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Faced with the opportunity of a lifetime to pick up a HOF-caliber QB who could also mentor a youngster, the Cowboys instead blinked. They picked up a journeyman with little cred in Kyle Orton.

SuperHornet wrote:Faced with the opportunity of a lifetime to pick up a HOF-caliber QB who could also mentor a youngster, the Cowboys instead blinked. They picked up a journeyman with little cred in Kyle Orton.

They need a new GM.......the one they got really, really sucks!

Agreed.

Same could be said for the new GM in Oakland, who fired a coach as soon as he stepped in the door after the first even CLOSE to winning season in ten years simply because he wanted to throw his weight around. That's NOT a good way to run a team.

SuperHornet wrote:Agreed.

Same could be said for the new GM in Oakland, who fired a coach as soon as he stepped in the door after the first even CLOSE to winning season in ten years simply because he wanted to throw his weight around. That's NOT a good way to run a team.

I heard Al Davis' son cleaned house because he didn't want anyone in the organization knowing and/or remembering how Al treated him in front of everyone.

SuperHornet wrote:Faced with the opportunity of a lifetime to pick up a HOF-caliber QB who could also mentor a youngster, the Cowboys instead blinked. They picked up a journeyman with little cred in Kyle Orton.

Huh? Mentor a youngster? Who are you talking about?

They were signing a backup, & Orton is one of the best you could get for that role.

Do you actually believe that Orton will be happy as a backup? He's not Zeke Bratkowski, Earl Morrall, or Don Strock.

I was speaking, of course, of His Peytonness. If a young guy can't learn from a guy with his experience, then he has no business in the league.

SuperHornet wrote:Do you actually believe that Orton will be happy as a backup? He's not Zeke Bratkowski, Earl Morrall, or Don Strock.

I was speaking, of course, of His Peytonness. If a young guy can't learn from a guy with his experience, then he has no business in the league.

I knew you were referring to Peyton, I was just wondering who the "youngster" was. Romo is 31.

The idea was more like dump Romo and bring in a youngster.

SuperHornet wrote:The idea was more like dump Romo and bring in a youngster.

Why would anyone do that? Romo is the second-highest-rated passer in NFL history.

Like I said, Venus, that rating system is bogus. It has no basis in reality. Romo has no rings and hasn't even BEEN to a Super Bowl. He has a history of choking away big games. He's NOT a major league quarterback. Gaudy numbers mean NOTHING without results, and he hasn't brought ANY.

SuperHornet wrote:Like I said, Venus, that rating system is bogus. It has no basis in reality. Romo has no rings and hasn't even BEEN to a Super Bowl. He has a history of choking away big games. He's NOT a major league quarterback. Gaudy numbers mean NOTHING without results, and he hasn't brought ANY.

Yeah, because the quality of the team around him doesn't matter. Quarterbacks decide everything themselves…

By saying the QB Rating system is bogus, you're saying that completing passes, throwing touchdowns, & not throwing interceptions is bogus. If you want to argue that, that's your prerogative, but it's a losing battle.


Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl—does anyone think he's awesome? So did Jeff "Pedophile 'Stache" Hostetler. And there are plenty of unheralded QBs that went to Super Bowls: Neil O'Donnell, Tony Eason, Rex Grossman, Vince Ferragamo, Jake Delhomme, David Woodley, Kerry Collins, Joe Kapp, etc. And Dan Marino never won one… and neither did Steve McNair… and Randall Cunningham… and Donovan McNabb… and Dan Fouts… and Warren Moon…

You overstepped your argument by mentioning Warren Moon. He won multiple consecutive Grey Cups.

That said, you otherwise have a pretty good argument with the no-names (and the greats who never quite got there).

The QB rating is about as convoluted as that stupid Massey Rating. It's way too complicated. It also places way too much emphasis on throwing all the time. No, I don't want a guy like Dilfer, who could barely manage a game and couldn't win to save his life. But as far as I'm concerned, Romo is only one step to the good side of that. He throws too many picks and he fumbles way too often. He can't be trusted to hold for placements, a traditional quarterback duty because of the threat of the fake. (Yes, I see the modern tendency to ignore that by having the punter do it. I don't like the results of that, either.)

Give me a guy so thoroughly familiar with his offense that he doesn't even bother talking to the OC on those stupid radios and can therefore come up with a decent audible when necessary. If necessary, reduce the complexity of the offense to do so. A balanced attack is the ticket, not 90% pass. I don't mind a bit of throwing long on the theory that it will open up the running game, but I don't want to see a ton of long passes, either. When it comes to Cowboys, Eddie LeBaron would be a better choice than Romo.

SuperHornet wrote:You overstepped your argument by mentioning Warren Moon. He won multiple consecutive Grey Cups.

Um, touché, I guess…

The QB rating is about as convoluted as that stupid Massey Rating. It's way too complicated. It also places way too much emphasis on throwing all the time. No, I don't want a guy like Dilfer, who could barely manage a game and couldn't win to save his life. But as far as I'm concerned, Romo is only one step to the good side of that. He throws too many picks and he fumbles way too often. He can't be trusted to hold for placements, a traditional quarterback duty because of the threat of the fake. (Yes, I see the modern tendency to ignore that by having the punter do it. I don't like the results of that, either.)

The QB Rating isn't complicated. It just takes 4 factors (completion %, Yds./Att., TD %, and INT %) and proportions the numbers so they're on equal footing. It's similar to the college efficiency rating system, just on a slightly different number scale (I think the pro version is better, since the college one overvalues yards & TDs and undervalues INTs, but that's another argument). I agree that it isn't complete—it doesn't factor in non-passing statistics like rushing, fumbles, avoiding sacks, etc. It does give a really good picture of how good a passer a guy is, though, and that's by far the most important thing for NFL QBs.

His fumble numbers don't seem too bad (worse than Aikman, Staubach & White; better than Meredith & Bledsoe), but your assertion that he throws too many picks is way off base. Among regular Dallas starters, Romo has the lowest career INT % in the history of the Cowboys.

Mvemjsunpx wrote:

SuperHornet wrote:You overstepped your argument by mentioning Warren Moon. He won multiple consecutive Grey Cups.

Um, touché, I guess…

The QB rating is about as convoluted as that stupid Massey Rating. It's way too complicated. It also places way too much emphasis on throwing all the time. No, I don't want a guy like Dilfer, who could barely manage a game and couldn't win to save his life. But as far as I'm concerned, Romo is only one step to the good side of that. He throws too many picks and he fumbles way too often. He can't be trusted to hold for placements, a traditional quarterback duty because of the threat of the fake. (Yes, I see the modern tendency to ignore that by having the punter do it. I don't like the results of that, either.)

The QB Rating isn't complicated. It just takes 4 factors (completion %, Yds./Att., TD %, and INT %) and proportions the numbers so they're on equal footing. It's similar to the college efficiency rating system, just on a slightly different number scale (I think the pro version is better, since the college one overvalues yards & TDs and undervalues INTs, but that's another argument). I agree that it isn't complete—it doesn't factor in non-passing statistics like rushing, fumbles, avoiding sacks, etc. It does give a really good picture of how good a passer a guy is, though, and that's by far the most important thing for NFL QBs.

His fumble numbers don't seem too bad (worse than Aikman, Staubach & White; better than Meredith & Bledsoe), but your assertion that he throws too many picks is way off base. Among regular Dallas starters, Romo has the lowest career INT % in the history of the Cowboys.

Romo is a much better QB than people give him credit for. Cowboys fans just bitch about him because he hasn't won any Super Bowls and other teams fans bitch about anything that has to do with the Cowboys. It seems it has gotten to the point that he could lead the team to a Super Bowl victory next year and SH would probably still hate on him. It's just the cool thing to do now.

Vidav wrote:Romo is a much better QB than people give him credit for. Cowboys fans just bitch about him because he hasn't won any Super Bowls and other teams fans bitch about anything that has to do with the Cowboys. It seems it has gotten to the point that he could lead the team to a Super Bowl victory next year and SH would probably still hate on him. It's just the cool thing to do now.

Exactly. A lot of NFL guys get unfair hate, but Romo's seems to be particularly disproportionate given his stats. I am surprised that he's ripped on so much in places like here, though, since he is a I-AA guy. Of course, so is Terrell Owens…

Romo could lead a team to a Super Bowl, but he needs an O-Line that doesn't suck & receivers that can stay healthy for more than 5 minutes.

Mvemjsunpx wrote:Romo could lead a team to a Super Bowl, but he needs an O-Line that doesn't suck & receivers that can stay healthy for more than 5 minutes.

The same could be said for Tebow.

That said, I think the new situation could be beneficial for him should both he and the Broncos allow it to be so. A chance to learn under an aging mentor who still has SOME juice who would make a good transition into a QBs Coach or OC. The other obvious option would be a trade to Miami or Jacksonville. I just hope they wouldn't be crass enough to ship Tebow somewhere with no chance of winning in the immediate future (like Buffalo).

SuperHornet wrote:

Mvemjsunpx wrote:Romo could lead a team to a Super Bowl, but he needs an O-Line that doesn't suck & receivers that can stay healthy for more than 5 minutes.

The same could be said for Tebow.

I don't know about that. I think Tebow would need an O-Line that can produce 200 rushing ypg (which is unprecedented) and the Ravens' 2000 defense to lead a team to the Super Bowl.