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http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=A ... oung111810" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Stats are everything

It's amusing that the Math League Geek movement calls people who are concerned about who WINS "anachronistic."

I'm with Roy Halladay. He said you gotta find a way to win in order to deserve the Cy Young.

I asked Halladay about this on his conference call Tuesday, figuring his opinion would be revealing. It was, and I think it reflects the majority opinion of people in uniform. That is, wins still matter a lot.

“It’s tough,” Halladay said. “Obviously Felix’s numbers are very, very impressive. But I think, ultimately, you look at how guys are able to win games. Sometimes the run support isn’t there, but you sometimes just find ways to win games. I think the guys that are winning and helping their teams deserve a strong look, regardless of how good Felix’s numbers are. It definitely could go either way; it’s going to be interesting. But I think when teams bring guys over, they want them to, ultimately at the end of the day, help them win games.”

This argument is between the Geeks and the players. I think the players know what they're talking about.

Felix won 3 games against the Yankees, matching up against Vasquez twice and Burnett once. Seattle outscored the Yankees 17-1 in those 3 games. Seattle needed to hit against those 2 pitchers all year it looks like.

Even the title of this thread amuses me. "Wins not everything." Where have you gone Vince Lombardi?

JoltinJoe wrote:It's amusing that the Math League Geek movement calls people who are concerned about who WINS "anachronistic."

I'm with Roy Halladay. He said you gotta find a way to win in order to deserve the Cy Young.

I asked Halladay about this on his conference call Tuesday, figuring his opinion would be revealing. It was, and I think it reflects the majority opinion of people in uniform. That is, wins still matter a lot.

“It’s tough,” Halladay said. “Obviously Felix’s numbers are very, very impressive. But I think, ultimately, you look at how guys are able to win games. Sometimes the run support isn’t there, but you sometimes just find ways to win games. I think the guys that are winning and helping their teams deserve a strong look, regardless of how good Felix’s numbers are. It definitely could go either way; it’s going to be interesting. But I think when teams bring guys over, they want them to, ultimately at the end of the day, help them win games.”

This argument is between the Geeks and the players. I think the players know what they're talking about.

But it's always been the Geeks that decide this award. I am pleasantly suprized that they got this right, Felix was the best pitcher in the AL this year.

BlueHen86 wrote:

JoltinJoe wrote:It's amusing that the Math League Geek movement calls people who are concerned about who WINS "anachronistic."

I'm with Roy Halladay. He said you gotta find a way to win in order to deserve the Cy Young.

I asked Halladay about this on his conference call Tuesday, figuring his opinion would be revealing. It was, and I think it reflects the majority opinion of people in uniform. That is, wins still matter a lot.

“It’s tough,” Halladay said. “Obviously Felix’s numbers are very, very impressive. But I think, ultimately, you look at how guys are able to win games. Sometimes the run support isn’t there, but you sometimes just find ways to win games. I think the guys that are winning and helping their teams deserve a strong look, regardless of how good Felix’s numbers are. It definitely could go either way; it’s going to be interesting. But I think when teams bring guys over, they want them to, ultimately at the end of the day, help them win games.”

This argument is between the Geeks and the players. I think the players know what they're talking about.

..

But it's always been the Geeks that decide this award. I am pleasantly suprized that they got this right, Felix was the best pitcher in the AL this year.

But your guy Halladay says you have to find a way to win .

JoltinJoe wrote:

BlueHen86 wrote: ..

But it's always been the Geeks that decide this award. I am pleasantly suprized that they got this right, Felix was the best pitcher in the AL this year.

But your guy Halladay says you have to find a way to win .

Halladay did find a way to win, he signed with the Phillies.

Joe, it's tough to get wins when your team doesn't give you run support.


This article is from Sept, and I think he made 2 more starts after this article

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/t ... cy_yo.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Last Start -- Suffered a tough-luck loss throwing a CG 2-hitter in a 1-0 defeat 9/23 at Toronto...only run allowed came on a first-inning home run by Jose Bautista...over his last 2 starts has allowed only 5 hits and 2 runs in 16.0 IP, including carrying a no-hitter into the 8th inning in his start 9/17 vs. Texas.

Last 9 Starts -- Over his last 9 starts (since 8/10) is 5-3 with a 0.94 ERA (7 ER, 67.1 IP).

He gave up less than a run per game in his last 9 starts and still suffered 3 losses.

In 12 losses, has received 7 total runs of support (runs scored when he is in the game)...Mariners have scored 1 or fewer runs in 10 of 33 starts, and 2 or fewer runs 15 times...Mariners have not scored a run behind Felix in 7 of his last 13 starts...has the lowest run support average in the AL this season (3.09).

Scoreless Frames -- Has not allowed a run in 202 of 248 innings pitched in (not total IP)...allowed 1 or fewer runs in 228 of 248 innings (91.9%)...most scoreless frames in a season since CC Sabathia had 206 in 2008.

AL Leaders -- Among AL starters, ranks 1st in ERA (2.31), 1st in innings pitched (241.2), 1st in strikeouts (227), 1st in quality starts (29), T1st in starts (33), 3rd in complete games (6), 3rd in opponents batting average (.213), T3rd in shutouts (1), 7th in K/9.0 IP (8.45), 8th in K/BB ratio (3.34) and T7th in opponent GIDP (23).

Top 5 -- Is the only pitcher who ranks top 5 in the AL in innings (1st), strikeouts (1st), ERA (1st) and opponent average (3rd).

Pretty Stingy -- Leads the AL with 14 starts where he has allowed 1 or less runs in at least 7.0 innings...lasted at least 8.0 innings in 15 starts, including an AL leading 5 starts of 8.0 shutout innings...has 12 starts allowing 1 or fewer runs in 8.0 or more IP.

Post All-Star Break -- Has a 1.56 ERA (18 ER, 104.0 IP) in 14 starts following the All-Star break...currently the 3rd-lowest by an AL starter post-ASG over the last 25 years: R. Clemens (0.97 in '90), J. Santana (1.21 in '04), J. Santana (1.59 in '05).

August -- Went 3-2 with AL-leading 0.82 ERA (4 ER, 43.2 IP) in 6 August starts - 2 LOSSES WITH A .82 ERA



CC wouldn't have more wins than Felix if he played for the M's either.

JoltinJoe wrote:Even the title of this thread amuses me. "Wins not everything." Where have you gone Vince Lombardi?

Vince Lombardi? Is Hernandez a QB now? He had very little control over the offensive production of his team, you .

Grizalltheway wrote:

JoltinJoe wrote:Even the title of this thread amuses me. "Wins not everything." Where have you gone Vince Lombardi?

Vince Lombardi? Is Hernandez a QB now? He had very little control over the offensive production of his team, you .

So King Felix has an excuse, so we give him the trophy. So a low ERA and an excuse now gets you Cy Young.

Next, some guy with 65 RBI will get the MVP.

"But his BA with RISP was .388, so if his teammates had gone on base more often, he would have had as many RBI as the league leaders. Besides, his WAR was 7.1, and he was second at his position in UZR and second in runs saved."

I can't decide if this makes you a or . Probably both.

JoltinJoe wrote:

Grizalltheway wrote:
Vince Lombardi? Is Hernandez a QB now? He had very little control over the offensive production of his team, you .

So King Felix has an excuse, so we give him the trophy. So a low ERA and an excuse now gets you Cy Young.

Next, some guy with 65 RBI will get the MVP.
"But his BA with RISP was .388, so if his teammates had gone on base more often, he would have had as many RBI as the league leaders. Besides, his WAR was 7.1, and he was second at his position in UZR and second in runs saved."

I can't decide if this makes you a or . Probably both.

If the guy is a lead off hitter with a BA over .400 I'd consider him for the MVP regardless of RBI.

JoltinJoe wrote:

Grizalltheway wrote:
Vince Lombardi? Is Hernandez a QB now? He had very little control over the offensive production of his team, you .

So King Felix has an excuse, so we give him the trophy. So a low ERA and an excuse now gets you Cy Young.

Next, some guy with 65 RBI will get the MVP.

"But his BA with RISP was .388, so if his teammates had gone on base more often, he would have had as many RBI as the league leaders. Besides, his WAR was 7.1, and he was second at his position in UZR and second in runs saved."

I can't decide if this makes you a or . Probably both.

If a guy with 65 RBI had a 7.1 WAR and a high UZR he's going to get some attention because he was doing something other than just knocking in a few runs.

But you're right, we should just give the best Yankee at each position their respective prize for being a Yankee on the Yankees and playing Yankee ball which is to win, which is what the Yankees do.

Once again, you guys are over my head with the stat acronyms.

ToTheLeft wrote:

JoltinJoe wrote:
So King Felix has an excuse, so we give him the trophy. So a low ERA and an excuse now gets you Cy Young.

Next, some guy with 65 RBI will get the MVP.

"But his BA with RISP was .388, so if his teammates had gone on base more often, he would have had as many RBI as the league leaders. Besides, his WAR was 7.1, and he was second at his position in UZR and second in runs saved."

I can't decide if this makes you a or . Probably both.

If a guy with 65 RBI had a 7.1 WAR and a high UZR he's going to get some attention because he was doing something other than just knocking in a few runs.

But you're right, we should just give the best Yankee at each position their respective prize for being a Yankee on the Yankees and playing Yankee ball which is to win, which is what the Yankees do.

Except in 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008 and 2010.

AZGrizFan wrote:

ToTheLeft wrote:
If a guy with 65 RBI had a 7.1 WAR and a high UZR he's going to get some attention because he was doing something other than just knocking in a few runs.

But you're right, we should just give the best Yankee at each position their respective prize for being a Yankee on the Yankees and playing Yankee ball which is to win, which is what the Yankees do.

Except in 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008 and 2010.

Indeed, and what a great decade this has been - started off with Mariano blowing a save in Game 7 of a World Series, saw the Yanks make history by being the first team to ever blow a 3-0 lead (Mariano blowing a save started that collapse), and saw them just raped by a Rangers team to end the decade. That's a grand total of $2.2 billion dollars and just one measley WS title to show for it. Priceless.

GannonFan wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote:
Except in 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008 and 2010.

Indeed, and what a great decade this has been - started off with Mariano blowing a save in Game 7 of a World Series, saw the Yanks make history by being the first team to ever blow a 3-0 lead (Mariano blowing a save started that collapse), and saw them just raped by a Rangers team to end the decade. That's a grand total of $2.2 billion dollars and just one measley WS title to show for it. Priceless.

It's amazing how you view "failure". You're a Phillies fan -- the all-time biggest losers.

The Yankees were the team of the 2000 decade. Two World Titles, nine playoff appearances, 4 AL championships, 8 AL championships, including seven in a row (2000-2006).

I guess there is really no comparison with former Cy Young winners on losing teams with poor run support. Carlton is what I think of when I think of Cy Young.

Today's pitchers just don't have what it takes I guess.

1972 Steve Carlton
27-10, 1.97 ERA, 310 K's
Phillies Runs Scored 503, Team Batting Average .236

2010 Felix Hernandez
13-10, 2.27 ERA, 232 K's
Mariners Runs Scored 513, Team Batting Average .236

Gil Dobie wrote:I guess there is really no comparison with former Cy Young winners on losing teams with poor run support. Carlton is what I think of when I think of Cy Young.

Today's pitchers just don't have what it takes I guess.
1972 Steve Carlton
27-10, 1.97 ERA, 310 K's
Phillies Runs Scored 503, Team Batting Average .236

2010 Felix Hernandez
13-10, 2.27 ERA, 232 K's
Mariners Runs Scored 513, Team Batting Average .236

Perhaps not. Today's starter go every 5th day, in 1972 they went every 4th day.
Runs per game in 1972 was 7.37, in 2010 it was 8.77.

Maybe pitchers were better in 1972, lucky for Felix he only had to contend with 2010 pitchers for the Cy Young.

ToTheLeft wrote:

JoltinJoe wrote:
So King Felix has an excuse, so we give him the trophy. So a low ERA and an excuse now gets you Cy Young.

Next, some guy with 65 RBI will get the MVP.

"But his BA with RISP was .388, so if his teammates had gone on base more often, he would have had as many RBI as the league leaders. Besides, his WAR was 7.1, and he was second at his position in UZR and second in runs saved."

I can't decide if this makes you a or . Probably both.

If a guy with 65 RBI had a 7.1 WAR and a high UZR he's going to get some attention because he was doing something other than just knocking in a few runs.

But you're right, we should just give the best Yankee at each position their respective prize for being a Yankee on the Yankees and playing Yankee ball which is to win, which is what the Yankees do.

Ya and if he had high "owijflasdj" and a low "alksdjfoaisd;oaidj" he'd also get some attention.