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The Philadelphia Phillies have won back-to-back NL pennants and were World Champions in 2008.

They have a talented roster, but is there more to their success than talent?

Major League Baseball issued a warning to the Phillies on Tuesday concerning accusations that bullpen coach Mick Billmeyer was stealing signs during Monday night's game against the Colorado Rockies at Coors Field.

"We have looked at the video and talked to the Phillies about the actions of their bullpen coach,'' a Major League Baseball official told FOXSports.com.

"We found the evidence inconclusive on what was being done, but we have spoken to the Phillies about the situation, and the umpires have been told to be on full alert as to what is going on.''

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2010/05/1 ... es-warned/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Like ZOMG!!! Baseball coaches stealing signs!

Awwwww, is somebody upset they got beat by the big ol' stinky head Phillies and now they're trying to justify the loss? This is nothing new, the Dodgers and Yanks accused the Phils last year, but as Shane Victorino said... if they were stealing signs, you'd think they'd be hitting a little better vs the Yanks. The MLB has never found any evidence that the Phils are stealing signs, as mentioned in your article too. It's not like they're Joe Mauer standing on second.

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I can't imagine what kind of signals you'd have to use in the bull pen to tip off the batter:

93henfan wrote:Like ZOMG!!! Baseball coaches stealing signs!

I know! Unheard of! Those dastardly dastards.

Baseball should take this seriously and take away that 2008 championship and give the trophy to the Rays. You know, kind of like when the Patriots filmed their opponents and the NFL took away all their Super Bowls and gave the trophies to the Eagles, Panthers, and Rams.

JMU DJ wrote:

Awwwww, is somebody upset they got beat by the big ol' stinky head Phillies and now they're trying to justify the loss? This is nothing new, the Dodgers and Yanks accused the Phils last year, but as Shane Victorino said... if they were stealing signs, you'd think they'd be hitting a little better vs the Yanks. The MLB has never found any evidence that the Phils are stealing signs, as mentioned in your article too. It's not like they're Joe Mauer standing on second.

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I can't imagine what kind of signals you'd have to use in the bull pen to tip off the batter:

Show me where Joe is stealing signs.

clenz wrote: Show me where Joe is stealing signs.

You're joking, right? You're not seeing him making hand signals to his head after every catcher signal?

93henfan wrote:

clenz wrote: Show me where Joe is stealing signs.

You're joking, right? You're not seeing him making hand signals to his head after every catcher signal?

Maybe Baby Jesus's helmet wasn't fitting right. After all, he is baby Jesus, if he really wanted to "Steal signs" he would just tell Kuebel what pitch was coming in his mind.

clenz wrote: Show me where Joe is stealing signs.

I thought I'd lure out a Clenz. First, that was a video posted by a Twins fan saying that Mauer was stealing sings. Second, it's pretty obvious. Catcher signals the pitch, Joe touches his helmet.

“I’m not saying we’re out there trying to steal signs, but I hope we are,” Gardenhire said. “I hope that they’re out there trying to steal signs. Because that’s the game. Everybody does it.”

JMU DJ wrote:

clenz wrote: Show me where Joe is stealing signs.

I thought I'd lure out a Clenz. First, that was a video posted by a Twins fan saying that Mauer was stealing sings. Second, it's pretty obvious. Catcher signals the pitch, Joe touches his helmet.

“I’m not saying we’re out there trying to steal signs, but I hope we are,” Gardenhire said. “I hope that they’re out there trying to steal signs. Because that’s the game. Everybody does it.”

I'm fully aware of what Joe was doing. He does it differently this year. If you watch the Twins games, which I don't get to see live (fuck you MLB) but I do get the replays that come an hour after the game. If you watch Joe on second, or any Twin for that matter, there are some pretty good signs going back and forth between the hitter and runner.


However, just to play along with the thread:

Baby Jesus does nothing wrong!

Stealing signs (without the aid of cameras and such) = completely legal in baseball, btw. Of course, so is throwing a 95 mph fastball at the face of the guy that steals signs.

clenz wrote:

However, just to play along with the thread:

Baby Jesus does nothing wrong!

Touche. You are correct. What was I thinking?

Barring a guy in the bullpen watching the TV feed and calling the dugout, I just can't see how a guy in the bullpen can steal signs reliably. But that's hardly worth the effort; it can more easily be done in the dugout itself or even the clubhouse, if one REALLY wants to use a camera. To me, if one REALLY wants to cheat, it's a whole lot easier to get a guy on second and have him do it. At that point, all the defense has to do is change signs, and if they want, send in heater high and inside. Personally, any of that sign-stealing trash goes against the integrity of the game, but there ARE easier ways to do it than wasting a guy in the pen who should be dealing with the relief pitchers, anyway. The whole idea that a guy out there was stealing signs just blows chunks.

I'm thinking Mick Billmeyer just enjoys baseball and doesn't like sitting way out there behind the fence where he can't see much.

93henfan wrote:Stealing signs (without the aid of cameras and such) = completely legal in baseball, btw. Of course, so is throwing a 95 mph fastball at the face of the guy that steals signs.

Agreed - as long as you don't use articificial means, if you want to steal signs, go for it. Nothing in the rule book against that. A bunch of whining and moaning over something as silly as this.

GannonFan wrote:

93henfan wrote:Stealing signs (without the aid of cameras and such) = completely legal in baseball, btw. Of course, so is throwing a 95 mph fastball at the face of the guy that steals signs.

Agreed - as long as you don't use articificial means, if you want to steal signs, go for it. Nothing in the rule book against that. A bunch of whining and moaning over something as silly as this.

To be fair, would binoculars be "artificial means"?

clenz wrote:

GannonFan wrote:
Agreed - as long as you don't use articificial means, if you want to steal signs, go for it. Nothing in the rule book against that. A bunch of whining and moaning over something as silly as this.

To be fair, would binoculars be "artificial means"?

Sure, if he was stealing signs with them. Someone still needs to show that that's what he was doing. Until then, it's an old man with a bad view of the game all the way out in the bullpen. Heck, I bring binoculars to games and I have better seats and am decades younger than this guy. And I can't make out the catcher's signals from where I am, even with a clear view. You'd think if they wanted to steal signs they'd just watch the game on TV - the view's much better.

There might be a few teams that don't steal signs nowadays. These are just a guess though...

Orioles
Royals
Mariners
Marlins
Astros
Dbacks

bandl wrote:There might be a few teams that don't steal signs nowadays. These are just a guess though...

Orioles
Royals
Mariners
Marlins
Astros
Dbacks

Don't forget the Bucko's.

93henfan wrote:

bandl wrote:There might be a few teams that don't steal signs nowadays. These are just a guess though...

Orioles
Royals
Mariners
Marlins
Astros
Dbacks

Don't forget the Bucko's.

I'm not so sure you see what I did here by picking out these six teams in particular...

GannonFan wrote:

clenz wrote: To be fair, would binoculars be "artificial means"?

Sure, if he was stealing signs with them. Someone still needs to show that that's what he was doing. Until then, it's an old man with a bad view of the game all the way out in the bullpen. Heck, I bring binoculars to games and I have better seats and am decades younger than this guy. And I can't make out the catcher's signals from where I am, even with a clear view. You'd think if they wanted to steal signs they'd just watch the game on TV - the view's much better.

From straight on, with good binocs a catchers signs wouldn't be hard to pick up on and phone to the dug out.

clenz wrote: From straight on, with good binocs a catchers signs wouldn't be hard to pick up on and phone to the dug out.

If the pitcher isn't one of those slow, drag out the game pitchers, this should be no problem.


Stealing Signals Using Binocs from the BP:
1. Get Signal from Catcher
2. Pick up phone, ring dugout. Wait.
3. Manager picks up phone, guy in BP relays pitch to manager.
4. Manager relays signal to 3rd Base Coach
5. 3rd Base Coach sends signal to batter.
6. All the while hope that the catcher doesn't change signals/no one notices that your guy in the BP using Binocs and Manager in the dugout are constantly on the phone with each other when your team is at bat.


I'd believe this accusation if say they were accusing Davey Lopes (1st Base Coach), Sam Perlozzo (3rd Base Coach), or a Philly on 2nd base.

bandl wrote:

93henfan wrote:
Don't forget the Bucko's.

I'm not so sure you see what I did here by picking out these six teams in particular...

Well, at the risk of sounding like uber-geek, if you were going for last place teams, you neglected to include the Braves, who are tied with the Marlins for last in the NL East.

I mentioned the Pirates, because they have been in perpetual suckitude with the Royals for, oh, about 20 years now. In addition, they have a worse record than the Marlins this season, and the Marlins made your list.

93henfan wrote:

bandl wrote:
I'm not so sure you see what I did here by picking out these six teams in particular...

Well, at the risk of sounding like uber-geek, if you were going for last place teams, you neglected to include the Braves, who are tied with the Marlins for last in the NL East.

I mentioned the Pirates, because they have been in perpetual suckitude with the Royals for, oh, about 20 years now. In addition, they have a worse record than the Marlins this season, and the Marlins made your list.

Suck it!

JMU DJ wrote:

clenz wrote: From straight on, with good binocs a catchers signs wouldn't be hard to pick up on and phone to the dug out.

If the pitcher isn't one of those slow, drag out the game pitchers, this should be no problem.


Stealing Signals Using Binocs from the BP:
1. Get Signal from Catcher
2. Pick up phone, ring dugout. Wait.
3. Manager picks up phone, guy in BP relays pitch to manager.
4. Manager relays signal to 3rd Base Coach
5. 3rd Base Coach sends signal to batter.
6. All the while hope that the catcher doesn't change signals/no one notices that your guy in the BP using Binocs and Manager in the dugout are constantly on the phone with each other when your team is at bat.


I'd believe this accusation if say they were accusing Davey Lopes (1st Base Coach), Sam Perlozzo (3rd Base Coach), or a Philly on 2nd base.

Yup, that all sounds doable in the course of the 3-5 seconds from the time the catcher gives the signal to the time that the pitcher delivers the pitch. Amazing how simple all of this is.