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Its a WR/QB Dream Offense here is some footage http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bs6PUUH-ANg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0GumLOKV2I&t=627s

Not exactly. Without some semblance of a running game, it's way too easy for a defense to tee off on the QB.

However, I know a guy from our cross-town rival HS who coached our team for many years. When I met him, we were at a local junior college, and while there he devised a hybrid of the Run and Shoot and the Wishbone that pretty much guaranteed that the defense was in the wrong alignment because he could shift back and forth between the two formations at will. It was killer. He learned the Run and Shoot while he backed up Jim Kelly with the Houston Gamblers, a pre-cursor to Kelly's K-Gun offense in Buffalo. Our guy went on to do well with the Hamilton Tiger-Cats before going into coaching.

As for me, I'm much more comfortable with both an I-Formation attack and a West Coast style, having run the I while in HS and picked up the West Coast at UOP and Sac State. Both attacks can be wide open if run with that kind of a mindset, but both are much more able to generate a running attack that can keep a defense honest....

SuperHornet wrote:Not exactly. Without some semblance of a running game, it's way too easy for a defense to tee off on the QB.

However, I know a guy from our cross-town rival HS who coached our team for many years. When I met him, we were at a local junior college, and while there he devised a hybrid of the Run and Shoot and the Wishbone that pretty much guaranteed that the defense was in the wrong alignment because he could shift back and forth between the two formations at will. It was killer. He learned the Run and Shoot while he backed up Jim Kelly with the Houston Gamblers, a pre-cursor to Kelly's K-Gun offense in Buffalo. Our guy went on to do well with the Hamilton Tiger-Cats before going into coaching.

As for me, I'm much more comfortable with both an I-Formation attack and a West Coast style, having run the I while in HS and picked up the West Coast at UOP and Sac State. Both attacks can be wide open if run with that kind of a mindset, but both are much more able to generate a running attack that can keep a defense honest....

There is another hybrid of this offense called THE RED GUN the little brother or cousin to me it might be more effective because it has a strong running game to augment its explosive passing game.It was used by Atlanta in the 90s.Kelly practically BEGGED Marv Levy to use the Run-N-Shoot in Buffalo but Levy steadfastly refused but ppl said the K-Gun was another version of the offense Kelly used in his USFL days.

SuperHornet wrote:Not exactly. Without some semblance of a running game, it's way too easy for a defense to tee off on the QB.

However, I know a guy from our cross-town rival HS who coached our team for many years. When I met him, we were at a local junior college, and while there he devised a hybrid of the Run and Shoot and the Wishbone that pretty much guaranteed that the defense was in the wrong alignment because he could shift back and forth between the two formations at will. It was killer. He learned the Run and Shoot while he backed up Jim Kelly with the Houston Gamblers, a pre-cursor to Kelly's K-Gun offense in Buffalo. Our guy went on to do well with the Hamilton Tiger-Cats before going into coaching.

As for me, I'm much more comfortable with both an I-Formation attack and a West Coast style, having run the I while in HS and picked up the West Coast at UOP and Sac State. Both attacks can be wide open if run with that kind of a mindset, but both are much more able to generate a running attack that can keep a defense honest....

Moon proved this offense was legit ask Marty Schotteinheimer when he lit up the KC Chiefs for a career best 527 yds on 12-16-90 by a score of 27-10 which by all rights the score should have been much higher like 54-10!!!! Haywood Jeffires had field day accumulating 245 yds on just 9 grabs including a 87 yd bomb and Moon was wired for that game and the play was called "91 Hook".

SuperHornet wrote:Not exactly. Without some semblance of a running game, it's way too easy for a defense to tee off on the QB.

However, I know a guy from our cross-town rival HS who coached our team for many years. When I met him, we were at a local junior college, and while there he devised a hybrid of the Run and Shoot and the Wishbone that pretty much guaranteed that the defense was in the wrong alignment because he could shift back and forth between the two formations at will. It was killer. He learned the Run and Shoot while he backed up Jim Kelly with the Houston Gamblers, a pre-cursor to Kelly's K-Gun offense in Buffalo. Our guy went on to do well with the Hamilton Tiger-Cats before going into coaching.

As for me, I'm much more comfortable with both an I-Formation attack and a West Coast style, having run the I while in HS and picked up the West Coast at UOP and Sac State. Both attacks can be wide open if run with that kind of a mindset, but both are much more able to generate a running attack that can keep a defense honest....

I had read somewhere that the University Of Pacific used the Run-N-Shoot as a base offense in the 50s.I saw footage of the Montana led Niners vs Moon's Oilers too bad it was NOT for a SUPER BOWL title on the line!!!!

Elements of the Run-N-Shoot are present in almost every NFL offense STILL TO THIS DAY
And certainly in every NFL 2 minute offense

What the Run-N-Shoot really brought with it was zone beater and flood patterns
Teams played 3-4 zone defenses frequently back in the day
and aspects of the R-N-Shoot destroyed those base zone defenses



Which led to the popularization of the 4-3 two deep man with press coverage

Meh. I don't trust Cover 2. It's way too easy to split the safeties (or the corners if you're running a full invert). I'll take Cover 1 (for all intents and purposes Man Free) if I have corners who can hang with man coverage or Cover 3, mostly in the Cloud or Sky rotations, but I also like 3 Robber, with the SS robbing the curl-to-hook zone.

SuperHornet wrote:Meh. I don't trust Cover 2. It's way too easy to split the safeties (or the corners if you're running a full invert). I'll take Cover 1 (for all intents and purposes Man Free) if I have corners who can hang with man coverage or Cover 3, mostly in the Cloud or Sky rotations, but I also like 3 Robber, with the SS robbing the curl-to-hook zone.

Yes the Cover 2 can be exploited as you said by defeating the safeties by splitting them down the middle I remember a game with Chicago vs Tampa Bay John Lynch was beaten by Marty Booker on a deep post route and Lynch was not fast enough to make a play on the ball.

Chizzang wrote:Elements of the Run-N-Shoot are present in almost every NFL offense STILL TO THIS DAY
And certainly in every NFL 2 minute offense

What the Run-N-Shoot really brought with it was zone beater and flood patterns
Teams played 3-4 zone defenses frequently back in the day
and aspects of the R-N-Shoot destroyed those base zone defenses



Which led to the popularization of the 4-3 two deep man with press coverage

The NY Giants quiet as its kept used the Run-N-Shoot because of Kevin Gilbride he was the former Offensive coordinator for Houston,Jacksonville in the 90s early '00s.The St.Louis Rams in the late 90s early '00s used it as well.And I hate to say this but back in the 70s this 4 WR set was used by DALLAS I saw them use it whenever they trailed in the 4th qtr case and point:They used it vs The Redskins and they were trailing 34-23 they scored 12 straight pts and won 35-34.

Chizzang wrote:Elements of the Run-N-Shoot are present in almost every NFL offense STILL TO THIS DAY
And certainly in every NFL 2 minute offense

What the Run-N-Shoot really brought with it was zone beater and flood patterns
Teams played 3-4 zone defenses frequently back in the day
and aspects of the R-N-Shoot destroyed those base zone defenses



Which led to the popularization of the 4-3 two deep man with press coverage

The Buffalo Bills used the run and shoot doing the 90's. The K-Gun offense was the run and shoot that had a TE. Remember, Jim Kelly ran the run and shoot when he was in the USFL.

mrklean wrote:

Chizzang wrote:Elements of the Run-N-Shoot are present in almost every NFL offense STILL TO THIS DAY
And certainly in every NFL 2 minute offense

What the Run-N-Shoot really brought with it was zone beater and flood patterns
Teams played 3-4 zone defenses frequently back in the day
and aspects of the R-N-Shoot destroyed those base zone defenses



Which led to the popularization of the 4-3 two deep man with press coverage

The Buffalo Bills used the run and shoot doing the 90's. The K-Gun offense was the run and shoot that had a TE. Remember, Jim Kelly ran the run and shoot when he was in the USFL.

Yes but Kelly wanted to use the REAL RUN-N-SHOOT minus the TE but as stated before Mary Levy said no.Houston was the only squad that used it as a base offense.Atl used the RED GUN the cousin in that era.

You are correct. Coach Levy stated that he could not run without a TE.

mrklean wrote:You are correct. Coach Levy stated that he could not run without a TE.

Thanks that was never mentioned by the way did you see the film BIRTH OF A NATION???

dal4018 wrote:

mrklean wrote:You are correct. Coach Levy stated that he could not run without a TE.

Thanks that was never mentioned by the way did you see the film BIRTH OF A NATION???

Yes I did.

mrklean wrote:

dal4018 wrote: Thanks that was never mentioned by the way did you see the film BIRTH OF A NATION???

Yes I did.

I saw it 3x times plus I have the dvd.Needless to say I enjoyed the FIGHT SCENES near the end plus the extras that discuss the past and present problems of slavery and its affects on black ppl today.

SuperHornet wrote:Meh. I don't trust Cover 2. It's way too easy to split the safeties (or the corners if you're running a full invert). I'll take Cover 1 (for all intents and purposes Man Free) if I have corners who can hang with man coverage or Cover 3, mostly in the Cloud or Sky rotations, but I also like 3 Robber, with the SS robbing the curl-to-hook zone.

You realize cover one man free (cover one under) was the primary defense that just LOST THE SUPERBOWL...

Chizzang wrote:

SuperHornet wrote:Meh. I don't trust Cover 2. It's way too easy to split the safeties (or the corners if you're running a full invert). I'll take Cover 1 (for all intents and purposes Man Free) if I have corners who can hang with man coverage or Cover 3, mostly in the Cloud or Sky rotations, but I also like 3 Robber, with the SS robbing the curl-to-hook zone.

You realize cover one man free (cover one under) was the primary defense that just LOST THE SUPERBOWL...

Man Free should be a tool in the tool box, nothing more. Cover 3 Cloud/Sky/Robber should be primary. Throw some Cover Zero in there, too, but be judicious about it. Some teams like to run combo coverages (say man on one side and some form of zone on the other) hoping to confuse the quarterback, but I find that that gets a little complicated.

Chizzang wrote:

SuperHornet wrote:Meh. I don't trust Cover 2. It's way too easy to split the safeties (or the corners if you're running a full invert). I'll take Cover 1 (for all intents and purposes Man Free) if I have corners who can hang with man coverage or Cover 3, mostly in the Cloud or Sky rotations, but I also like 3 Robber, with the SS robbing the curl-to-hook zone.

You realize cover one man free (cover one under) was the primary defense that just LOST THE SUPERBOWL...

They copied from Seattle of course.

You guys all played WAAAAAAY too much Madden back in the day.

Except SH, he prolly maxed out at Tecmo Bowl

Answer: Run-N-Shoot

Question: What does kalm do when he eats gluten?

Run N Shoot?

This should be in the Gorillas in the Mist thread.














































Oh wait...maybe not.

bandl wrote:You guys all played WAAAAAAY too much Madden back in the day.

Except SH, he prolly maxed out at Tecmo Bowl

Not me.

bandl wrote:You guys all played WAAAAAAY too much Madden back in the day.

Except SH, he prolly maxed out at Tecmo Bowl

I enjoyed playing Madden, but I had to play the computer to have any success. Put me up against a human, and I'm toast, simply because I forget I'm playing a human and play the game straight. A human figures that out real quick and pulls something that would be complete football "suicide" in real life, but I can't defend it because I'm playing it straight.

Case in point: I was in a tournament on the messdecks during a deployment, and I had my opponent backed up, fourth and a zillion inside his own one. Naturally, I went for the all-out block, because he's OBVIOUSLY going to punt. Not so fast. Just as the XO came walking by, my opponent threw what we now know as the Aaron Rodgers Special down the left sideline with nobody to cover. "Only the RP..." muttered the XO.

That's my love-hate relationship with Madden in a nutshell....

SuperHornet wrote:

bandl wrote:You guys all played WAAAAAAY too much Madden back in the day.

Except SH, he prolly maxed out at Tecmo Bowl

I enjoyed playing Madden, but I had to play the computer to have any success. Put me up against a human, and I'm toast, simply because I forget I'm playing a human and play the game straight. A human figures that out real quick and pulls something that would be complete football "suicide" in real life, but I can't defend it because I'm playing it straight.

Case in point: I was in a tournament on the messdecks during a deployment, and I had my opponent backed up, fourth and a zillion inside his own one. Naturally, I went for the all-out block, because he's OBVIOUSLY going to punt. Not so fast. Just as the XO came walking by, my opponent threw what we now know as the Aaron Rodgers Special down the left sideline with nobody to cover. "Only the RP..." muttered the XO.

That's my love-hate relationship with Madden in a nutshell....

I have a newfound respect for you.