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Veralnder vs Sabathia today as the series goes back to Detroit for 2 games, tied at 1 game a piece. A couple home wins and the Tigers move on.

Gil Dobie wrote:Veralnder vs Sabathia today as the series goes back to Detroit for 2 games, tied at 1 game a piece. A couple home wins and the Tigers move on.

Let's hope it happens. I'd rather it not go back to Yankee Stadium. Scherzer stepped up big yesterday. Valverde did his best Todd Jones impression in the 9th.

Verlander takes CC, Tigers up 2 games to 1.

Hey you Twins fans, thanks for trading Delmon Young -

Gil Dobie wrote:Verlander takes CC, Tigers up 2 games to 1.

Hey you Twins fans, thanks for trading Delmon Young -

Dombrowski deserves a huge amount of credit for the mid-season moves. Young, Betemit and Fister have been crucial to the Tigers success this year.

Heard CC's postseason #'s this morning - had no idea they were that bad. Wonder if it's the workload? the pitching on short rest? the weight problem? all of the above?

Yanks are done I think.

We're relying on Burnett.....yup its over.

danefan wrote:Yanks are done I think.

We're relying on Burnett.....yup its over.

The Yankees can still score a bunch of runs, and the Tigers have Rick Porcello starting tonight. No telling what might happen. Porcello has a load of talent, but he's as inconsistent as a 22 year old. (Which of course he is.) He might shut the Yankees down or get blown out early.

I think the Tigers will need to score a bunch tonight.

bluehenbillk wrote:Heard CC's postseason #'s this morning - had no idea they were that bad. Wonder if it's the workload? the pitching on short rest? the weight problem? all of the above?

Might be any combination of those factors. You also have to figure that last night, and versus Texas last year, he faced pretty potent offensive lineups.

Gil Dobie wrote:Verlander takes CC, Tigers up 2 games to 1.

Hey you Twins fans, thanks for trading Delmon Young -

freaking called this...

he basically produced for Detroit in a few months what he did for the Twins all year...

put him in a good lineup and playing relevant games and he'll perform.

I warn you though - as a fan... there will come a time - soon - when Delmon will cost you multiple runs with his defense, esp. in Comerica... he'll take a bad route to a ball and two runs will score...

bluehenbillk wrote:Heard CC's postseason #'s this morning - had no idea they were that bad. Wonder if it's the workload? the pitching on short rest? the weight problem? all of the above?

Sabathia's post-season numbers with the Yankees are excellent. He was 5-1 with a 3.15 ERA before last night.

He just had to work to hard pitching to that strike zone last night. He was painting corners of the strike zone and not getting the calls. That inflated his pitch count and resulted in a number of walks.

JoltinJoe wrote:

bluehenbillk wrote:Heard CC's postseason #'s this morning - had no idea they were that bad. Wonder if it's the workload? the pitching on short rest? the weight problem? all of the above?

Sabathia's post-season numbers with the Yankees are excellent. He was 5-1 with a 3.15 ERA before last night.

He just had to work to hard pitching to that strike zone last night. He was painting corners of the strike zone and not getting the calls. That inflated his pitch count and resulted in a number of walks.

They should have pitched AJ last night, and saved CC for tonight...

JoltinJoe wrote:

bluehenbillk wrote:Heard CC's postseason #'s this morning - had no idea they were that bad. Wonder if it's the workload? the pitching on short rest? the weight problem? all of the above?

Sabathia's post-season numbers with the Yankees are excellent. He was 5-1 with a 3.15 ERA before last night.

He just had to work to hard pitching to that strike zone last night. He was painting corners of the strike zone and not getting the calls. That inflated his pitch count and resulted in a number of walks.

Did Verlander get a different strike zone?

Joe, we had this discussion before regarding CC and his late season performance drop off....and you lose again!

AZGrizFan wrote:

JoltinJoe wrote:
Sabathia's post-season numbers with the Yankees are excellent. He was 5-1 with a 3.15 ERA before last night.

He just had to work to hard pitching to that strike zone last night. He was painting corners of the strike zone and not getting the calls. That inflated his pitch count and resulted in a number of walks.

Did Verlander get a different strike zone?

Joe, we had this discussion before regarding CC and his late season performance drop off....and you lose again!

Did Verlander get a different strike zone? Yes, he got a much larger strike zone, according to objective sources. Sabathia wasn't given a strike on the left side of the plate ALL night, even when he was within the strike zone, while in the very same area, Verlander was given ten strikes that were outside the box! Take a look at the number of pitches thrown by Sabathia IN the box were called balls, and then compare them to the number of pitches outside the box thrown by Verlander which were called strikes.

JoltinJoe wrote:

bluehenbillk wrote:Heard CC's postseason #'s this morning - had no idea they were that bad. Wonder if it's the workload? the pitching on short rest? the weight problem? all of the above?

Sabathia's post-season numbers with the Yankees are excellent. He was 5-1 with a 3.15 ERA before last night.

He just had to work to hard pitching to that strike zone last night. He was painting corners of the strike zone and not getting the calls. That inflated his pitch count and resulted in a number of walks.

Yes, Sabbathia's numbers, when you only look at his good games in the post season, are fabulous!!!! Good thing He's pitched 11 games in the postseason now and he's sporting a 4.78 ERA in those starts. Just throwing out the 5 bad starts doesn't really work.

JoltinJoe wrote:Did Verlander get a different strike zone? Yes, he got a much larger strike zone, according to objective sources. Sabathia wasn't given a strike on the left side of the plate ALL night, even when he was within the strike zone, while in the very same area, Verlander was given ten strikes that were outside the box! Take a look at the number of pitches thrown by Sabathia IN the box were called balls, and then compare them to the number of pitches outside the box thrown by Verlander which were called strikes.

Two comments:

1) There's no WAY that's every pitch that was thrown...I'm sure there were more strikes thrown than that.
2) MLB umpires have proven time and time again that if you're around the plate, you're going to get the marginal calls (and even an extended strike zone). What stands out the MOST from that graphic is that CC was all over the place. WAY wide. WAY low...when you're wild like that, you aren't going to get the close calls. EVER.

AZGrizFan wrote:

JoltinJoe wrote:Did Verlander get a different strike zone? Yes, he got a much larger strike zone, according to objective sources. Sabathia wasn't given a strike on the left side of the plate ALL night, even when he was within the strike zone, while in the very same area, Verlander was given ten strikes that were outside the box! Take a look at the number of pitches thrown by Sabathia IN the box were called balls, and then compare them to the number of pitches outside the box thrown by Verlander which were called strikes.

Two comments:

1) There's no WAY that's every pitch that was thrown...I'm sure there were more strikes thrown than that.
2) MLB umpires have proven time and time again that if you're around the plate, you're going to get the marginal calls (and even an extended strike zone). What stands out the MOST from that graphic is that CC was all over the place. WAY wide. WAY low...when you're wild like that, you aren't going to get the close calls. EVER.

I suspect if you think this shows that CC was all over the place more than Verlander, I think you're misreading the chart.

JoltinJoe wrote:I suspect if you think this shows that CC was all over the place more than Verlander, I think you're misreading the chart.

Really? I look around the outer fringes of that chart and all I see are green triangles. Those are CC's balls, no?

Leave it to a douchebag Yankee fan to come up with such a ridiculous excuse.

AZGrizFan wrote:

JoltinJoe wrote:I suspect if you think this shows that CC was all over the place more than Verlander, I think you're misreading the chart.

Really? I look around the outer fringes of that chart and all I see are green triangles. Those are CC's balls, no?

You don't see any green boxes all over the place too?

(BTW, this graph only shows umpire calls. Batted balls in play or foul, or swing/misses, not shown).

The key thing is to look at how many green triangles (Sabathia balls) are in the box. In fact, as I observed, he was painting the corner with precision, and not getting the call. Then compare than to the number of red boxes (Verlander strikes) OUTSIDE the box.

Now how many red triangles are outside the box?

There are at least 10 Detroit pitches outside the box called strikes. I look at these charts often and I can tell you that's a huge disparity. The Yankees have three pitches outside the box called strike. That's pretty normal. Usually about three a game for both sides is what you usually see.

CrybabyJoe

Grizalltheway wrote:CrybabyJoe

Hey girlie boy, I was asked a question, gave an answer, and then provided objective data to support my answer.

JoltinJoe wrote:You don't see any green boxes all over the place too?

(BTW, this graph only shows umpire calls. Batted balls in play or foul, or swing/misses, not shown).

The key thing is to look at how many green triangles (Sabathia balls) are in the box. In fact, as I observed, he was painting the corner with precision, and not getting the call. Then compare than to the number of red boxes (Verlander strikes) OUTSIDE the box.

Now how many red triangles are outside the box?

I see a lot of pitches up and in (by both pitchers) that were called balls, and I see 3 boxes and 7 triangles on/near the edge that were called balls. I mean, how fucking hard is it to adjust a little and take what the umpire is giving you? Looks like Verlander did a better job of that, while CC insisted on continuing to try and get a call he wasn't getting all night.

JoltinJoe wrote:

Grizalltheway wrote:CrybabyJoe

Hey girlie boy, I was asked a question, gave an answer, and then provided objective data to support my answer.

Why is it so hard for Yankee fans to just admit when they're beat fair and square, and then move on?

AZGrizFan wrote:

JoltinJoe wrote:You don't see any green boxes all over the place too?

(BTW, this graph only shows umpire calls. Batted balls in play or foul, or swing/misses, not shown).

The key thing is to look at how many green triangles (Sabathia balls) are in the box. In fact, as I observed, he was painting the corner with precision, and not getting the call. Then compare than to the number of red boxes (Verlander strikes) OUTSIDE the box.

Now how many red triangles are outside the box?

I see a lot of pitches up and in (by both pitchers) that were called balls, and I see 3 boxes and 7 triangles on/near the edge that were called balls. I mean, how **** hard is it to adjust a little and take what the umpire is giving you? Looks like Verlander did a better job of that, while CC insisted on continuing to try and get a call he wasn't getting all night.

You're seeing that you want to see. There are at least 10 Detroit pitches called strikes outside the box. That's a huge error rate, given that an ump calls maybe 75-80 pitches for a side every night (the balance are swung at).

Grizalltheway wrote:

JoltinJoe wrote:
Hey girlie boy, I was asked a question, gave an answer, and then provided objective data to support my answer.

Why is it so hard for Yankee fans to just admit when they're beat fair and square, and then move on?

Judging by Joe's reaction to the 2001 WS, 10 years is not long enough...