2018/19 Hot Stove League

[Chizzang]

If making everybody around you better counts then he might be the greatest player ever

Nonsensical term when it comes to baseball. Does not apply.

Had I not played organized baseball from the time I was 8 to 19 I wouldn't dispute this
But I've experienced it first hand

[Grizalltheway]

I’m already tired of the Harper/Machado talk. The Phillies probably won’t get either one, and neither is worth the money.

These 10-year megadeals -- have any of these deals worked out? Which team has been happy that it gave out one of these deals and got a fair return?

Cano worked out great!

[css75]

You mean A-Rod wasn't worth $317 million..?
Shocked I tell you

https://www.si.com/mlb/2016/08/11/new-y ... z-contract

Derek Jeter might be the one and only.
Jeter Link

Do you think this is April 1 instead of January? Jester is probably the most overrated player in history.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[JoltinJoe]

Derek Jeter might be the one and only.
Jeter Link

Do you think this is April 1 instead of January? Jester is probably the most overrated player in history.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Saying something like this proves that you don't really understand how baseball games and championships are won.

[Gil Dobie]

Derek Jeter might be the one and only.
Jeter Link

Do you think this is April 1 instead of January? Jester is probably the most overrated player in history.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

A guy with a life time .310 average over 20 years, and 3465 hits, and 5 rings is overrated?

[GannonFan]

Do you think this is April 1 instead of January? Jester is probably the most overrated player in history.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

A guy with a life time .310 average over 20 years, and 3465 hits, and 5 rings is overrated?

Well, in css's defense, when you (or someone else) calls Jeter the greatest player of all time, it is very possible that he's being overrated.

[Gil Dobie]

A guy with a life time .310 average over 20 years, and 3465 hits, and 5 rings is overrated?

Well, in css's defense, when you (or someone else) calls Jeter the greatest player of all time, it is very possible that he's being overrated.

All I said was that he was the one and only 10 year, mega deal contract that was good.

[GannonFan]

Well, in css's defense, when you (or someone else) calls Jeter the greatest player of all time, it is very possible that he's being overrated.

All I said was that he was the one and only 10 year, mega deal contract that was good.

I think Chizz called him the greatest player ever. I personally think he's (Jeter) very good. Greatest ever? Probably not.

[Gil Dobie]

All I said was that he was the one and only 10 year, mega deal contract that was good.

I think Chizz called him the greatest player ever. I personally think he's (Jeter) very good. Greatest ever? Probably not.

I think he said greatest all-around player.

[GannonFan]

I think Chizz called him the greatest player ever. I personally think he's (Jeter) very good. Greatest ever? Probably not.

I think he said greatest all-around player.

Wouldn't that be the same thing?

Oh, and he's supposedly the best ever at making people around him better. If one buys into that concept apparently.

[Gil Dobie]

I think he said greatest all-around player.

Wouldn't that be the same thing?

Oh, and he's supposedly the best ever at making people around him better. If one buys into that concept apparently.

I would list Mays, Griffey Jr and Mantle, and they all played outfield. A-Roid would not be on my list because of his, well steroid association. Mike Schmidt would be up there for infielders, didn't hit for average though, compared to Jeter, who didn't hit for power.

[GannonFan]

Wouldn't that be the same thing?

Oh, and he's supposedly the best ever at making people around him better. If one buys into that concept apparently.

I would list Mays, Griffey Jr and Mantle, and they all played outfield. A-Roid would not be on my list because of his, well steroid association. Mike Schmidt would be up there for infielders, didn't hit for average though, compared to Jeter, who didn't hit for power.

There's also Gehrig, Ruth, Ted Williams, Joe DiMaggio, among others, to consider and would certainly jump to the top of the list. Jeter is a HOF'er and very good, just not really in most discussions for best ever (other than your 10 year contract analysis).

[Gil Dobie]

I would list Mays, Griffey Jr and Mantle, and they all played outfield. A-Roid would not be on my list because of his, well steroid association. Mike Schmidt would be up there for infielders, didn't hit for average though, compared to Jeter, who didn't hit for power.

There's also Gehrig, Ruth, Ted Williams, Joe DiMaggio, among others, to consider and would certainly jump to the top of the list. Jeter is a HOF'er and very good, just not really in most discussions for best ever (other than your 10 year contract analysis).

As far as best ever, I was referring to Mays, Griffey Jr and Mantle and all-around greats. Williams and DiMaggio for instance, were not much for stolen bases.

[Chizzang]

I think he said greatest all-around player.

Wouldn't that be the same thing?

Oh, and he's supposedly the best ever at making people around him better. If one buys into that concept apparently.

There might be no human being on earth that dislikes the Yankees more than I do (its up for debate)
But there are no statistics for what Jeter did for the bulk of his career
Never mind the fact that his statistics are incredible

I once read an article from a guy that honestly tried to put together
some of the "stuff" that Jeter did regularly that wasn't officially an MLB stat

Some of it was goofy but some of it was fascinating
If there was ever a player that could convince me there was "something more" than stats - it would be Jeter
He was a true team leader and captain in a way that isn't easy to describe
and the statistics (as awe inspiring as they are) don't tell the whole story

I'm not prone to this kind of "fables of Narnia" crap in any sport...
but in his prime what Jeter did as a whole was magic

[css75]

Derek Jeter might be the one and only.
Jeter Link

Jeter is probably the greatest all around baseball player of all time



Certainly of this generation without question
If making everybody around you better counts then he might be the greatest player ever

I called him overrated based on this. He was not as good as Cobb, Williams, Ruth, Mays, Hornsby, and many others. He merits the Hall, but don’t get carried away, the fact he played in NY already hypes him a lot.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[GannonFan]

Wouldn't that be the same thing?

Oh, and he's supposedly the best ever at making people around him better. If one buys into that concept apparently.

There might be no human being on earth that dislikes the Yankees more than I do (its up for debate)
But there are no statistics for what Jeter did for the bulk of his career
Never mind the fact that his statistics are incredible

I once read an article from a guy that honestly tried to put together
some of the "stuff" that Jeter did regularly that wasn't officially an MLB stat

Some of it was goofy but some of it was fascinating
If there was ever a player that could convince me there was "something more" than stats - it would be Jeter
He was a true team leader and captain in a way that isn't easy to describe
and the statistics (as awe inspiring as they are) don't tell the whole story

I'm not prone to this kind of "fables of Narnia" crap in any sport...
but in his prime what Jeter did as a whole was magic

Well, as far as I remember Jeter wasn't the one making the Yankees the payroll leader in the MLB for most of those years - the Yankees paid a lot of really good players a lot of money, including perhaps the best closer, so far, in MLB history.

[JoltinJoe]

David Robertson to the Phillies for two years, $23M.

DRob getting closer money, so I guess he's going to close. Club option for a third year.

[CAA Flagship]

Funny story. When my sons (SONS) were around 4 and 5 years old, I asked my oldest son who his favorite baseball player was. He said Jeter. Then I turned to my youngest son and he said ARod. I quickly said, "No it's not. It's Jeter." He said OK. I didn't realize it until he was around 10 but he copied the way Jeter lets go of the bat (in front of him instead of behind him).

phpBB [video]

phpBB [video]

[GannonFan]

David Robertson to the Phillies for two years, $23M.

DRob getting closer money, so I guess he's going to close. Club option for a third year.

Closer by committee in Philly - Kapler would never be tied down to doing something conventionally.

[93henfan]

David Robertson to the Phillies for two years, $23M.

DRob getting closer money, so I guess he's going to close. Club option for a third year.

Closer by committee in Philly - Kapler would never be tied down to doing something conventionally.

Kapler does what the receipt that his computing machine spits out tells him to do. Stop hating.

[GannonFan]

Closer by committee in Philly - Kapler would never be tied down to doing something conventionally.

Kapler does what the receipt that his computing machine spits out tells him to do. Stop hating.

Of all the things he does, the closer by committee is the least offensive to me. I think it is somewhat archaic to hold your best bullpen arm until the 9th inning. Be more flexible and get those guys in earlier if the situation merits it. Saves are a silly stat anyway, more suited to justifying a bonus or clause in a contract rather than actually winning games.

[JoltinJoe]

David Robertson to the Phillies for two years, $23M.

DRob getting closer money, so I guess he's going to close. Club option for a third year.

Closer by committee in Philly - Kapler would never be tied down to doing something conventionally.

I hear ya, but nearly $12 million for a guy who will be part of a committee? That's closer money. How do you not have him close if you are paying him that much?

[JoltinJoe]

Kapler does what the receipt that his computing machine spits out tells him to do. Stop hating.

Of all the things he does, the closer by committee is the least offensive to me. I think it is somewhat archaic to hold your best bullpen arm until the 9th inning. Be more flexible and get those guys in earlier if the situation merits it. Saves are a silly stat anyway, more suited to justifying a bonus or clause in a contract rather than actually winning games.

Some saves are more valuable than others.

A guy who can come in a turn a one-run lead in the 9th into a win 85% of the time or more -- he's putting up valuable saves.

Holding a three-run lead for an inning? Any competent big league pitcher should be able to do that almost all the time.

[Chizzang]

Of all the things he does, the closer by committee is the least offensive to me. I think it is somewhat archaic to hold your best bullpen arm until the 9th inning. Be more flexible and get those guys in earlier if the situation merits it. Saves are a silly stat anyway, more suited to justifying a bonus or clause in a contract rather than actually winning games.

Some saves are more valuable than others.

A guy who can come in a turn a one-run lead in the 9th into a win 85% of the time or more -- he's putting up valuable saves.

Holding a three-run lead for an inning? Any competent big league pitcher should be able to do that almost all the time.

Yup...
There's an epidemic of MLB executives over valuing saves

Teams just can't help themselves even though they have the math
The Red Sox (a deep Saber Metrics organization) know full well Kimbrels actual value on paper
But they can't help themselves

They will over spend to keep him

[JoltinJoe]

Some saves are more valuable than others.

A guy who can come in a turn a one-run lead in the 9th into a win 85% of the time or more -- he's putting up valuable saves.

Holding a three-run lead for an inning? Any competent big league pitcher should be able to do that almost all the time.

Yup...
There's an epidemic of MLB executives over valuing saves

Teams just can't help themselves even though they have the math
The Red Sox (a deep Saber Metrics organization) know full well Kimbrels actual value on paper
But they can't help themselves

They will over spend to keep him

The team that signs Kimbrel is highly likely to get burned on the deal.

Kimbrel up to this point in his career has been brilliant. But almost every closer in baseball history has begun to fade right around this point in his career. If Kimbrel is the next Rivera, then his next contract will be worth it. But history is not on Kimbrel's side.