Hall of Fame Modern Era Vets Committee Vote

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Who Gets In the Hall of Fame

Poll ended at Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:02 am

Jack Morris
5
14%
Alan Trammel
5
14%
Marvin Miller
3
8%
Dale Murphy
4
11%
Don Mattingly
2
6%
Tommy John
4
11%
Luis Tiant
3
8%
Steve Garvey
4
11%
Dave Parker
4
11%
Ted Simmons
2
6%
 
Total votes: 36

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Re: Hall of Fame Modern Era Vets Committee Vote

Postby Gil Dobie » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:04 pm

JoltinJoe wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/1986/07/07/sports/who-is-baseball-s-best-players-say-mattingly.html?pagewanted=all

https://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/5-mlb-players-that-deserve-hall-of-fame-honors.html/?a=viewall

Mattingly was the best all-around player in the game in the mid-1980s, and it started at the plate. He won the batting title in 1984 (.343), led all baseball with 145 RBIs during his 1985 MVP year, led the league in hits twice (238, 207) and total bases twice. “The Hit Man” did not walk his way on base, yet he posted a career .358 OBP to go along with his .307 batting average.

9 Gold Gloves: Since the award was invented in 1957, only one first baseman (Keith Hernandez) has ever had more. Mattingly was as slick at first as can be. He excelled at nabbing popups toward the stands down the first-base line.

X factors: In terms of any of the intangibles, Mattingly’s contribution to his team and the game as a whole can’t be overstated. He represented the purity of baseball better than any player, and his example engendered the style of play that led to four Yankees championships in five years following his retirement in 1995.


The more you post the more I'm leaning towards Puckett being better with 2 Championships while he played a key role.
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Re: Hall of Fame Modern Era Vets Committee Vote

Postby dbackjon » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:07 pm

Honest question - how big of a deal are Gold Gloves, anyways? It seems that once a player starts winning them, they get locked into the spot for years, regardless if another player has a better year THAT year.
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Re: Hall of Fame Modern Era Vets Committee Vote

Postby Gil Dobie » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:11 pm

dbackjon wrote:Honest question - how big of a deal are Gold Gloves, anyways? It seems that once a player starts winning them, they get locked into the spot for years, regardless if another player has a better year THAT year.


Puckett was inning gold gloves until a guy named Griffey came along.
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Re: Hall of Fame Modern Era Vets Committee Vote

Postby Gil Dobie » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:22 pm

JoltinJoe wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/1986/07/07/sports/who-is-baseball-s-best-players-say-mattingly.html?pagewanted=all

https://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/5-mlb-players-that-deserve-hall-of-fame-honors.html/?a=viewall

Mattingly was the best all-around player in the game in the mid-1980s, and it started at the plate. He won the batting title in 1984 (.343), led all baseball with 145 RBIs during his 1985 MVP year, led the league in hits twice (238, 207) and total bases twice. “The Hit Man” did not walk his way on base, yet he posted a career .358 OBP to go along with his .307 batting average.

9 Gold Gloves: Since the award was invented in 1957, only one first baseman (Keith Hernandez) has ever had more. Mattingly was as slick at first as can be. He excelled at nabbing popups toward the stands down the first-base line.

X factors: In terms of any of the intangibles, Mattingly’s contribution to his team and the game as a whole can’t be overstated. He represented the purity of baseball better than any player, and his example engendered the style of play that led to four Yankees championships in five years following his retirement in 1995.


Mattingly at best was a 4 tool player, giving him a strong arm playing first base is debatable. Puckett had all 5 tools. Puckett won a batting title in 1989 hitting .339, and led the AL in RBI in 1994. Led the league 4 times in hits and total bases twice. Career .318 hitter, with a .360 OBP. Twice told the Twins players in the locker room to jump on his back and they won World Series.
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Re: Hall of Fame Modern Era Vets Committee Vote

Postby dbackjon » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:29 pm

Gil Dobie wrote:
dbackjon wrote:Honest question - how big of a deal are Gold Gloves, anyways? It seems that once a player starts winning them, they get locked into the spot for years, regardless if another player has a better year THAT year.


Puckett was inning gold gloves until a guy named Griffey came along.


I am much more impressed by Center Field Gold Gloves than First Base GG's.

And to lose out to Jr - no shame there.
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Re: Hall of Fame Modern Era Vets Committee Vote

Postby JoltinJoe » Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:59 am

dbackjon wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:
Puckett was inning gold gloves until a guy named Griffey came along.


I am much more impressed by Center Field Gold Gloves than First Base GG's.

And to lose out to Jr - no shame there.


A guy who can pick it at first improves the defensive play around the infield. An infielder appreciates that he doesn't have to worry about a perfect throw, especially after making a play that requires that he rush the throw. Mattingly could pick it at first, just as good as Hernandez.

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Re: Hall of Fame Modern Era Vets Committee Vote

Postby Chizzang » Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:02 am

JoltinJoe wrote:
dbackjon wrote:
I am much more impressed by Center Field Gold Gloves than First Base GG's.

And to lose out to Jr - no shame there.


A guy who can pick it at first improves the defensive play around the infield. An infielder appreciates that he doesn't have to worry about a perfect throw, especially after making a play that requires that he rush the throw. Mattingly could pick it at first, just as good as Hernandez.


and he was the best player in all of major league baseball for (apparently 5 consecutive years)

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Re: Hall of Fame Modern Era Vets Committee Vote

Postby Gil Dobie » Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:37 am

Chizzang wrote:
JoltinJoe wrote:
A guy who can pick it at first improves the defensive play around the infield. An infielder appreciates that he doesn't have to worry about a perfect throw, especially after making a play that requires that he rush the throw. Mattingly could pick it at first, just as good as Hernandez.


and he was the best player in all of major league baseball for (apparently 5 consecutive years)

:ohno:


At best, Mattingly was the third best position player in 1986.

1983 Cal Ripken Jr
1984 Cal Ripken Jr
1985 Rickey Henderson
1986 Wade Boggs
1987 Tony Gwynn
1988 Wade Boggs
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Re: Hall of Fame Modern Era Vets Committee Vote

Postby GannonFan » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:18 am

dbackjon wrote:Honest question - how big of a deal are Gold Gloves, anyways? It seems that once a player starts winning them, they get locked into the spot for years, regardless if another player has a better year THAT year.


Bobby Abreu, quite possibly one of the worst fielding outfielders I've seen in my time, a guy with the range of about 1 foot or two to either side of his body, won a Golden Glove. Therefore Golden Gloves are pretty meaningless. :coffee:
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Re: Hall of Fame Modern Era Vets Committee Vote

Postby Gil Dobie » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:32 am

GannonFan wrote:
dbackjon wrote:Honest question - how big of a deal are Gold Gloves, anyways? It seems that once a player starts winning them, they get locked into the spot for years, regardless if another player has a better year THAT year.


Bobby Abreu, quite possibly one of the worst fielding outfielders I've seen in my time, a guy with the range of about 1 foot or two to either side of his body, won a Golden Glove. Therefore Golden Gloves are pretty meaningless. :coffee:


I looked at his stats. Amazed he had 10 and 11 triples for a couple seasons.
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Re: Hall of Fame Modern Era Vets Committee Vote

Postby Chizzang » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:35 am

Gil Dobie wrote:
GannonFan wrote:
Bobby Abreu, quite possibly one of the worst fielding outfielders I've seen in my time, a guy with the range of about 1 foot or two to either side of his body, won a Golden Glove. Therefore Golden Gloves are pretty meaningless. :coffee:


I looked at his stats. Amazed he had 10 and 11 triples for a couple seasons.


In baseball it's easy to confuse "Range" with "Hustle"
Bobby was plenty fast he just didn't give a flying fuck when in the field...


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Re: Hall of Fame Modern Era Vets Committee Vote

Postby GannonFan » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:49 am

Chizzang wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:
I looked at his stats. Amazed he had 10 and 11 triples for a couple seasons.


In baseball it's easy to confuse "Range" with "Hustle"
Bobby was plenty fast he just didn't give a flying **** when in the field...


:nod:


Indeed. Abreu was always a me-first guy concerned with his own stats. If there was a chance he could move towards a ball and miss it and get charged with an error, his approach was to just let the ball land and avoid the possibility of an error. He was never much of a clutch hitter - he piled up a lot of stats that didn't impact the game.
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Re: Hall of Fame Modern Era Vets Committee Vote

Postby SuperHornet » Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:14 pm

Gil Dobie wrote:
SuperHornet wrote:
No. I'll take Lopes-Russell over those two....


From 1983-88 Lopes played for Oakland, Chicago Cubs and Houston Astros
Dodgers 2nd baseman was Steve Sax


You WOULD bring up Mr. I Can't Throw to First.

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Re: Hall of Fame Modern Era Vets Committee Vote

Postby JoltinJoe » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:22 am

Gil Dobie wrote:
Chizzang wrote:
and he was the best player in all of major league baseball for (apparently 5 consecutive years)

:ohno:


At best, Mattingly was the third best position player in 1986.

1983 Cal Ripken Jr
1984 Cal Ripken Jr
1985 Rickey Henderson
1986 Wade Boggs
1987 Tony Gwynn
1988 Wade Boggs


You're being ridiculous. Mattingly led MLB in OPS in 1986, and should have been the AL MVP for the second straight year. His OPS+ for 1986 was 161. He was the toughest out in the game, played superlative defense, and most people who understand baseball would say that, of Mattingly's many superlative seasons, 1986 was actually his best year.

On top of leading MLB in OPS in 1986, Mattingly also led MLB in hits (238), doubles (53), slugging (.573), and total bases (388). He tied for 7th in homers with 31.

People forget that Mattingly was a brilliant gap hitter who stroked 45-50 doubles every year. He was not, properly speaking, a home run guy. His power was to the gaps, and he could go the other way just as easily as he could pull into the gap.

BTW, here's yet another commentator acknowledging Mattingly's claim as the best player in baseball from 1984 through 1988. It is silly to make any such claim about Kirby Puckett at any point during his career.

https://calltothepen.com/2017/01/27/mlb ... k-held-up/
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Re: Hall of Fame Modern Era Vets Committee Vote

Postby JoltinJoe » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:23 am

Chizzang wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:
I looked at his stats. Amazed he had 10 and 11 triples for a couple seasons.


In baseball it's easy to confuse "Range" with "Hustle"
Bobby was plenty fast he just didn't give a flying **** when in the field...


:nod:


He was deathly afraid of walls and would literally stop short one or two steps onto the warning track.

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Re: Hall of Fame Modern Era Vets Committee Vote

Postby Gil Dobie » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:50 am

JoltinJoe wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:
At best, Mattingly was the third best position player in 1986.

1983 Cal Ripken Jr
1984 Cal Ripken Jr
1985 Rickey Henderson
1986 Wade Boggs
1987 Tony Gwynn
1988 Wade Boggs


You're being ridiculous. Mattingly led MLB in OPS in 1986, and should have been the AL MVP for the second straight year. His OPS+ for 1986 was 161. He was the toughest out in the game, played superlative defense, and most people who understand baseball would say that, of Mattingly's many superlative seasons, 1986 was actually his best year.

On top of leading MLB in OPS in 1986, Mattingly also led MLB in hits (238), doubles (53), and total bases (388). He tied for 7th in homers with 31.

People forget that Mattingly was a brilliant gap hitter who stroked 45-50 doubles every year. He was not, properly speaking, a home run guy. His power was to the gaps, and he could go the other way just as easily as he could pull into the gap.

BTW, here's yet another commentator acknowledging Mattingly's claim as the best player in baseball from 1984 through 1988. It is silly to make any such claim about Kirby Puckett at any point during his career.

https://calltothepen.com/2017/01/27/mlb ... k-held-up/


You are using a link to a guy that bleeds Yankee blue, just like you. I never said Puckett was the best player in the league, just better than Mattingly. Mattingly's best year he was the 3rd best offensive player behind Boggs, and the best player was probably Roger Clemens 24-4 that year, and MVP.
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Re: Hall of Fame Modern Era Vets Committee Vote

Postby Chizzang » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:12 am

JoltinJoe wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:
At best, Mattingly was the third best position player in 1986.

1983 Cal Ripken Jr
1984 Cal Ripken Jr
1985 Rickey Henderson
1986 Wade Boggs
1987 Tony Gwynn
1988 Wade Boggs


You're being ridiculous. Mattingly led MLB in OPS in 1986, and should have been the AL MVP for the second straight year. His OPS+ for 1986 was 161. He was the toughest out in the game, played superlative defense, and most people who understand baseball would say that, of Mattingly's many superlative seasons, 1986 was actually his best year.

On top of leading MLB in OPS in 1986, Mattingly also led MLB in hits (238), doubles (53), slugging (.573), and total bases (388). He tied for 7th in homers with 31.

People forget that Mattingly was a brilliant gap hitter who stroked 45-50 doubles every year. He was not, properly speaking, a home run guy. His power was to the gaps, and he could go the other way just as easily as he could pull into the gap.

BTW, here's yet another commentator acknowledging Mattingly's claim as the best player in baseball from 1984 through 1988. It is silly to make any such claim about Kirby Puckett at any point during his career.

https://calltothepen.com/2017/01/27/mlb ... k-held-up/


I'm enjoying your spirited defense of Don Mattingly

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Re: Hall of Fame Modern Era Vets Committee Vote

Postby dbackjon » Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:05 pm

Don Mattingly for Yankee Skipper!
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Re: Hall of Fame Modern Era Vets Committee Vote

Postby Gil Dobie » Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:14 pm

dbackjon wrote:Don Mattingly for Yankee Skipper!


Dodgers wouldn't have won the pennant this year, without Mattingly on the bench prior to Dave Roberts.
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Re: Hall of Fame Modern Era Vets Committee Vote

Postby dbackjon » Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:32 pm

Gil Dobie wrote:
dbackjon wrote:Don Mattingly for Yankee Skipper!


Dodgers wouldn't have won the pennant this year, without Mattingly on the bench prior to Dave Roberts.



So the Marlins will be NL Champs in a couple years>?
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Re: Hall of Fame Modern Era Vets Committee Vote

Postby Gil Dobie » Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:46 pm

dbackjon wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:
Dodgers wouldn't have won the pennant this year, without Mattingly on the bench prior to Dave Roberts.



So the Marlins will be NL Champs in a couple years>?


JoltinJoe wrote:Mattingly taught that plate discipline to Paul O'Neill, Bernie Williams, who in turned groomed guys like Derek Jeter, Jorge Posada, and Tino Martinez. Plate discipline was the hallmark of the Yankee Dynasty of the 1990s, and it all started with Mattingly. They worked starting pitchers out of the game before the 7th inning.


Mark it down. :nod:
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Re: Hall of Fame Modern Era Vets Committee Vote

Postby dbackjon » Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:05 pm

Gil Dobie wrote:
dbackjon wrote:

So the Marlins will be NL Champs in a couple years>?


JoltinJoe wrote:Mattingly taught that plate discipline to Paul O'Neill, Bernie Williams, who in turned groomed guys like Derek Jeter, Jorge Posada, and Tino Martinez. Plate discipline was the hallmark of the Yankee Dynasty of the 1990s, and it all started with Mattingly. They worked starting pitchers out of the game before the 7th inning.


Mark it down. :nod:


:nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:
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Re: Hall of Fame Modern Era Vets Committee Vote

Postby JoltinJoe » Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:34 pm

Gil Dobie wrote:
dbackjon wrote:Don Mattingly for Yankee Skipper!


Dodgers wouldn't have won the pennant this year, without Mattingly on the bench prior to Dave Roberts.


Mattingly told the Dodgers what changes were needed in order for that team to become World Series champions. The Dodgers' front office refused to move a player Mattingly said had to go: Puig. So they mutually parted ways. Mattingly told them they had to choose between him and Puig, and the Dodgers chose foolishly.

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Re: Hall of Fame Modern Era Vets Committee Vote

Postby dbackjon » Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:37 pm

JoltinJoe wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:
Dodgers wouldn't have won the pennant this year, without Mattingly on the bench prior to Dave Roberts.


Mattingly told the Dodgers what changes were needed in order for that team to become World Series champions. The Dodgers' front office refused to move a player Mattingly said had to go: Puig. So they mutually parted ways. Mattingly told them they had to choose between him and Puig, and the Dodgers chose foolishly.



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Re: Hall of Fame Modern Era Vets Committee Vote

Postby Gil Dobie » Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:58 am

Find out Sunday, if Mattingly etal, make the grade.
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