NBA ref bets on games, some he worked

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NBA ref bets on games, some he worked

Postby AppGuy04 » Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:30 am


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Re: NBA ref bets on games, some he worked

Postby bluehenbillk » Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:33 am

And in other breaking news the world is round!!! Who would've thunk it the NBA is fixed?
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Re: NBA ref bets on games, some he worked

Postby AppGuy04 » Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:42 am

bluehenbillk wrote:And in other breaking news the world is round!!! Who would've thunk it the NBA is fixed?


It's the Pete Rose effect, he bet on ones he worked, thats the big deal to me

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Re: NBA ref bets on games, some he worked

Postby SuperHornet » Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:20 pm

AppGuy04 wrote:
bluehenbillk wrote:And in other breaking news the world is round!!! Who would've thunk it the NBA is fixed?


It's the Pete Rose effect, he bet on ones he worked, thats the big deal to me


While in general I agree with you, these situations aren't exactly the same. In my mind, a manager/HC doesn't have quite the control over a game that a ref does. A manager could try to bomb the game, but there are two caveats there: his team could get "lucky" and overcome those efforts, and the question is also raised about the other team being able to take advantage of the coach's largesse. If a manager tries to throw a game to an inept team, it might not work.

A ref/ump, on the other hand, has a LOT more control. Yes, the favored team has to take advantage. But if it looks like the non-favored team is going to win, the ref can start making bogus calls both in favor of the favored team and against the non-favored team to remove FGs/TDs/etc. Just look at the USA-USSR basketball game. That was probably the ultimate in ref screw jobs.

That said, it's VERY hard to prove this without a confession. The standard is usually that taking $$ to fix a game is enough, although that doesn't take into account a "change of heart" before the game starts or after it begins. (While it's fiction, one doesn't have to look much past Paul Crewe.) There's also not much proof that the Chicago Black Sox "really" threw the World Series to the Reds, although most of the folk actually accepted gangsta $$. One of the guys actually had a WS average over .360; it's kinda hard to prove point-shaving with an average that high. It's also hard to prove ref misconduct. Umps are human and miss calls all the time. It's kinda hard to prove that calls were blown intentionally as opposed to plain incompetence or just being human.
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Re: NBA ref bets on games, some he worked

Postby AppGuy04 » Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:26 pm

SuperHornet wrote:
AppGuy04 wrote:
bluehenbillk wrote:And in other breaking news the world is round!!! Who would've thunk it the NBA is fixed?


It's the Pete Rose effect, he bet on ones he worked, thats the big deal to me


While in general I agree with you, these situations aren't exactly the same. In my mind, a manager/HC doesn't have quite the control over a game that a ref does. A manager could try to bomb the game, but there are two caveats there: his team could get "lucky" and overcome those efforts, and the question is also raised about the other team being able to take advantage of the coach's largesse. If a manager tries to throw a game to an inept team, it might not work.

A ref/ump, on the other hand, has a LOT more control. Yes, the favored team has to take advantage. But if it looks like the non-favored team is going to win, the ref can start making bogus calls both in favor of the favored team and against the non-favored team to remove FGs/TDs/etc. Just look at the USA-USSR basketball game. That was probably the ultimate in ref screw jobs.

That said, it's VERY hard to prove this without a confession. The standard is usually that taking $$ to fix a game is enough, although that doesn't take into account a "change of heart" before the game starts or after it begins. (While it's fiction, one doesn't have to look much past Paul Crewe.) There's also not much proof that the Chicago Black Sox "really" threw the World Series to the Reds, although most of the folk actually accepted gangsta $$. One of the guys actually had a WS average over .360; it's kinda hard to prove point-shaving with an average that high. It's also hard to prove ref misconduct. Umps are human and miss calls all the time. It's kinda hard to prove that calls were blown intentionally as opposed to plain incompetence or just being human.


They may not be able to conclude that calls were bogus, but they can determine what games he bet on and if he was working said games. Thats enough for me

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Re: NBA ref bets on games, some he worked

Postby SuperHornet » Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:32 pm

To me, that's enough to question his ethics and perhaps terminate him. But it's not enough to substantiate that he actually did anything to throw the games one way or the other. They would have to prove THAT to get him into jail, I would think. It's THEORETICALLY possible to have $$ on the game and call it fairly. The problem with that is that is if word gets out, a fairly called game that ends with him winning the bet will have the "appearance" of being a biased game, while a fairly called game that ends with him losing means he loses $$. Either way, he loses. It's just not worth it.

Of course, he's probably done, anyway. We already know that the NBA has corrupt refs. Remember the mass tax evasion from cashing in first class airplane tickets? The NBA will probably fire the guy to "protect" it's non-existent image over the ethics question whether he legitimately threw the games or not.
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Re: NBA ref bets on games, some he worked

Postby AppGuy04 » Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:38 pm

SuperHornet wrote:To me, that's enough to question his ethics and perhaps terminate him. But it's not enough to substantiate that he actually did anything to throw the games one way or the other. They would have to prove THAT to get him into jail, I would think. It's THEORETICALLY possible to have $$ on the game and call it fairly. The problem with that is that is if word gets out, a fairly called game that ends with him winning the bet will have the "appearance" of being a biased game, while a fairly called game that ends with him losing means he loses $$. Either way, he loses. It's just not worth it.

Of course, he's probably done, anyway. We already know that the NBA has corrupt refs. Remember the mass tax evasion from cashing in first class airplane tickets? The NBA will probably fire the guy to "protect" it's non-existent image over the ethics question whether he legitimately threw the games or not.


Yeah, he will def be fired, who knows from there

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Re: NBA ref bets on games, some he worked

Postby lifesapuntreturn » Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:52 pm

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2943095

According to this story, he's already resigned.
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Re: NBA ref bets on games, some he worked

Postby AppGuy04 » Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:15 pm

lifesapuntreturn wrote:http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2943095

According to this story, he's already resigned.


Saving face :roll:

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Re: NBA ref bets on games, some he worked

Postby bluehenbillk » Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:22 pm

This ref is from my backyard, if I went to a Catholic HS it was the one he went to.
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Re: NBA ref bets on games, some he worked

Postby BigApp » Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:30 pm

getting fired/resigning is the least of this guys' worries right now. This story is going to have many more tentacles when it's all said and done
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Re: NBA ref bets on games, some he worked

Postby NDSUFREAK » Fri Jul 20, 2007 8:36 pm

Phoenix Suns will save the league! :D :D
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Re: NBA ref bets on games, some he worked

Postby lifesapuntreturn » Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:38 pm

I can't wait until Mark Cuban weighs in on this. He's constantly complaining about the quality of officiating in the NBA anyway, now he's really going to hammer Stern and the league.
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Re: NBA ref bets on games, some he worked

Postby dbackjon » Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:00 am

Game 3 - SUNS/Sp*rs - Donahay made bogus calls on Stoudamire early, knocking him out of the game. Us Phx Suns fans were calling him out back then. He and Stern gave the series, and the title to the Sp*rs.
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