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...in the wake of his disastrous hit on Giants catcher Buster Posey. He's repeatedly apologized, but does maintain that the play was legal (he's correct).

Enter Giants GM Brian Sabean. He irresponsibly went off on the radio, sending a "message" to Cousins that the Giants would "get" him even if MLB didn't. The Giants have since backed off of that, but it's still irresponsible, particularly given that Cousins is from the Bay Area and he's worried about the safety of his family and friends.

Apparently, this kid is a throwback to the way Pete Rose and a bunch of others played ball. Does one have to be a freaking pansy to play nowadays?

(And I'm not a Marlins fan.)



http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=a ... ns-cousins

So he is all butt hurt that his catcher got hurt. Risks of the game. He wants to say it was a dirty hit and he purposefully went for the player and not to the plate...and yet his players (and every other teams) when they run to second base to break up a double play don't even try to slide to the bag and slide 2-5 feet away from the bag to screw up the throw to first...but that is ok because HIS player didn't get hurt.


Pretty dumb of that GM.

grizzaholic wrote:So he is all butt hurt that his catcher got hurt. Risks of the game. He wants to say it was a dirty hit and he purposefully went for the player and not to the plate...and yet his players (and every other teams) when they run to second base to break up a double play don't even try to slide to the bag and slide 2-5 feet away from the bag to screw up the throw to first...but that is ok because HIS player didn't get hurt.


Pretty dumb of that GM.

If there was anything illegal about the play, it was Posey blocking the plate without the ball.

It sucks that he got hurt but the Giants are being idiots about this. This could have been avoided if the Giants had instructed Posey not to block the plate in a game this early in the season. If this were a must win game in September I can understand it, but it was May. Better to give up one run in May than risk a catastrophic season ending injury.

BlueHen86 wrote:If there was anything illegal about the play, it was Posey blocking the plate without the ball.

It sucks that he got hurt but the Giants are being idiots about this. This could have been avoided if the Giants had instructed Posey not to block the plate in a game this early in the season. If this were a must win game in September I can understand it, but it was May. Better to give up one run in May than risk a catastrophic season ending injury.

Not every Giant is being dumb about this. Posey himself just issued a statement bashing those who are breathing out the death threats.

The thing about that rule is that you have to break it to be in position to take advantage of it. By that, I mean that you have to block the plate without the ball while you're waiting for the throw. The thing is that if it becomes clear that there is NO throw in the offing, you have to stand aside. The way I usually handled that was if I thought there was going to be a possibility of a play, I would block the plate before the runner even touched third so there would be plenty of time. The catcher's unique position (he's the only guy on the field other than the dish ump who can see everyone else) enables him to know this if he has half a brain and is paying attention. Sometimes there'll be an accident such as what happened here. But if the catcher knows what he's doing, things like this are a rarity. You get a great collision, and the runner is either out (i.e. the catcher makes the tag and hold onto the ball) or safe (the catcher fumbles). He just has to be smart enough to know when to concede the run. Again, there WILL be the occasional bad episode, but knowing when to concede the run usually keeps these things to a once-in-a-decade-or-more basis.

SuperHornet wrote:The catcher's unique position (he's the only guy on the field other than the dish ump who can see everyone else) enables him to know this if he has half a brain and is paying attention.

Huh?

If the catcher can "see everyone else", so can all the outfielders....

SuperHornet wrote:

BlueHen86 wrote:If there was anything illegal about the play, it was Posey blocking the plate without the ball.

It sucks that he got hurt but the Giants are being idiots about this. This could have been avoided if the Giants had instructed Posey not to block the plate in a game this early in the season. If this were a must win game in September I can understand it, but it was May. Better to give up one run in May than risk a catastrophic season ending injury.

Not every Giant is being dumb about this. Posey himself just issued a statement bashing those who are breathing out the death threats.

The thing about that rule is that you have to break it to be in position to take advantage of it. By that, I mean that you have to block the plate without the ball while you're waiting for the throw. The thing is that if it becomes clear that there is NO throw in the offing, you have to stand aside. The way I usually handled that was if I thought there was going to be a possibility of a play, I would block the plate before the runner even touched third so there would be plenty of time. The catcher's unique position (he's the only guy on the field other than the dish ump who can see everyone else) enables him to know this if he has half a brain and is paying attention. Sometimes there'll be an accident such as what happened here. But if the catcher knows what he's doing, things like this are a rarity. You get a great collision, and the runner is either out (i.e. the catcher makes the tag and hold onto the ball) or safe (the catcher fumbles). He just has to be smart enough to know when to concede the run. Again, there WILL be the occasional bad episode, but knowing when to concede the run usually keeps these things to a once-in-a-decade-or-more basis.

Maybe not all the Giants are being dumb, just the ones who are talking. The GM came across like a big baby with his statements this week, and if I heard correctly, Posey refused to take a phone call from Cousins. So far, I think the Giants have horribly mishandled this.

Posey isn't the first catcher to be hurt in a home plate collision ( I still remember the Rose-Fosse collision, and that was in an all-star game). If the Giants are that worried about Posey's health they should put him at another position or tell him not to block the plate. Trashing Cousin's, who did not break any rules, is just wrong.

AZGrizFan wrote:

SuperHornet wrote:The catcher's unique position (he's the only guy on the field other than the dish ump who can see everyone else) enables him to know this if he has half a brain and is paying attention.

Huh?

If the catcher can "see everyone else", so can all the outfielders....

No only that, sometimes I'm not sure the plate umpire can see anytihng.

Plate was blocked, but barely. Cousins could have easily slide around Posey and been safe.

The ball was there in plenty of time for Posey to be in front of the plate like he was. The reason people think he didn't have the ball yet is because the ball didn't stick in his glove and it was below him.

Tough call to plow a dude in May (just like blocking the plate...especially to use that kind of force) or to slide around him.

FWIW here are some screen caps from youtube at the time of the hit

The first one is right as the ball is hitting Posey's glove. As you can see he is inside the foul lines, and Cousins is already loading up for running him the fuck over....not just loading for impact....even though he has plenty of room to slide around him.



This one you can see Posey is still on the fair side of the lines, but still more in front of the plate. However, there is still room for Cousins to slide around. Oh, and the ball is under Posey and clearly visibile. To say he shouldn't be blocking the plate without the ball is moronic in this case. Before you pull the "He shouldn't block the plate without the ball in the glove" crap - as someone who was a catcher in baseball for 13 years and was in plenty of situations like this (taking the hit and having the other player slide) it is pretty damn tough to focus on getting a good block, prepping for the hit, and making sure the ball is in your glove all within a split second - and most times it's tough to tell if the ball is in your glove.

Oh, and there is the fact that Cousins looks prepped to run through a rebar enforced cement wall. He isn't aiming at the plate to be safe, he is aimed at some fucked up angle in front of the plate, straight at Posey.



I'm not going to go as far as the Giant GM, however, the hit was completely unneeded.


If you think blocking the plate in May isn't needed, neither is loading up and running through the catcher like that.

clenz wrote:FWIW here are some screen caps from youtube at the time of the hit

The first one is right as the ball is hitting Posey's glove. As you can see he is inside the foul lines, and Cousins is already loading up for running him the fuck over....not just loading for impact....even though he has plenty of room to slide around him.



This one you can see Posey is still on the fair side of the lines, but still more in front of the plate. However, there is still room for Cousins to slide around. Oh, and the ball is under Posey and clearly visibile. To say he shouldn't be blocking the plate without the ball is moronic in this case. Before you pull the "He shouldn't block the plate without the ball in the glove" crap - as someone who was a catcher in baseball for 13 years and was in plenty of situations like this (taking the hit and having the other player slide) it is pretty damn tough to focus on getting a good block, prepping for the hit, and making sure the ball is in your glove all within a split second - and most times it's tough to tell if the ball is in your glove.

Oh, and there is the fact that Cousins looks prepped to run through a rebar enforced cement wall. He isn't aiming at the plate to be safe, he is aimed at some fucked up angle in front of the plate, straight at Posey.



I'm not going to go as far as the Giant GM, however, the hit was completely unneeded.


If you think blocking the plate in May isn't needed, neither is loading up and running through the catcher like that.

So...is running away from Second Base and sliding into __________ to break up a double play ok? Outside the base line....not needed....

grizzaholic wrote: So...is running away from Second Base and sliding into __________ to break up a double play ok? Outside the base line....not needed....

In my opinion, not this early in the season. Now if we are talking down stretch/playoffs running over the catcher/blocking the plate and breaking up a double play by sliding away from the bag is acceptable.

Now, the way the players slide to break the double play up some times (4 feet either way of the bag with spikes at waist level and hands in the air) is uncalled for and dumb as hell.

clenz wrote:

grizzaholic wrote: So...is running away from Second Base and sliding into __________ to break up a double play ok? Outside the base line....not needed....

In my opinion, not this early in the season. Now if we are talking down stretch/playoffs running over the catcher/blocking the plate and breaking up a double play by sliding away from the bag is acceptable.

Now, the way the players slide to break the double play up some times (4 feet either way of the bag with spikes at waist level and hands in the air) is uncalled for and dumb as hell.

OH...so it is acceptable late in the season but not now. Gotcha. JESUS YOU DUMB FUCKING ASSHOLE.

And having the SF GM saying this type of shit after what happened earlier this year in LA. He must be related to Clenz.

clenz wrote:FWIW here are some screen caps from youtube at the time of the hit

The first one is right as the ball is hitting Posey's glove. As you can see he is inside the foul lines, and Cousins is already loading up for running him the fuck over....not just loading for impact....even though he has plenty of room to slide around him.



This one you can see Posey is still on the fair side of the lines, but still more in front of the plate. However, there is still room for Cousins to slide around. Oh, and the ball is under Posey and clearly visibile. To say he shouldn't be blocking the plate without the ball is moronic in this case. Before you pull the "He shouldn't block the plate without the ball in the glove" crap - as someone who was a catcher in baseball for 13 years and was in plenty of situations like this (taking the hit and having the other player slide) it is pretty damn tough to focus on getting a good block, prepping for the hit, and making sure the ball is in your glove all within a split second - and most times it's tough to tell if the ball is in your glove.

Oh, and there is the fact that Cousins looks prepped to run through a rebar enforced cement wall. He isn't aiming at the plate to be safe, he is aimed at some fucked up angle in front of the plate, straight at Posey.



I'm not going to go as far as the Giant GM, however, the hit was completely unneeded.


If you think blocking the plate in May isn't needed, neither is loading up and running through the catcher like that.

Two things:

1. Cousins was aiming to hit Posey because he knew jarring the ball loose was the only chance of being safe, he wasn't going to be able to slide around a tag.

2. Posey didn't get hurt because Cousins hit him, he got hurt because he did a terrible job of blocking the plate fundamentally. If he'd blocked the plate like he'd been taught, he wouldn't have caught his leg underneath him when Cousins hit him and would probably have played the next day.

grizzaholic wrote:And having the SF GM saying this type of shit after what happened earlier this year in LA. He must be related to Clenz.

Johnny Bench weighs in....

Johnny Bench wrote:When I heard about the injury, I was anxious to see how this happened. Buster put himself in such a bad position. First of all, my catchers don’t sit in front of home plate. They stand away from home plate and work back to the plate. But we (catchers) are just fair game. You’ve got a guy running around third base at 210 to 220 pounds with 3 percent body fat and with sprinter’s speed. I teach my kids to stay away from the plate when you don’t have the ball so the runner actually sees home plate and his thought is, slide. But Buster is laying in front of home plate, and it’s like having a disabled car in the middle of a four-lane highway. You’re just going to get smacked. Show them the plate. You can always catch the ball and step, or step and catch the ball, as long as you’ve got the runner on the ground. And if you have the runner on the ground, there’s less chance of any severe collision.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/ ... ome-plate/

So the GM says that the Giants will get even with him.
I would take that as saying that they might instruct their pitchers to throw towards the inside of the plate next time Cousins is up. If he were an infield player, perhaps some baserunners could slide hard into him or something (but as it appears that he's an outfielder, that wouldn't work).

If catchers are "fair game", I don't see why other players aren't.
(except maybe pitchers. those guys are pansies)

JayJ79 wrote:So the GM says that the Giants will get even with him.
I would take that as saying that they might instruct their pitchers to throw towards the inside of the plate next time Cousins is up. If he were an infield player, perhaps some baserunners could slide hard into him or something (but as it appears that he's an outfielder, that wouldn't work).

If catchers are "fair game", I don't see why other players aren't.
(except maybe pitchers. those guys are pansies)

I defy anyone to call people like Bruce Sutter and George Ruth "pansies."

SuperHornet wrote:

JayJ79 wrote:So the GM says that the Giants will get even with him.
I would take that as saying that they might instruct their pitchers to throw towards the inside of the plate next time Cousins is up. If he were an infield player, perhaps some baserunners could slide hard into him or something (but as it appears that he's an outfielder, that wouldn't work).

If catchers are "fair game", I don't see why other players aren't.
(except maybe pitchers. those guys are pansies)

I defy anyone to call people like Bruce Sutter and George Ruth "pansies."

alright then. pitchers are as much "fair game" as catchers

Pitchers can be tough, but have thin skins:

Jim Caple, ESPN.com wrote:1917: Babe Ruth slugs umpire. Angry about a couple calls to the first batter, he walked off the mound and punched umpire Brick Owens. If a player did that today, the FCC would have to issue 1,000 more licenses to satisfy the demand from outraged radio talk-show hosts.

http://a.espncdn.com/mlb/columns/caple_jim/1408561.html

FWIW, reliever Ernie Shore came on after Ruth was ejected, watched the walked batter get caught stealing, and then got the next 26 batters, completing what was the strangest perfect game in history until that idiot Fay Vincent "cleansed" the record book. Ruth should have known he was asking to be ejected when he threatened to "knock [Owens'] block off" after the count reached 3-0.