that was payback from our coach. My high school team was bad for years. The coach I played for, and is still there, came in in 2002 and started turning the program around and changing the culture of the team. However we had been beaten by similar scores for YEARS. So my senior year when we won the state title it turned into a revenge type season in the conference. We went 14-3 in conference and won games by an average score of 82-35. The schools started demanding public apologies from the school, coach, and players and written letters of apology to the newspapers. We politely said no and beat them by 50 the next time out again.

clenz wrote:FWIW I was on a team that won games 123-20, 97-18, 102-21.

However, a lot of that was payback from our coach. My high school team was bad for years. The coach I played for, and is still there, came in in 2002 and started turning the program around and changing the culture of the team. However we had been beaten by similar scores for YEARS. So my senior year when we won the state title it turned into a revenge type season in the conference. We went 14-3 in conference and won games by an average score of 82-35. The schools started demanding public apologies from the school, coach, and players and written letters of apology to the newspapers. We politely said no and beat them by 50 the next time out again.

So, when all was said and done, you stooped to the level of your opponents. While I can understand the mentality of your coach, he missed the opportunity to be classy. By not running up the score you still win, but don't look like jackasses in the process.

My high school hockey team was not allowed to win by more than 13 goals. We had several wins by 13-0 margins. One time one of our players scored on a break away to make it 14-0 in the second period; the player who scored was benched for the rest of the game, as was the player who passed him the puck. I know many of you disagree with me, but I agree with my old coaches philosophy; just because you are capable of embarrasing your opponent, doesn't mean that you have to.

BlueHen86 wrote:

clenz wrote:FWIW I was on a team that won games 123-20, 97-18, 102-21.

However, a lot of that was payback from our coach. My high school team was bad for years. The coach I played for, and is still there, came in in 2002 and started turning the program around and changing the culture of the team. However we had been beaten by similar scores for YEARS. So my senior year when we won the state title it turned into a revenge type season in the conference. We went 14-3 in conference and won games by an average score of 82-35. The schools started demanding public apologies from the school, coach, and players and written letters of apology to the newspapers. We politely said no and beat them by 50 the next time out again.

So, when all was said and done, you stooped to the level of your opponents. While I can understand the mentality of your coach, he missed the opportunity to be classy. By not running up the score you still win, but don't look like jackasses in the process.

My high school hockey team was not allowed to win by more than 13 goals. We had several wins by 13-0 margins. One time one of our players scored on a break away to make it 14-0 in the second period; the player who scored was benched for the rest of the game, as was the player who passed him the puck. I know many of you disagree with me, but I agree with my old coaches philosophy; just because you are capable of embarrasing your opponent, doesn't mean that you have to.

The difference is we pulled the press to start the second half and pulled the starters about halfway through the third quarter.