US SOCCER

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Re: US SOCCER

Postby Gil Dobie » Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:13 am

Soccer is going to be big in the USA........................................some day. :lol:
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Re: US SOCCER

Postby 93henfan » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:13 am

Gil Dobie wrote:Soccer is going to be big in the USA........................................some day. :lol:


Soccer is not a rich kid’s sport, but we use that model in the US. Once we get little Pedro and Saquon playing futbol on equal footing as Geoffrey going to Catholic school out in the burbs, we’ll start being a player internationally.

https://www.socceramerica.com/publications/article/70255/aiming-to-end-pay-to-play-and-play-to-win.html

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Re: US SOCCER

Postby GannonFan » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:32 am

BDKJMU wrote:
GannonFan wrote:
This will always be your 6.93 moment. We are certainly better than we were in 1994, which is what you first said. And yes, we'll still make the World Cup - the CONCACAF qualifying is extremely forgiving. We're basically doing what Mexico did to qualify for the 2014 World Cup. I'm sure they were worse than our 1994 team then as well. :coffee:

:lol:


I'm sorry, I must have missed your post calling in advance the monumental upset last night. Can you resend the link where you called that? Thanks, asking for friend. :thumb:
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Re: US SOCCER

Postby Gil Dobie » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:38 am

93henfan wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:Soccer is going to be big in the USA........................................some day. :lol:


Soccer is not a rich kid’s sport, but we use that model in the US. Once we get little Pedro and Saquon playing futbol on equal footing as Geoffrey going to Catholic school out in the burbs, we’ll start being a player internationally.

https://www.socceramerica.com/publications/article/70255/aiming-to-end-pay-to-play-and-play-to-win.html


I coached 9 different girls youth soccer teams. Our organization pushed the fun aspect. Only problem is, the best athletes still move on in other sports. In our case, the best athlete in the league went on to LIU to play women's basketball. Soccer is still pretty low on the American sports scene.
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Re: US SOCCER

Postby 93henfan » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:38 am

GannonFan wrote:
BDKJMU wrote: :lol:


I'm sorry, I must have missed your post calling in advance the monumental upset last night. Can you resend the link where you called that? Thanks, asking for friend. :thumb:


BDK lives to armchair QB (as well as try to scoop everyone on everything; hey, everybody has to get their jollies somehow), but I’m sure you already knew that by now.

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Re: US SOCCER

Postby GannonFan » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:43 am

93henfan wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:Soccer is going to be big in the USA........................................some day. :lol:


Soccer is not a rich kid’s sport, but we use that model in the US. Once we get little Pedro and Saquon playing futbol on equal footing as Geoffrey going to Catholic school out in the burbs, we’ll start being a player internationally.

https://www.socceramerica.com/publications/article/70255/aiming-to-end-pay-to-play-and-play-to-win.html


Forget just the Catholic school thing (do people really send their kids to Catholic school out in the burbs in large enough numbers? I thought that was an urban thing where the public schools aren't good enough).

But you have certainly seen that soccer is a lily white/country club sort of sport where this is big money being made just to have kids play. Most of the travel teams these day used paid trainers, and they're often assistant coaches or the type from local colleges who are making money on the side to supplement the low pay they get at the colleges. And most of these travel clubs have apparel deals with Adidas or the like to only buy from Adidas. There are certainly people who are making careers out of just running or coaching in clubs like these and are making a lot of money. When you then tie in stuff like ODP (Olympic Development Program) - where again you only end up with families with tons of money who can afford to take their kids to distant locations for tryouts and practices and then, these things like ODP also include regional travel and when the kids get older, international travel, then you're only going to get a certain subset of the American population who can afford it. The local soccer club in my town (my kids don't play for it anymore) is an Adidas club and the travel teams, once you're 11 or 12, are at least $3k a year just to play, not to mention the travel and overnight costs and then even some "optional" (nothing is optional - it's like voluntary workouts in the NFL - you can not show up, and they'll just make sure you don't make the team next year) training. And of course, it's year round and they discourage playing other sports. It's not an encouraging model and it's more about what's best for the coaches and the club's bottom lines than it's about training kids. And soccer isn't the only sport doing this, you're starting to see the same thing happen with baseball where the local leagues are fading away in favor of travel teams, again with paid coaches making a living doing this, charging tons of money to say you're premier, but really the level of baseball is no different than it was before this model was put in place. Youth sports, it's just ugly out there.
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Re: US SOCCER

Postby bandl » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:49 am

GannonFan wrote:
93henfan wrote:
Soccer is not a rich kid’s sport, but we use that model in the US. Once we get little Pedro and Saquon playing futbol on equal footing as Geoffrey going to Catholic school out in the burbs, we’ll start being a player internationally.

https://www.socceramerica.com/publications/article/70255/aiming-to-end-pay-to-play-and-play-to-win.html


Forget just the Catholic school thing (do people really send their kids to Catholic school out in the burbs in large enough numbers? I thought that was an urban thing where the public schools aren't good enough).

But you have certainly seen that soccer is a lily white/country club sort of sport where this is big money being made just to have kids play. Most of the travel teams these day used paid trainers, and they're often assistant coaches or the type from local colleges who are making money on the side to supplement the low pay they get at the colleges. And most of these travel clubs have apparel deals with Adidas or the like to only buy from Adidas. There are certainly people who are making careers out of just running or coaching in clubs like these and are making a lot of money. When you then tie in stuff like ODP (Olympic Development Program) - where again you only end up with families with tons of money who can afford to take their kids to distant locations for tryouts and practices and then, these things like ODP also include regional travel and when the kids get older, international travel, then you're only going to get a certain subset of the American population who can afford it. The local soccer club in my town (my kids don't play for it anymore) is an Adidas club and the travel teams, once you're 11 or 12, are at least $3k a year just to play, not to mention the travel and overnight costs and then even some "optional" (nothing is optional - it's like voluntary workouts in the NFL - you can not show up, and they'll just make sure you don't make the team next year) training. And of course, it's year round and they discourage playing other sports. It's not an encouraging model and it's more about what's best for the coaches and the club's bottom lines than it's about training kids. And soccer isn't the only sport doing this, you're starting to see the same thing happen with baseball where the local leagues are fading away in favor of travel teams, again with paid coaches making a living doing this, charging tons of money to say you're premier, but really the level of baseball is no different than it was before this model was put in place. Youth sports, it's just ugly out there.


To play on the travel team in my town, for 7-8 year old boys, is ~$2000 for 3-month season. GFY with that crap.

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Re: US SOCCER

Postby GannonFan » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:49 am

Gil Dobie wrote:
93henfan wrote:
Soccer is not a rich kid’s sport, but we use that model in the US. Once we get little Pedro and Saquon playing futbol on equal footing as Geoffrey going to Catholic school out in the burbs, we’ll start being a player internationally.

https://www.socceramerica.com/publications/article/70255/aiming-to-end-pay-to-play-and-play-to-win.html


I coached 9 different girls youth soccer teams. Our organization pushed the fun aspect. Only problem is, the best athletes still move on in other sports. In our case, the best athlete in the league went on to LIU to play women's basketball. Soccer is still pretty low on the American sports scene.


Depends on where you are. Just like lacrosse, there are hotbeds of soccer in America. The stretch from Connecticut, through that section of New York, New Jersey, eastern PA, Delaware, a little bit of Maryland, and certainly Northern Virginia, soccer is big. And of course, that's where you see these really elite, really expensive soccer clubs raking in a lot of money.

And it's not just sports like soccer and baseball that will try to make the most money while making you think you're paying for something special. We have friends down in Virginia who's high school daughter shifted from travel soccer to travel volleyball. They pay about $7k-$8k for that joy of that experience, and they even had a tournament in Philly (hotel stay for them) over Easter weekend last year - actually played multiple games on Easter morning. I asked them what they hoped to get out of it and they were hoping she would make the high school team (she did) and maybe play in college (she's not going to). They have tons of money so maybe they don't feel the pain of that price tag but I almost fell out of my chair when they mentioned the cost.
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Re: US SOCCER

Postby Gil Dobie » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:58 am

GannonFan wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:
I coached 9 different girls youth soccer teams. Our organization pushed the fun aspect. Only problem is, the best athletes still move on in other sports. In our case, the best athlete in the league went on to LIU to play women's basketball. Soccer is still pretty low on the American sports scene.


Depends on where you are. Just like lacrosse, there are hotbeds of soccer in America. The stretch from Connecticut, through that section of New York, New Jersey, eastern PA, Delaware, a little bit of Maryland, and certainly Northern Virginia, soccer is big. And of course, that's where you see these really elite, really expensive soccer clubs raking in a lot of money.

And it's not just sports like soccer and baseball that will try to make the most money while making you think you're paying for something special. We have friends down in Virginia who's high school daughter shifted from travel soccer to travel volleyball. They pay about $7k-$8k for that joy of that experience, and they even had a tournament in Philly (hotel stay for them) over Easter weekend last year - actually played multiple games on Easter morning. I asked them what they hoped to get out of it and they were hoping she would make the high school team (she did) and maybe play in college (she's not going to). They have tons of money so maybe they don't feel the pain of that price tag but I almost fell out of my chair when they mentioned the cost.


Soccer is big here too for youth teams. My daughters played year round soccer, with basketball and hockey in between. Never had to pay thousands of dollars to play in anything, school, AAU or local town teams.
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Re: US SOCCER

Postby GannonFan » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:00 am

bandl wrote:
GannonFan wrote:
Forget just the Catholic school thing (do people really send their kids to Catholic school out in the burbs in large enough numbers? I thought that was an urban thing where the public schools aren't good enough).

But you have certainly seen that soccer is a lily white/country club sort of sport where this is big money being made just to have kids play. Most of the travel teams these day used paid trainers, and they're often assistant coaches or the type from local colleges who are making money on the side to supplement the low pay they get at the colleges. And most of these travel clubs have apparel deals with Adidas or the like to only buy from Adidas. There are certainly people who are making careers out of just running or coaching in clubs like these and are making a lot of money. When you then tie in stuff like ODP (Olympic Development Program) - where again you only end up with families with tons of money who can afford to take their kids to distant locations for tryouts and practices and then, these things like ODP also include regional travel and when the kids get older, international travel, then you're only going to get a certain subset of the American population who can afford it. The local soccer club in my town (my kids don't play for it anymore) is an Adidas club and the travel teams, once you're 11 or 12, are at least $3k a year just to play, not to mention the travel and overnight costs and then even some "optional" (nothing is optional - it's like voluntary workouts in the NFL - you can not show up, and they'll just make sure you don't make the team next year) training. And of course, it's year round and they discourage playing other sports. It's not an encouraging model and it's more about what's best for the coaches and the club's bottom lines than it's about training kids. And soccer isn't the only sport doing this, you're starting to see the same thing happen with baseball where the local leagues are fading away in favor of travel teams, again with paid coaches making a living doing this, charging tons of money to say you're premier, but really the level of baseball is no different than it was before this model was put in place. Youth sports, it's just ugly out there.


To play on the travel team in my town, for 7-8 year old boys, is ~$2000 for 3-month season. GFY with that crap.


My older son is the only one of my three boys still playing travel soccer. We pay, once you include everything including lodging, about $1500 per year for a 12 month season (tournaments in August, Columbus Day, and end of Fall, a Fall season, and then training over the winter, maybe a winter indoor league, and then two tournaments in the Spring with a Spring league and state cup play as well). I think that's the max I'd want to pay (basically $100 a month).

My other son plays on a travel basketball team - through our Rec league it's the team you need to tryout and be selected for - I end up paying about $400 total for that, and it includes at least twice a week practice from mid October through mid March, at least two tournaments, all local, and then play in a local league where there's no more than a 30 minute drive). He also plays for a travel baseball team that's the same thing as basketball, except he plays the Rec league first and then it's just a tournament team built out of players from that league. I probably spent about $600 this year on that - ran from April to July - and that was only because they splurged this year and they went to the Cal Ripken place in Aberdeen for a tournament and I had to get a hotel room. Played several tournaments were they played "pay for play" travel baseball teams from multiple states - I loved looking up how much those families were paying (didn't see anything less than $2k for half a year, in most cases well over $3k for half a year). For every 10 of those pay for play teams, maybe 1 of them were real good. The rest were all stealing money.

My youngest only plays local leagues and we're keeping it that way.
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Re: US SOCCER

Postby bluehenbillk » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:08 am

95 pages on Soccer? Who would've thunk it.....
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Re: US SOCCER

Postby bandl » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:10 am

GannonFan wrote:
bandl wrote:
To play on the travel team in my town, for 7-8 year old boys, is ~$2000 for 3-month season. GFY with that crap.


My older son is the only one of my three boys still playing travel soccer. We pay, once you include everything including lodging, about $1500 per year for a 12 month season (tournaments in August, Columbus Day, and end of Fall, a Fall season, and then training over the winter, maybe a winter indoor league, and then two tournaments in the Spring with a Spring league and state cup play as well). I think that's the max I'd want to pay (basically $100 a month).

My other son plays on a travel basketball team - through our Rec league it's the team you need to tryout and be selected for - I end up paying about $400 total for that, and it includes at least twice a week practice from mid October through mid March, at least two tournaments, all local, and then play in a local league where there's no more than a 30 minute drive). He also plays for a travel baseball team that's the same thing as basketball, except he plays the Rec league first and then it's just a tournament team built out of players from that league. I probably spent about $600 this year on that - ran from April to July - and that was only because they splurged this year and they went to the Cal Ripken place in Aberdeen for a tournament and I had to get a hotel room. Played several tournaments were they played "pay for play" travel baseball teams from multiple states - I loved looking up how much those families were paying (didn't see anything less than $2k for half a year, in most cases well over $3k for half a year). For every 10 of those pay for play teams, maybe 1 of them were real good. The rest were all stealing money.

My youngest only plays local leagues and we're keeping it that way.

It's crazy.

How old are all your boys (BOYS)?

My boy (BOY) is 7. So basically he's about a year removed from the soccer-style that all 6-year olds engage in, in which they just all follow the ball around like a herd of cats.

It's absolutely insane to pay $2000 for a season of travel soccer when the local league is just fine. He is learning, it only takes up a few hours of our time a week (one practice and one game a week) and, most important to me, he's enjoying it.

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Re: US SOCCER

Postby Grizalltheway » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:11 am

All hail Herman the German. :notworthy: :notworthy:


See>? I TOLD you.

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Re: US SOCCER

Postby GannonFan » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:17 am

bandl wrote:
GannonFan wrote:
My older son is the only one of my three boys still playing travel soccer. We pay, once you include everything including lodging, about $1500 per year for a 12 month season (tournaments in August, Columbus Day, and end of Fall, a Fall season, and then training over the winter, maybe a winter indoor league, and then two tournaments in the Spring with a Spring league and state cup play as well). I think that's the max I'd want to pay (basically $100 a month).

My other son plays on a travel basketball team - through our Rec league it's the team you need to tryout and be selected for - I end up paying about $400 total for that, and it includes at least twice a week practice from mid October through mid March, at least two tournaments, all local, and then play in a local league where there's no more than a 30 minute drive). He also plays for a travel baseball team that's the same thing as basketball, except he plays the Rec league first and then it's just a tournament team built out of players from that league. I probably spent about $600 this year on that - ran from April to July - and that was only because they splurged this year and they went to the Cal Ripken place in Aberdeen for a tournament and I had to get a hotel room. Played several tournaments were they played "pay for play" travel baseball teams from multiple states - I loved looking up how much those families were paying (didn't see anything less than $2k for half a year, in most cases well over $3k for half a year). For every 10 of those pay for play teams, maybe 1 of them were real good. The rest were all stealing money.

My youngest only plays local leagues and we're keeping it that way.

It's crazy.

How old are all your boys (BOYS)?

My boy (BOY) is 7. So basically he's about a year removed from the soccer-style that all 6-year olds engage in, in which they just all follow the ball around like a herd of cats.

It's absolutely insane to pay $2000 for a season of travel soccer when the local league is just fine. He is learning, it only takes up a few hours of our time a week (one practice and one game a week) and, most important to me, he's enjoying it.


My boys are 14, 12, and 9. My 14 year old plays for the middle school team as well as his club team and he should have a decent shot to make the high school soccer team (no freshman teams in our district so he'd have to make JV as a freshman). And of course, the local club that he doesn't play for just happens to be the club that the high school head coach also coaches for, so we'll see if he gets blackballed because he's not in the right club.
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Re: US SOCCER

Postby 89Hen » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:04 am

GannonFan wrote:
GannonFan wrote:I just lean on the evidence that is overwhelming that we're better as a national team today than we were in 1994. The only way to believe otherwise is simply not to be paying attention.
89Hen, my most heartfelt and deepest apologies for my behavior on this thread. Turns out you were 100% correct (except for the 30 years thing) that the USMNT is no better than they were in 1994. In fact, I would agree with you that they are actually worse off because in 1994 the team was in a huge upward trend and now it looks more like a death spiral. My optimism got the best of me and I admit that impaired my view of this team. No hard feelings?

Don't sweat it GF. I was all set to come on this morning and gloat, but in my heart I really did want to be wrong about this one. Unfortunately, my calm, rational look at this program allowed me to see this coming a long time ago. Let's hope the reset button is pushed and our kids can have this debate again when they are our age. :thumb:
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Re: US SOCCER

Postby CID1990 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:05 am

I wish we’d concentrate on rugby and forget about soccer

We have the skill sets for rugby already.... plus the way the game is played it would cut down on the catastrophic injuries... and we’d still have our gladiators

Frankly it’s embarrassing at rugby World Cup time for us... our elevens stink. But our sevens are pretty good... we can use our speed more. I’m going to the Hong Kong sevens this spring.... it is a huge drink fest
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Re: US SOCCER

Postby 89Hen » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:07 am

CID1990 wrote:I wish we’d concentrate on rugby and forget about soccer

We have the skill sets for rugby already.... plus the way the game is played it would cut down on the catastrophic injuries... and we’d still have our gladiators

Frankly it’s embarrassing at rugby World Cup time for us... our elevens stink. But our sevens are pretty good... we can use our speed more. I’m going to the Hong Kong sevens this spring.... it is a huge drink fest

Rugby is for sucks.
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Re: US SOCCER

Postby GrizFanStuckInUtah » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:12 am

All I have to say about soccer is.....















:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :ohno:
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Re: US SOCCER

Postby CID1990 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:18 am

89Hen wrote:
CID1990 wrote:I wish we’d concentrate on rugby and forget about soccer

We have the skill sets for rugby already.... plus the way the game is played it would cut down on the catastrophic injuries... and we’d still have our gladiators

Frankly it’s embarrassing at rugby World Cup time for us... our elevens stink. But our sevens are pretty good... we can use our speed more. I’m going to the Hong Kong sevens this spring.... it is a huge drink fest

Rugby is for sucks.


It’s tougher than our own brand of football that’s for sure
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Re: US SOCCER

Postby GannonFan » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:25 am

CID1990 wrote:I wish we’d concentrate on rugby and forget about soccer

We have the skill sets for rugby already.... plus the way the game is played it would cut down on the catastrophic injuries... and we’d still have our gladiators

Frankly it’s embarrassing at rugby World Cup time for us... our elevens stink. But our sevens are pretty good... we can use our speed more. I’m going to the Hong Kong sevens this spring.... it is a huge drink fest


I never enjoy watching rugby - maybe it's too close to football. I see it, and then I find myself wishing I was watching football instead. It's like the feeling I get when I watch Arena football - it's good for a couple of minutes, and then I wish I was watching the real thing.
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Re: US SOCCER

Postby Grizalltheway » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:31 am

GrizFanStuckInUtah wrote:All I have to say about soccer is.....















:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :ohno:

How enlightening.

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Re: US SOCCER

Postby GannonFan » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:31 am

89Hen wrote:
GannonFan wrote:89Hen, my most heartfelt and deepest apologies for my behavior on this thread. Turns out you were 100% correct (except for the 30 years thing) that the USMNT is no better than they were in 1994. In fact, I would agree with you that they are actually worse off because in 1994 the team was in a huge upward trend and now it looks more like a death spiral. My optimism got the best of me and I admit that impaired my view of this team. No hard feelings?

Don't sweat it GF. I was all set to come on this morning and gloat, but in my heart I really did want to be wrong about this one. Unfortunately, my calm, rational look at this program allowed me to see this coming a long time ago. Let's hope the reset button is pushed and our kids can have this debate again when they are our age. :thumb:


Stop it, you're being like BDK, you didn't see the Trinidad loss coming either, or you would've just would've quoted that post. No one, even you, said they were in a death spiral. Down or level to where they were, sure, you argued that, but losing to Trinidad the way they did, with so much on the line, is a whole different animal. It'll be interesting what happens when they dump Arena and when Gulati either resigns or loses re-election next year. Eric Wynalda said he's even considering running himself. Interesting times indeed, and now no silly thing like World Cup prep to get in the way of it.

Like I said, the shame of it is that Pulisic's first World Cup won't be until 2022 now when he's 24 years old. He should've gotten his feet wet in this World Cup so that he's ready for the scene then. Just a waste of an opportunity.
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Re: US SOCCER

Postby 89Hen » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:34 am

GannonFan wrote:
CID1990 wrote:I wish we’d concentrate on rugby and forget about soccer

We have the skill sets for rugby already.... plus the way the game is played it would cut down on the catastrophic injuries... and we’d still have our gladiators

Frankly it’s embarrassing at rugby World Cup time for us... our elevens stink. But our sevens are pretty good... we can use our speed more. I’m going to the Hong Kong sevens this spring.... it is a huge drink fest


I never enjoy watching rugby - maybe it's too close to football. I see it, and then I find myself wishing I was watching football instead. It's like the feeling I get when I watch Arena football - it's good for a couple of minutes, and then I wish I was watching the real thing.

Yeah, I much prefer Aussie Rules to rugby. To me it's like watching 1920's American football, or 1970's Blue Hens.
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89Hen
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Re: US SOCCER

Postby 89Hen » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:45 am

GannonFan wrote:
89Hen wrote:Don't sweat it GF. I was all set to come on this morning and gloat, but in my heart I really did want to be wrong about this one. Unfortunately, my calm, rational look at this program allowed me to see this coming a long time ago. Let's hope the reset button is pushed and our kids can have this debate again when they are our age. :thumb:


Stop it, you're being like BDK, you didn't see the Trinidad loss coming either, or you would've just would've quoted that post. No one, even you, said they were in a death spiral. Down or level to where they were, sure, you argued that, but losing to Trinidad the way they did, with so much on the line, is a whole different animal. It'll be interesting what happens when they dump Arena and when Gulati either resigns or loses re-election next year. Eric Wynalda said he's even considering running himself. Interesting times indeed, and now no silly thing like World Cup prep to get in the way of it.

Like I said, the shame of it is that Pulisic's first World Cup won't be until 2022 now when he's 24 years old. He should've gotten his feet wet in this World Cup so that he's ready for the scene then. Just a waste of an opportunity.

I was spot on this entire thread and you should have quit after your apology.
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Re: US SOCCER

Postby Rob Iola » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:49 am

What I don't understand is the drop-off in quality from youth club teams to college to MLS to the National team - frankly MLS and USMNT soccer is painful to watch. The average youth travel team (boys or girls) is far better at ball control, field vision, and linking passes than anything at the national level.
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