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It's been a LONG time since I agreed with anything SI put out, but this certainly qualifies. I don't automatically take the modern-is-better attitude. SI writer Kerry J. Byrne did a statistical analysis that shows that while VERY productive, these two stars do not qualify as the best ever in the NFL at their positions. He begs to posit Browns RB Jim Brown and Packers WR Don Hutson. The arguments bear some consideration.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/w ... d=Fanhouse

My PERSONAL choices would be Tony Dorsett and Drew Pearson, but that goes more to personal loyalty than any statistical advantage. Tony Hill, Elroy Hirsch, and Tom Fears would also be high on my receivers list. For some reason, I really can't come up with other RBs....

SuperHornet wrote:<yada yada> My PERSONAL choices would be Tony Dorsett and Drew Pearson, but that goes more to personal loyalty than any statistical advantage. Tony Hill, Elroy Hirsch, and Tom Fears would also be high on my receivers list.<yada yada>

Have to agree with Brown and Hutson, they both set standards that took years and longer seasons to match.

Gil Dobie wrote:Have to agree with Brown and Hutson, they both set standards that took years and longer seasons to match.

I'm not sure that I agree rergarding Hutson (I do regarding Brown), but the SI article does raise some good points.

Best RB EVER to put on pads and strap on a helmet was Walter Payton. Period.

Guy NEVER had a line in front of him till his career was pretty much over.

Same could be said for Barry Sanders.

Both did what they did all by themselves, never had even a decent team around them.

Gale Sayers was pretty spectacular to watch - agree on Sanders as well.

SuperHornet wrote: My PERSONAL choices would be Tony Dorsett and Drew Pearson, but that goes more to personal loyalty than any statistical advantage.

Really???

OSBF wrote:Best RB EVER to put on pads and strap on a helmet was Walter Payton. Period.

Guy NEVER had a line in front of him till his career was pretty much over.

Same could be said for Barry Sanders.

Both did what they did all by themselves, never had even a decent team around them.

This.

At least SH didn’t list something like Beckie Van Dyke of the Saskatchewan Lady Swashbucklers and Madge "the Wrecking Ball" Ballbanger of the Fargo Fightin’ Felines as his(her) choices.

That's what I was half expecting to see.

BlueHen86 wrote:

Gil Dobie wrote:Have to agree with Brown and Hutson, they both set standards that took years and longer seasons to match.

I'm not sure that I agree rergarding Hutson (I do regarding Brown), but the SI article does raise some good points.

Hutson had the recieving TD record of 99 in 116 games, from 1945 until Largent broke it in 1989. Rice now has the record of 197 in 303 games. Both are on the 75th anniversary team. It was a different game, as Hutson also played defense and had 30 interceptions and kicked 17 Field Goals.

Gil Dobie wrote:

BlueHen86 wrote:
I'm not sure that I agree rergarding Hutson (I do regarding Brown), but the SI article does raise some good points.

Hutson had the recieving TD record of 99 in 116 games, from 1945 until Largent broke it in 1989. Rice now has the record of 197 in 303 games. Both are on the 75th anniversary team. It was a different game, as Hutson also played defense and had 30 interceptions and kicked 17 Field Goals.

I try and stay away from the 'greatest of all time' arguments because the game does change as time goes by, also I never saw many of the old timers play. I can't comment on Hutson because I never saw him play, I will admit that his numbers are impressive. Rice was the greatest WR I ever saw.

The best RB I ever saw is tougher to call, it's probably between Barry Sanders, Walter Peyton or OJ Simpson with Simpson getting the edge.

BlueHen86 wrote:The best RB I ever saw is tougher to call, it's probably between Barry Sanders, Walter Peyton or OJ Simpson with Simpson getting the edge.

Sanders was quicker and Payton was stronger, but OJ Simpson was certainly the most elusive slasher out of that bunch.

I'd go with Payton. But GD Emmitt ran roughshod all over my Redskins his entire career. But as has been said Emmitt had one of the finest o-lines ever, Payton did not.

As for WR, I think much like RBs and offensive lines you have to consider who was throwing to them. Rice had Montana, who could be in the conversation of QBs. And in a new offensive system, in the west coast offense, that was just emerging. That said, he wasn't the fastest WR out there. And it's hard for me to think of someone better. Largent? I'd say the two of them are 1a and 1b, which is which, I haven't a clue.

Although his career was injury-riddled, Earl Campbell was one sick SOB.

[youtube][/youtube]

93henfan wrote:Although his career was injury-riddled, Earl Campbell was one sick SOB.

[youtube][/youtube]

Although many of you didnt' see Jim Brown play, he was a combination of Walter Payton and Earl Campbell. He could run around you, through you and over top of you. Brown was also an all-american in Lacrosse at Syracuse.

Gil Dobie wrote:

93henfan wrote:Although his career was injury-riddled, Earl Campbell was one sick SOB.

[youtube][/youtube]

Although many of you didnt' see Jim Brown play, he was a combination of Walter Payton and Earl Campbell. He could run around you, through you and over top of you. Brown was also an all-american in Lacrosse at Syracuse.

sounds like he was chuck norris before there was a chuck norris

OSBF wrote:

Gil Dobie wrote:
Although many of you didnt' see Jim Brown play, he was a combination of Walter Payton and Earl Campbell. He could run around you, through you and over top of you. Brown was also an all-american in Lacrosse at Syracuse.

sounds like he was chuck norris before there was a chuck norris

He'd eat Chuck Norris for lunch

Some good youtube video
[youtube][/youtube]

93henfan wrote:

BlueHen86 wrote:The best RB I ever saw is tougher to call, it's probably between Barry Sanders, Walter Peyton or OJ Simpson with Simpson getting the edge.

Sanders was quicker and Payton was stronger, but OJ Simpson was certainly the most elusive slasher out of that bunch.

Simpson, Payton and Sanders all played on teams where they were the number one weapon, teams would stuff the box and those guys would still their numbers. They made mediocre teams into good teams.

Emmitt was a great RB, but he had a great O-line, great QB (Aikman) and great WR (Irvin) along side. Teams couldn't game plan to stop Emmitt the way they could against Simpson, Payton and Sanders.

My father says Jim Brown was the best, I believe him, but I was too young to remember seeing Brown play.

I would probably agree. The running backs mentioned above were (IMO) better than Smith.

I, like others, never saw Jim Brown play. Of the players I did see, I'd take Payton and Sanders over Smith every day of the week.

Jerry Rice is by far the GOAT that I ever saw play. Of course he was aided by arguably the greatest QB of all time, arguably the greatest coach of all time, and a brand new system. However, the man still had to go out and beat the best in the game. Dominating in the NFL is never easy, and he did it for YEARS. Rice was just plain nasty. I think, if picking the greatest RB I ever saw, I'd have to go Sanders.

All of you make some pretty good arguments. For Campbell, one could say that most if not all of his injuries were probably caused by running behind a cr@ppy OL. It was hard to bring that dude down. In fact, I once read that unlike many backs, Lester Hayes' secret for bringing Campbell down was to tackle him HIGH. In any case, he certainly delivered a hammer.

For those who want to go by straight stats, as the article writer said, Hutson was dominant against the defenses of his era to a degree that not even Rice could match. To lead the league at his position eight out of ten or eleven years is nothing to sneeze at. The writer called it Ruthian, and I for one agree. One could argue about the change of eras, but I think the dominance against his own era trumps the change of era argument.

Gil Dobie wrote:Some good youtube video
[youtube][/youtube]

Is it just me, or do the players look like they just aren't as fast as they are today?

Pwns wrote:

Gil Dobie wrote:Some good youtube video
[youtube][/youtube]

Is it just me, or do the players look like they just aren't as fast as they are today?

That gets to the arguement that if they had the same training regiment, would they have been as big and fast as players of today. Or you could put today's athletes on 1960's training regiment and see if they are faster. It's hard to say. Henry Carr was an Olympic Sprinter with a 20.4 time in the 200 meters (Bolt 19.19) and 9.3 in the 100 yards and played safety and cornerback in the NFL. Bob Hayes ran the 100 meters in 10.06 and played WR during the 1960's.