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Alomar had 90% of the vote. Blyleven gets 79%.

McGwire, Palmiero and Bagwell all under 50%, according to report I heard.

Question: Was Bagwell concretely tied to steroids, and I missed it? That's certainly the way they made in sound on the news.

About time for Blyleven!!!

dbackjon wrote:About time for Blyleven!!!

Great for Bert, he truly deserved it more than anyone!!

Thank God. Like Phil Mickelson, we can now move on to a new "who's the best player not in the HOF".

AZGrizFan wrote:Thank God. Like Phil Mickelson, we can now move on to a new "who's the best player not in the HOF".

Do you really want me to answer that? You know who I'll say.

Alomar made it?? I thought the whole spitting incident would have silenced quite a few voters. I guess there are more voters from New York than I thought.

bandl wrote:Alomar made it?? I thought the whole spitting incident would have silenced quite a few voters. I guess there are more voters from New York than I thought.

12 All-Star games and 10 Gold Gloves are hard to ignore. And seeing now that Yankee fans have made it popular to spit on each other, that single incedent seems minimal.

bandl wrote:Alomar made it?? I thought the whole spitting incident would have silenced quite a few voters. I guess there are more voters from New York than I thought.

the guy was a first-ballot hall guy... the best second baseman of the 90's, and it's not even close...

he was pushed to year two by the BBWA and their merry band of moralizers for spitting on Hirschbeck (one of the worst umpires of all time)

I don't know when the writers decided they were the arbiters of morality and virtue... but I find it nauseating. especially their self-righteous garbage about PED's... these jackasses all covered the game in the 90's... they all looked the other way... they are complicit in what happened - as are the owners and executives who enjoyed the increased revenue and ratings. Now that it's all been revealed they're "shocked, SHOCKED" to discover all of this? bullshit.

Acknowledge PED usage, and just put the guys in the Hall... no different than the guys who used amphetamines in the 50's - 2008 (when they finally started testing for it) The guys doing it weren't doing anything banned by the game (except for the ones who've been caught since the ban, like Manny) - they shouldn't be punished ex-post-facto because some guilty-conscience writers need to assuage that guilt by wiping out an era of baseball history like Stalin did to Soviet-era paintings...

TwinTownBisonFan wrote:

bandl wrote:Alomar made it?? I thought the whole spitting incident would have silenced quite a few voters. I guess there are more voters from New York than I thought.

the guy was a first-ballot hall guy... the best second baseman of the 90's, and it's not even close...

he was pushed to year two by the BBWA and their merry band of moralizers for spitting on Hirschbeck (one of the worst umpires of all time)

I don't know when the writers decided they were the arbiters of morality and virtue... but I find it nauseating. especially their self-righteous garbage about PED's... these jackasses all covered the game in the 90's... they all looked the other way... they are complicit in what happened - as are the owners and executives who enjoyed the increased revenue and ratings. Now that it's all been revealed they're "shocked, SHOCKED" to discover all of this? bullshit.

Acknowledge PED usage, and just put the guys in the Hall... no different than the guys who used amphetamines in the 50's - 2008 (when they finally started testing for it) The guys doing it weren't doing anything banned by the game (except for the ones who've been caught since the ban, like Manny) - they shouldn't be punished ex-post-facto because some guilty-conscience writers need to assuage that guilt by wiping out an era of baseball history like Stalin did to Soviet-era paintings...

Jesus fuck, do you know how to take a joke?

BTW, I didn't read a single word you wrote

This is the second rant TTBF has gone on today. What the heck is going on up in the great white north?

andy7171 wrote:This is the second rant TTBF has gone on today. What the heck is going on up in the great white north?

took a Dennis Miller pill...

(the bachmann one is just based on personal experience in dealing with her... this one is just a pent up rant looking for an outlet)

TwinTownBisonFan wrote:

andy7171 wrote:This is the second rant TTBF has gone on today. What the heck is going on up in the great white north?

took a Dennis Miller pill...

(the bachmann one is just based on personal experience in dealing with her... this one is just a pent up rant looking for an outlet)

Have you tried masturbating?

dbackjon wrote:About time for Blyleven!!!

If he'd been a Yankee with his stats, he'd have been in 10 years ago.

Ivytalk wrote:

dbackjon wrote:About time for Blyleven!!!

If he'd been a Yankee with his stats, he'd have been in 10 years ago.

Unfortunately, that's true.

SuperHornet wrote:

Ivytalk wrote:
If he'd been a Yankee with his stats, he'd have been in 10 years ago.

Unfortunately, that's true.

No way is that true. Take a Twin (Kirby Puckett) and a Yankee (Don Mattingly) with nearly identical career stats. Puckett goes in first ballot; Mattingly can't get more than 20% of the vote -- and this is true, even though Mattingly was the undisputed best player in baseball for nearly five years.

But then again, the Hall of Fame is only the second best individual honor in baseball. The greatest honor is having your number retired by the New York Yankees.

JoltinJoe wrote:
No way is that true. Take a Twin (Kirby Puckett) and a Yankee (Don Mattingly) with nearly identical career stats. Puckett goes in first ballot; Mattingly can't get more than 20% of the vote -- and this is true, even though Mattingly was the undisputed best player in baseball for nearly five years.

True, though Puckett has two world series rings....

JoltinJoe wrote:But then again, the Hall of Fame is only the second best individual honor in baseball. The greatest honor is having your number retired by the New York Yankees.

JMU DJ wrote:

JoltinJoe wrote:But then again, the Hall of Fame is only the second best individual honor in baseball. The greatest honor is having your number retired by the New York Yankees.

JMU DJ wrote:

JoltinJoe wrote:
No way is that true. Take a Twin (Kirby Puckett) and a Yankee (Don Mattingly) with nearly identical career stats. Puckett goes in first ballot; Mattingly can't get more than 20% of the vote -- and this is true, even though Mattingly was the undisputed best player in baseball for nearly five years.

True, though Puckett has two world series rings....

Only underscores my greater point. "Rings" get some non-Yankees in, but if a Yankee fan say something like that, the reaction is, "Are you kidding? Shane Spencer has three rings, so he should get in?"

TwinTownBisonFan wrote:the guy was a first-ballot hall guy... the best second baseman of the 90's, and it's not even close...
.

I'd put Barry Larkin close

JoltinJoe wrote:

SuperHornet wrote:
Unfortunately, that's true.

No way is that true. Take a Twin (Kirby Puckett) and a Yankee (Don Mattingly) with nearly identical career stats. Puckett goes in first ballot; Mattingly can't get more than 20% of the vote -- and this is true, even though Mattingly was the undisputed best player in baseball for nearly five years.

But then again, the Hall of Fame is only the second best individual honor in baseball. The greatest honor is having your number retired by the New York Yankees.

Mattingly wasn't the undisputed best player during that period, 1 MVP, Dale Murphy, 2 time MVP, played Centerfield, Mike Schmidt was still knocking the ball out of the park, Rickey Henderson was tearing up the basepaths, Not to mention a young Cal Ripken Jr, George Brett. Wade Boggs was a far better player during those years, that's why he's in the Hall, same with Tony Gwynn.

JoltinJoe wrote:

JMU DJ wrote:
True, though Puckett has two world series rings....

Only underscores my greater point. "Rings" get some non-Yankees in, but if a Yankee fan say something like that, the reaction is, "Are you kidding? Shane Spencer has three rings, so he should get in?"

Rings don't get you in the hall of fame, Joe, and you know that. Any schmuck can ride the pine for three seasons on a world championship team. A great career gets you in the hall of fame, rings sweeten then deal.

Puckett and Mattingly had similar careers, as you mentioned. One took his team to two world titles, the other had a sweet stach. Maybe if Mattingly had of taken your golden boys to a title, let alone multiple playoff apperances (once at the very end of his career), he would have gotten in already. Should he be in, I think so. Hopefully he will.


Plus, what Gil said.

Gil Dobie wrote:

JoltinJoe wrote:
No way is that true. Take a Twin (Kirby Puckett) and a Yankee (Don Mattingly) with nearly identical career stats. Puckett goes in first ballot; Mattingly can't get more than 20% of the vote -- and this is true, even though Mattingly was the undisputed best player in baseball for nearly five years.

But then again, the Hall of Fame is only the second best individual honor in baseball. The greatest honor is having your number retired by the New York Yankees.

Mattingly wasn't the undisputed best player during that period, 1 MVP, Dale Murphy, 2 time MVP, played Centerfield, Mike Schmidt was still knocking the ball out of the park, Rickey Henderson was tearing up the basepaths, Not to mention a young Cal Ripken Jr, George Brett. Wade Boggs was a far better player during those years, that's why he's in the Hall, same with Tony Gwynn.

Gil, your memory betrays you. Before Mattingly's back surgery, he was a .335, 35 HR, 120 RBI guy every season (remarkable numbers in the pre-steroid era). Not one of the guys you mentioned ever achieved that sublime combination of power and average. Brett, Boggs could hit for that type of average, but not that type of power. Murphy and Schmidt could hit for that power, but not for that average. Henderson was a selfish player who was only ocassionally as good as his stats would indicate, and Ripken wouldn't even be in this discussion but for his "streak." (PS -- When Henderson played in New York, his nickname among fans was "Mr. Me").

If Mattingly had stayed healthy, he would have been a first-ballot lock. I still wonder how Puckett got a first-ballot pass and a guy who was a far better player in his prime, and a far better person too, can be left out with the almost identical career stats.

PS -- Your reference to Murphy has a two-time MVP reminds me that Mattingly was jobbed in the 1986 MVP voting, and should have won back-to-back MVP awards. Another instance of a Yankee being passed over simply because he was a Yankee.

JoltinJoe wrote:

Gil Dobie wrote:
Mattingly wasn't the undisputed best player during that period, 1 MVP, Dale Murphy, 2 time MVP, played Centerfield, Mike Schmidt was still knocking the ball out of the park, Rickey Henderson was tearing up the basepaths, Not to mention a young Cal Ripken Jr, George Brett. Wade Boggs was a far better player during those years, that's why he's in the Hall, same with Tony Gwynn.

Gil, your memory betrays you. Before Mattingly's back surgery, he was a .335, 35 HR, 120 RBI guy every season (remarkable numbers in the pre-steroid era). Not one of the guys you mentioned ever achieved that sublime combination of power and average. Brett, Boggs could hit for that type of average, but not that type of power. Murphy and Schmidt could hit for that power, but not for that average. Henderson was a selfish player who was only ocassionally as good as his stats would indicate, and Ripken wouldn't even be in this discussion but for his "streak." (PS -- When Henderson played in New York, his nickname among fans was "Mr. Me").

If Mattingly had stayed healthy, he would have been a first-ballot lock. I still wonder how Puckett got a first-ballot pass and a guy who was a far better player in his prime, and a far better person too, can be left out with the almost identical career stats.

PS -- Your reference to Murphy has a two-time MVP reminds me that Mattingly was jobbed in the 1986 MVP voting, and should have won back-to-back MVP awards. Another instance of a Yankee being passed over simply because he was a Yankee.

Mattingly had 35 HR once, over 120 RBI once and batted over .335 twice

JoltinJoe wrote: Gil, your memory betrays you. Before Mattingly's back surgery, he was a .335, 35 HR, 120 RBI guy every season (remarkable numbers in the pre-steroid era). Not one of the guys you mentioned ever achieved that sublime combination of power and average. Brett, Boggs could hit for that type of average, but not that type of power. Murphy and Schmidt could hit for that power, but not for that average. Henderson was a selfish player who was only ocassionally as good as his stats would indicate, and Ripken wouldn't even be in this discussion but for his "streak." (PS -- When Henderson played in New York, his nickname among fans was "Mr. Me").

If Mattingly had stayed healthy, he would have been a first-ballot lock. I still wonder how Puckett got a first-ballot pass and a guy who was a far better player in his prime, and a far better person too, can be left out with the almost identical career stats.

PS -- Your reference to Murphy has a two-time MVP reminds me that Mattingly was jobbed in the 1986 MVP voting, and should have won back-to-back MVP awards. Another instance of a Yankee being passed over simply because he was a Yankee.

Boggs had over 40 doubles 7 straight seasons, over 200 hits 7 straight seaons and scored over 100 runs seven straight seasons during Mattingly's prime. Had Boggs played in Yankees Stadium, he may have hit as many home runs to the short porch down the right field line as Mattingly.