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WINNERS
Phillies: DUH!

Red Sox: Anytime a top of the rotation guy is kept from rival New York its a good day, when its a lefty ace just days after your lineup became a bit lefty heavy its a great day.

Rangers: Yes they were bidding for him, but the money can be better used elsewhere and the team is still the tops in its division even without Lee. Plus they get some draft picks.


LOSERS
Yankees: There is no plan B, there is no plan C and there is no plan D. Best option available on the market is Carl Pavano and even the Yankees arent crazy enough to go there again. The only counter move they have made to the Red Sox so far is signing Russell Martin... Folks... unless the Yankees pull off a major trade... they will be looking up at Boston all season...

NL East: Marlin Logan Morrison took to twitter this morning and said this... "Can I tell you how excited I am to face R2C2?! *Breaking News* Logan Morrison goes hitless vs Phillies until his 30th bday" You can bet most of the NL East is of the same oppinion.

CC Sabathia: Had Lee gotten megabucks from the Yankees, Sabathia might have opted out of his deal after the season and hit a bigger payday either with the Yankees or someone else. Instead he is stuck with Phil Hughes as the only quality arms in the rotation... He may still yet opt out of his deal after the season.

If we want to have a serious discussion about this, the Phils have put together what appears to be baseball's best rotation for next season. But remember that the Red Sox were supposed to have baseball's best rotation at the start of the 2010, and look what happened.

Halladay will be great, better than he ever was in the AL, and Lee is likely to be nearly as good. But Lee missed a lot of time in 2010 with a back injury ... and back injuries have a way of recurring and getting worse over time.

Hamels was great in the 2d half of 2010, but he was awful in 2009 and not so hot in the first half of 2010. Oswalt was unbelievable for the Phils after coming over from Houston, but his last seasons in Houston were not so memorable.

In a best case scenario, all four hit on all fours, but in a worst case scenario, Lee misses 8-10 starts, while Hamels and Oswalt revert to what they were prior to the second half of 2010.

Assuming that all four hit on close to all fours, where does this rotation stand in historical context? In my memory, certainly not as good as the Baltimore rotation of the early 70s (Palmer, Cuellar, McNally & Dobson), not as good as the As of the early-70s (Hunter, Blue, & Holtzman), and not as good as the Braves of the 90s (Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz and (Avery, Millword, etc). (Before my time really, but the Dodgers of the early 60s probably have this rotation beat too).

So I think this might be the fourth best rotation put together in the last 40 years? What say you?

Cliff Lee is a winner, it's much easier to pitch in the National League.

Gil Dobie wrote:Cliff Lee is a winner, it's much easier to pitch in the National League.

Where do you rate this rotation, Gil? You agree with my assessment?

I would add joltinjoe to the losers list.

DJH wrote:I would add joltinjoe to the losers list.

Says the fan of Northern Iowa ...

If I were the Phillies, I'd make sure to give all those pitchers plenty of rest during the season. They are going to have no trouble making the playoffs, so I'd just make sure you have all those 4 guys healthy come playoff time.

JoltinJoe wrote:

Gil Dobie wrote:Cliff Lee is a winner, it's much easier to pitch in the National League.

Where do you rate this rotation, Gil? You agree with my assessment?

Going to have to see how they perform to compare them to the all-time great staffs.

The Braves rotations may end up with 3 HOFers, not sure Philly will have more than 1 in this group (Halliday)
The 1972 A's also had Blue Moon Odom with Rollie Fingers in the pen.
The 1966 Dodgers had 3 HOFers in Koufax, Drysdale and Sutton with Claude Osteen 17-14
The 1954 Indians also had 3 HOFers with Bob Lemon, Early Wynn and Bob Feller

Staff I thought was great was the mid 1960's Cleveland Indians with Sudden Sam McDowell, Luis Tiant, Steve Hargen, Gary Bell and Sonny Siebert

Gil Dobie wrote:

JoltinJoe wrote:
Where do you rate this rotation, Gil? You agree with my assessment?

Going to have to see how they perform to compare them to the all-time great staffs.

The Braves rotations may end up with 3 HOFers, not sure Philly will have more than 1 in this group (Halliday)
The 1972 A's also had Blue Moon Odom with Rollie Fingers in the pen.
The 1966 Dodgers had 3 HOFers in Koufax, Drysdale and Sutton with Claude Osteen 17-14
The 1954 Indians also had 3 HOFers with Bob Lemon, Early Wynn and Bob Feller

Staff I thought was great was the mid 1960's Cleveland Indians with Sudden Sam McDowell, Luis Tiant, Steve Hargen, Gary Bell and Sonny Siebert

Some great staffs there.

BY '72, Blue Moon Odom was in decline. Still that staff, led by Catfish Hunter, was pretty amazing.

JoltinJoe wrote:

Gil Dobie wrote:
Going to have to see how they perform to compare them to the all-time great staffs.

The Braves rotations may end up with 3 HOFers, not sure Philly will have more than 1 in this group (Halliday)
The 1972 A's also had Blue Moon Odom with Rollie Fingers in the pen.
The 1966 Dodgers had 3 HOFers in Koufax, Drysdale and Sutton with Claude Osteen 17-14
The 1954 Indians also had 3 HOFers with Bob Lemon, Early Wynn and Bob Feller

Staff I thought was great was the mid 1960's Cleveland Indians with Sudden Sam McDowell, Luis Tiant, Steve Hargen, Gary Bell and Sonny Siebert

Some great staffs there.

BY '72, Blue Moon Odom was in decline. Still that staff, led by Catfish Hunter, was pretty amazing.

Hey! I have a personalized, autographed baseball from Catfish Hunter...

Anybody know if it's worth anything?

JoltinJoe wrote:

Gil Dobie wrote:
Going to have to see how they perform to compare them to the all-time great staffs.

The Braves rotations may end up with 3 HOFers, not sure Philly will have more than 1 in this group (Halliday)
The 1972 A's also had Blue Moon Odom with Rollie Fingers in the pen.
The 1966 Dodgers had 3 HOFers in Koufax, Drysdale and Sutton with Claude Osteen 17-14
The 1954 Indians also had 3 HOFers with Bob Lemon, Early Wynn and Bob Feller

Staff I thought was great was the mid 1960's Cleveland Indians with Sudden Sam McDowell, Luis Tiant, Steve Hargen, Gary Bell and Sonny Siebert

Some great staffs there.

BY '72, Blue Moon Odom was in decline. Still that staff, led by Catfish Hunter, was pretty amazing.

The 1972 A's also had 2 pitchers on the final legs named Denny McLain and Joe Horlen.

SunCoastBlueHen wrote:

JoltinJoe wrote:
Some great staffs there.

BY '72, Blue Moon Odom was in decline. Still that staff, led by Catfish Hunter, was pretty amazing.

Hey! I have a personalized, autographed baseball from Catfish Hunter...

Anybody know if it's worth anything?

Looks like they are going from $35-45 on ebay. He appeared at a show in St Paul about 15 years ago with Tom Seaver, Al Kaline, George Kell.

If Katie Couric is to be believed, a potential factor in Lee's decision may have been the way NY fans treated his wife when he came to town with the Rangers.

SuperHornet wrote:If Katie Couric is to be believed, a potential factor in Lee's decision may have been the way NY fans treated his wife when he came to town with the Rangers.

good, it should have been a factor. Total classless assholes at that game.

Gil Dobie wrote:

JoltinJoe wrote:
Where do you rate this rotation, Gil? You agree with my assessment?

Going to have to see how they perform to compare them to the all-time great staffs.

The Braves rotations may end up with 3 HOFers, not sure Philly will have more than 1 in this group (Halliday)
The 1972 A's also had Blue Moon Odom with Rollie Fingers in the pen.
The 1966 Dodgers had 3 HOFers in Koufax, Drysdale and Sutton with Claude Osteen 17-14
The 1954 Indians also had 3 HOFers with Bob Lemon, Early Wynn and Bob Feller

Staff I thought was great was the mid 1960's Cleveland Indians with Sudden Sam McDowell, Luis Tiant, Steve Hargen, Gary Bell and Sonny Siebert

Good picks. Don't forget the Orioles in 1971. Four twenty game winners in Cuellar, McNally, Dobson and Palmer.

AshevilleApp wrote: Good picks. Don't forget the Orioles in 1971. Four twenty game winners in Cuellar, McNally, Dobson and Palmer.

It is great to have 4 pitchers win 20 games, probably the next level down from a Koufax, Drysdale, Sutton staff, IMO.

Loser: Jayson Werth

89Hen wrote:Loser: Jayson Werth

Well, he better hope all that money comforts him as he has to face this pitching staff almost 20 times every year. But hey, maybe the Phils will clinch the division when they're in Washington and he'll get to relive some memories while watching the Phils celebrate out on the field. Good times.

GannonFan wrote:

89Hen wrote:Loser: Jayson Werth

Well, he better hope all that money comforts him as he has to face this pitching staff almost 20 times every year. But hey, maybe the Phils will clinch the division when they're in Washington and he'll get to relive some memories while watching the Phils celebrate out on the field. Good times.

At least he has his own ace in Stephan Strasburg...

89Hen wrote:Loser: Jayson Werth

I wish Werth well. I don't think the Phillies would have been able to sign Lee if Werth had stayed. Werth already had his W.S. ring and this was his chance to get paid. He probably should have taken less money to play for a contender, but I can't fault him for taking the money.