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Or greater than?

http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-brown ... t-football
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14328 ... errs-again

I'll bet Manziel will be a QB in the league longer than Pettine is a HC.

From strictly a draft blunder, RG3 > Leaf or Manziel

I don't think the Browns nor Chargers traded away a slew of draft picks to get their bust. The Skins did.

Understand what you are saying but kind of tough to say because RG III will probably have had the best individual season out of any of those guys and was Offensive Rookie of the Year in 2012 while leading the team to a playoff appearance. Injuries stopped the way he can play.

Chargers drafted Leaf in 1998 and they did not make the playoffs until 2004, the year they drafted Eli Manning.

Agree that Manziel is not a bigger bust because he was only picked later in the 1st round and with the exception of the Brown's owner (and from what it sounds like, nobody else in the organization), nobody expected much out of him.

tribe_pride wrote:Understand what you are saying but kind of tough to say because RG III will probably have had the best individual season out of any of those guys

Agree, but he cost the Skins way more. Skins got RG3, Rams got: Greg Robinson, Alec Ogletree, Stedman Bailey, Zac Stacy, Michael Brockers, Janoris Jenkins, Isaiah Pead and Rokevious Watkins

89Hen wrote:From strictly a draft blunder, RG3 > Leaf or Manziel

I don't think the Browns nor Chargers traded away a slew of draft picks to get their bust. The Skins did.

This.

89Hen wrote:From strictly a draft blunder, RG3 > Leaf or Manziel

I don't think the Browns nor Chargers traded away a slew of draft picks to get their bust. The Skins did.

there's no WAY RGIII is a greater blunder than Leaf. Not even close.

RGIII:
37 games
1063 attempts
64% completion percent
40 TD passes
23 INT's
90.6 rating

Ryan Leaf:

25 games
655 attempts
48% completion percent
14 TD's
36 INT's
50 rating

And the clincher? RGIII has never been in jail.

Browns offensive coordinator John DeFilippo is a former JMU QB..

AZGrizFan wrote:

89Hen wrote:From strictly a draft blunder, RG3 > Leaf or Manziel

I don't think the Browns nor Chargers traded away a slew of draft picks to get their bust. The Skins did.

there's no WAY RGIII is a greater blunder than Leaf. Not even close.

RGIII:
37 games
1063 attempts
64% completion percent
40 TD passes
23 INT's
90.6 rating

Ryan Leaf:

25 games
655 attempts
48% completion percent
14 TD's
36 INT's
50 rating

And the clincher? RGIII has never been in jail.

Yet.
He's black AND he has silly hair. Only a matter of time

AZGrizFan wrote:

89Hen wrote:From strictly a draft blunder, RG3 > Leaf or Manziel

I don't think the Browns nor Chargers traded away a slew of draft picks to get their bust. The Skins did.

there's no WAY RGIII is a greater blunder than Leaf. Not even close.

You're only looking at half the equation. Giving up so many picks for a QB that is now healthy and not even playing...

89Hen wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote:
there's no WAY RGIII is a greater blunder than Leaf. Not even close.

You're only looking at half the equation. Giving up so many picks for a QB that is now healthy and not even playing...

Yeah. he is not a bigger bust than Leaf but the overall drafting is probably worse. RGIII is great in what he can do but now that he is injury prone and Redskins tried to make him do what he is not good at doing, he is a very subpar professional QB. Also, the guy cannot slide. It's not like he doesn't want to. He just doesn't know how to do it right. That is baffling.

89Hen wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote:
there's no WAY RGIII is a greater blunder than Leaf. Not even close.

You're only looking at half the equation. Giving up so many picks for a QB that is now healthy and not even playing...

Doesn't matter. The vast gulf of difference in performance outweighs the draft picks issue....

Johnny did OK yesterday huh?

bluehenbillk wrote:Johnny did OK yesterday huh?

That's kind of like saying you beat your 5 year old sister in basketball. You won and looked good doing it but is it really an accomplishment?

tribe_pride wrote:

bluehenbillk wrote:Johnny did OK yesterday huh?

That's kind of like saying you beat your 5 year old sister in basketball. You won and looked good doing it but is it really an accomplishment?

Eh, Manziel's been looking like an NFL QB for the time he's been in there this year. He may not ever be a top QB, but I think he's got a decent career ahead of him being a starter in the NFL, assuming he handles the off the field issues.

GannonFan wrote:

tribe_pride wrote:
That's kind of like saying you beat your 5 year old sister in basketball. You won and looked good doing it but is it really an accomplishment?

Eh, Manziel's been looking like an NFL QB for the time he's been in there this year. He may not ever be a top QB, but I think he's got a decent career ahead of him being a starter in the NFL, assuming he handles the off the field issues.

Other than that, how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?

AZGrizFan wrote:

89Hen wrote: You're only looking at half the equation. Giving up so many picks for a QB that is now healthy and not even playing...

Doesn't matter. The vast gulf of difference in performance outweighs the draft picks issue....

One year. That's what they got out of him for a 2nd round pick that year and TWO more 1st round picks for the next two years.

GannonFan wrote:

tribe_pride wrote:
That's kind of like saying you beat your 5 year old sister in basketball. You won and looked good doing it but is it really an accomplishment?

Eh, Manziel's been looking like an NFL QB for the time he's been in there this year. He may not ever be a top QB, but I think he's got a decent career ahead of him being a starter in the NFL, assuming he handles the off the field issues.

Yeah. I was joking but beating SF is nothing to write home about this year. Whether he is a starter or career backup is still a question for me. Think he needs to still improve some more to be a starter but he is better this year than last.

89Hen wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote:
there's no WAY RGIII is a greater blunder than Leaf. Not even close.

You're only looking at half the equation. Giving up so many picks for a QB that is now healthy and not even playing...

This is where it's at. Plus if you hop into a way back machine and travel back in time every GM will tell you it was always going to be Payton or Leaf going 1-2 in that draft. No GM that would have had one of the top 2 picks was going to pass on either of those QBs.

SDHornet wrote:

89Hen wrote: You're only looking at half the equation. Giving up so many picks for a QB that is now healthy and not even playing...

This is where it's at. Plus if you hop into a way back machine and travel back in time every GM will tell you it was always going to be Payton or Leaf going 1-2 in that draft. No GM that would have had one of the top 2 picks was going to pass on either of those QBs.

Luck and Griffin were a consensus 1 and 2, and I recall a lot of people saying Griffin should go ahead of Luck...

Grizalltheway wrote:

SDHornet wrote: This is where it's at. Plus if you hop into a way back machine and travel back in time every GM will tell you it was always going to be Payton or Leaf going 1-2 in that draft. No GM that would have had one of the top 2 picks was going to pass on either of those QBs.

Luck and Griffin were a consensus 1 and 2, and I recall a lot of people saying Griffin should go ahead of Luck...

And both teams are currently in 1st place in their divisions.

Manziel was in Las Vegas last Saturday night?

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/20 ... tter_nymag#" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Oh yeah, I might have called the title right...

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14520 ... t-audition

Johnny Manziel is Jonny Bye Bye.

"Browns to move on from Johnny Manziel after latest incident

Johnny Manziel's time with the Cleveland Browns will come to an end in March, according to a league source.

The Browns released a statement from new director of football operations Sashi Brown on Tuesday that expressed disappointment in Manziel but stopped short of saying the quarterback's run in Cleveland is over.....

....The reference to league rules points to the fact that the Browns do not have the salary cap space to release Manziel on Feb. 8, the day after the Super Bowl and the first day they can do so. The move will take place when the new NFL year starts March 9, according to the source. Releasing Manziel in February would count $4.6 million against the cap, and due to the cap's machinations, the Browns do not have that space -- and will not have it in February. The cap will increase in March, which will allow them to release Manziel then.

The Browns can also try to trade him when the league year begins, but likely will encounter difficulty doing so because of his off-field issues.

Manziel's two seasons in Cleveland were turbulent, as off-field issues overshadowed his on-field performances.

Manziel famously promised that he and the Browns would "wreck this league" on draft night in 2014, but Manziel never came close to realizing the promise he showed in college.

The Heisman Trophy winner started eight games for the Browns, and he appeared in 15. He completed 57 percent of his passes, threw 7 touchdowns, 7 interceptions and had a 74.4 rating with a 2-6 record as a starter...."
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14697 ... ource-says" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Question is, will anyone be stupid enough to sign him, with the prospect of facing major off the field distractions & headaches?