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He just said on Sunday Night Baseball that he wont vote for Manny Ramirez for the HOF but has voted for McGuire and will vote for Bonds, Clemens in the future.



Either don't vote for cheaters, or vote for all cheaters that have the numbers to deserve it.

UNHWildCats wrote:He just said on Sunday Night Baseball that he wont vote for Manny Ramirez for the HOF but has voted for McGuire and will vote for Bonds, Clemens in the future.



Either don't vote for cheaters, or vote for all cheaters that have the numbers to deserve it.

wtf?

Olney is right to do this if he wants. McGwire never took a banned substance. Ramirez not only did, but apparently did so twice.

TwinTownBisonFan wrote:

UNHWildCats wrote:He just said on Sunday Night Baseball that he wont vote for Manny Ramirez for the HOF but has voted for McGuire and will vote for Bonds, Clemens in the future.



Either don't vote for cheaters, or vote for all cheaters that have the numbers to deserve it.

wtf?

Olney is right to do this if he wants. McGwire never took a banned substance. Ramirez not only did, but apparently did so twice.

What about Bonds and Clemens, why do they deserve to be voted in and Manny doesn't?

Also, in 1991 Commissioner Fay Vincent sent the clubs a memo reminding them that players were forbidden from taking any illegal substance. He specifically mention steroids in the memo and encouraged the clubs to take a get-tough policy on players thought to be using steroids.

in early 2010 McGwire admitted to using steroids throughout his career.

McGwire did take banned substances, there was just no testing in place nor an avenue to punish players for the usage.

TwinTownBisonFan wrote:

UNHWildCats wrote:He just said on Sunday Night Baseball that he wont vote for Manny Ramirez for the HOF but has voted for McGuire and will vote for Bonds, Clemens in the future.



Either don't vote for cheaters, or vote for all cheaters that have the numbers to deserve it.

wtf?

Olney is right to do this if he wants. McGwire never took a banned substance. Ramirez not only did, but apparently did so twice.

*cough* 3 times *cough*

And I'd do the same if I were Olney, except for Bonds. Ramirez knew he was cheating, and continued doing it.

Willie wrote:

TwinTownBisonFan wrote:
wtf?

Olney is right to do this if he wants. McGwire never took a banned substance. Ramirez not only did, but apparently did so twice.

*cough* 3 times *cough*

And I'd do the same if I were Olney, except for Bonds. Ramirez knew he was cheating, and continued doing it.

they all knew they were cheating...

Cheating is as old as baseball. If you want to eliminate all the cheaters from the Hall of Fame you'll end up with about 8 players.

I bet it is because manny went from not being able to speak english to being able to speak english and then back again not being able to speak english. He is a tool and shouldn't ever be able to get into the HOF. EVER.

grizzaholic wrote:I bet it is because manny went from not being able to speak english to being able to speak english and then back again not being able to speak english. He is a tool and shouldn't ever be able to get into the HOF. EVER.

fair enough. But Clemens, Bonds, Pettite, A Rod and everyone else who has either been caught or admitted cheating shouldnt be allowed either.

UNHWildCats wrote:

grizzaholic wrote:I bet it is because manny went from not being able to speak english to being able to speak english and then back again not being able to speak english. He is a tool and shouldn't ever be able to get into the HOF. EVER.

fair enough. But Clemens, Bonds, Pettite, A Rod and everyone else who has either been caught or admitted cheating shouldnt be allowed either.

Hey. WE are talking about manny. Not anyone else here. Jesus. Stay on point.

grizzaholic wrote:

UNHWildCats wrote: fair enough. But Clemens, Bonds, Pettite, A Rod and everyone else who has either been caught or admitted cheating shouldnt be allowed either.

Hey. WE are talking about manny. Not anyone else here. Jesus. Stay on point.

The topic of this thread is about Olney saying he will vote for other cheaters (He specifically named Bonds, McGwire and Clemens) but wont vote for Manny. So you stay on point asshole.

UNHWildCats wrote:

grizzaholic wrote:
Hey. WE are talking about manny. Not anyone else here. Jesus. Stay on point.

The topic of this thread is about Olney saying he will vote for other cheaters (He specifically named Bonds, McGwire and Clemens) but wont vote for Manny. So you stay on point asshole.

And again. I stated my point about what I thought he meant about manny. I wouldn't vote for manny if I could vote either. He is a douche...worse than you if anyone can believe that.

UNHWildCats wrote:

TwinTownBisonFan wrote:
wtf?

Olney is right to do this if he wants. McGwire never took a banned substance. Ramirez not only did, but apparently did so twice.

What about Bonds and Clemens, why do they deserve to be voted in and Manny doesn't?

Also, in 1991 Commissioner Fay Vincent sent the clubs a memo reminding them that players were forbidden from taking any illegal substance. He specifically mention steroids in the memo and encouraged the clubs to take a get-tough policy on players thought to be using steroids.

in early 2010 McGwire admitted to using steroids throughout his career.

McGwire did take banned substances, there was just no testing in place nor an avenue to punish players for the usage.

to be blunt - the league didn't ban shit until they started testing for it. they didn't care until it became a PR disaster - and whatever you think of that is neither here nor there - Ramirez was suspended once, then twice and now on the verge of a third bust - he quits... he has no place in the hall of fame - when the testing was documented, and the punishments known - he STILL felt the need to cheat... that's why Olney is right.

1. The Clemens accusation hasn't been proven, since the only testimony comes from an unbelievable hack.

2. Bonds stays out just for being an asinine jerk.

3. McGwire I'm not so sure about, but I probably let him in.

4. I don't know enough about the Ramirez thing to decide. But the whole "Manny being Manny" thing makes me want to put him in the Bonds category just because.

5. I haven't heard a word about Pettite or A-Rod in the context of PEDs. Not that I like either one of them.

6. For the first time in ages, Jelly has the best point in the thread. While they have nothing to do with 'roids, Cobb and Speaker were reportedly some of the dirtiest players in the game.

SuperHornet wrote:1. The Clemens accusation hasn't been proven, since the only testimony comes from an unbelievable hack.

2. Bonds stays out just for being an asinine jerk.

3. McGwire I'm not so sure about, but I probably let him in.

4. I don't know enough about the Ramirez thing to decide. But the whole "Manny being Manny" thing makes me want to put him in the Bonds category just because.

5. I haven't heard a word about Pettite or A-Rod in the context of PEDs. Not that I like either one of them.

6. For the first time in ages, Jelly has the best point in the thread. While they have nothing to do with 'roids, Cobb and Speaker were reportedly some of the dirtiest players in the game.

Ty Cobb once went in to the stands and beat a man to near death with his bat - he wasn't charged, the league tried to suspend him for 30 games (i think) and the Tigers refused to take the field until he was reinstated... he was after two games. by comparison - there is no comparison.

TwinTownBisonFan wrote:

SuperHornet wrote:1. The Clemens accusation hasn't been proven, since the only testimony comes from an unbelievable hack.

2. Bonds stays out just for being an asinine jerk.

3. McGwire I'm not so sure about, but I probably let him in.

4. I don't know enough about the Ramirez thing to decide. But the whole "Manny being Manny" thing makes me want to put him in the Bonds category just because.

5. I haven't heard a word about Pettite or A-Rod in the context of PEDs. Not that I like either one of them.

6. For the first time in ages, Jelly has the best point in the thread. While they have nothing to do with 'roids, Cobb and Speaker were reportedly some of the dirtiest players in the game.

Ty Cobb once went in to the stands and beat a man to near death with his bat - he wasn't charged, the league tried to suspend him for 30 games (i think) and the Tigers refused to take the field until he was reinstated... he was after two games. by comparison - there is no comparison.

That's exactly what I was talking about, TTBF. Speaker was known for sliding into base with spikes up, trying to cut people. Times have changed. People still play dirty, but they've changed how they do it.

SuperHornet wrote:

TwinTownBisonFan wrote:
Ty Cobb once went in to the stands and beat a man to near death with his bat - he wasn't charged, the league tried to suspend him for 30 games (i think) and the Tigers refused to take the field until he was reinstated... he was after two games. by comparison - there is no comparison.

That's exactly what I was talking about, TTBF. Speaker was known for sliding into base with spikes up, trying to cut people. Times have changed. People still play dirty, but they've changed how they do it.

meh - spikes high is part of the game... what cobb did was attempted murder... point being - you're unlikely to find a bigger piece of shit in the hall... you might also never find a better baseball player... cobb belongs. and so does bonds. barry was a hall of famer before steroids, before the perjury conviction sure to come...

Willie Mays admitted playing ball on amphetamines in his autobiography. Some of the most beloved players like Mickey Mantle, Sandy Koufax, and Hank Aaron are believed to have used PED's. One of the best players of all time... and probably the best manager of all time, John McGraw made his living off of cheating any way he could get away with it.

I think the greatest ball players should all be in the Hall of Fame. I think Pete Rose, "Shoeless" Joe Jackson, Barry Bonds, Manny Ramirez, etc. etc. should all be in the Hall.

Skjellyfetti wrote:Willie Mays admitted playing ball on amphetamines in his autobiography. Some of the most beloved players like Mickey Mantle, Sandy Koufax, and Hank Aaron are believed to have used PED's. One of the best players of all time... and probably the best manager of all time, John McGraw made his living off of cheating any way he could get away with it.

I think the greatest ball players should all be in the Hall of Fame. I think Pete Rose, "Shoeless" Joe Jackson, Barry Bonds, Manny Ramirez, etc. etc. should all be in the Hall.

generally i agree - the game is the game... guys looking for an edge is nothing new - it should be acknowledged as such in the hall - and have that be that.

the only one i disagree on is Rose. he should be enshrined after he is dead. A lifetime ban should be just that. a lifetime. for that reason, Joe Jackson should be in the hall.

SuperHornet wrote:1. The Clemens accusation hasn't been proven, since the only testimony comes from an unbelievable hack.

2. Bonds stays out just for being an asinine jerk.

3. McGwire I'm not so sure about, but I probably let him in.

4. I don't know enough about the Ramirez thing to decide. But the whole "Manny being Manny" thing makes me want to put him in the Bonds category just because.

5. I haven't heard a word about Pettite or A-Rod in the context of PEDs. Not that I like either one of them.

6. For the first time in ages, Jelly has the best point in the thread. While they have nothing to do with 'roids, Cobb and Speaker were reportedly some of the dirtiest players in the game.

They have both admitted to use.


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TwinTownBisonFan wrote:

Skjellyfetti wrote:Willie Mays admitted playing ball on amphetamines in his autobiography. Some of the most beloved players like Mickey Mantle, Sandy Koufax, and Hank Aaron are believed to have used PED's. One of the best players of all time... and probably the best manager of all time, John McGraw made his living off of cheating any way he could get away with it.

I think the greatest ball players should all be in the Hall of Fame. I think Pete Rose, "Shoeless" Joe Jackson, Barry Bonds, Manny Ramirez, etc. etc. should all be in the Hall.

generally i agree - the game is the game... guys looking for an edge is nothing new - it should be acknowledged as such in the hall - and have that be that.

the only one i disagree on is Rose. he should be enshrined after he is dead. A lifetime ban should be just that. a lifetime. for that reason, Joe Jackson should be in the hall.

Manny is the worst - by far - of all the alleged cheaters. Bonds, Clemens, McGwire all cheated in the 90's, when many other players were cheating as well and baseball was looking the other way. Manny cheated at least twice in the 2000's, well after baseball began to focus on cheating.

Add to that the way Manny forced his way out of Boston
And then add to that the way he quit baseball rather than face the 100 game suspension.

Manny will be lucky to get the 5% vote required to stay on the ballot after one year.

Skjellyfetti wrote:Willie Mays admitted playing ball on amphetamines in his autobiography. Some of the most beloved players like Mickey Mantle, Sandy Koufax, and Hank Aaron are believed to have used PED's. One of the best players of all time... and probably the best manager of all time, John McGraw made his living off of cheating any way he could get away with it.

I think the greatest ball players should all be in the Hall of Fame. I think Pete Rose, "Shoeless" Joe Jackson, Barry Bonds, Manny Ramirez, etc. etc. should all be in the Hall.

I'm gonna have to check that book. The last time I read anything on Mays, he was a teetotaller, only taking a single sip of champagne after a couple of titles, and never even downing a brewski.

Of course, if I remember right, amphetamines were legal back then. Not that makes a diff on what it does to people.

Skjellyfetti wrote:Some of the most beloved players like Mickey Mantle, Sandy Koufax, and Hank Aaron are believed to have used PED's.

You have no proof for this statement. Geez, even on the sports board ...

JoltinJoe wrote:

Skjellyfetti wrote:Some of the most beloved players like Mickey Mantle, Sandy Koufax, and Hank Aaron are believed to have used PED's.

You have no proof for this statement. Geez, even on the sports board ...

setting aside jelly's reputation...

Jim Bouton's book Ball Four did a pretty good job of exposing the prevalence of "greenies" in MLB clubhouses in the 50's and 60's. Aaron has been implicated before in this claim, I hadn't heard about Mantle or Koufax - but a lot of the other stars of the era were known to be using...

TwinTownBisonFan wrote:

JoltinJoe wrote:
You have no proof for this statement. Geez, even on the sports board ...

setting aside jelly's reputation...

Jim Bouton's book Ball Four did a pretty good job of exposing the prevalence of "greenies" in MLB clubhouses in the 50's and 60's. Aaron has been implicated before in this claim, I hadn't heard about Mantle or Koufax - but a lot of the other stars of the era were known to be using...

Jim Bouton said a lot of things about Mantle in that book, most complimentary, some negative. Bouton has said, in retrospect, that everyone has focused on the negative things, which he regrets, because he was trying to give a complete and balanced perspective on Mantle. Bouton also said that, given all the attacks to which he subjected, that the one guy who never criticized him for what he did was Mantle.

That being said, Bouton has repeatedly claimed that he has no knowledge that Mantle ever used amphetamines or "greenies," and he thinks he would have reason to know that, since he shared a locker room with Mantle for a number of years during an era when no one was concealing their use. He has also said that, in his opinion, Mantle was the greatest ballplayer of his era.