Caucasian high schooler runs 9.98 100 meters

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Re: Caucasian high schooler runs 9.98 100 meters

Postby 93henfan » Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:16 pm

Pwns wrote:It's been known for a long time that speed is mostly immutable and you can't do much if all to train it. You either have the right type of muscle fibers or you don't.


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Re: Caucasian high schooler runs 9.98 100 meters

Postby JohnStOnge » Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:09 pm

Ivytalk wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:If you want me to go through some of the stuff I've gone through on previous posts I can do that. But the other members of the boards may not want to go through it again.


I’d rather have my fingernails pulled out one at a time. But do what you have to do.


Ok you talked me into it and also Gil needs documentation.

You can go to that NAEP data explorer and break things down. Two major environmental factors are socioeconomic status as indicated by whether or not students are eligible for the school lunch program and parental education level. Parental education level is the highest level at least one parent achieved.

I'll use the most recent 12th grade math test.

Overall, students eligible for the school lunch program averaged 23 points lower than students not eligible for it (137 vs. 160).

Overall, students who had parental education level "graduated high school" averaged 24 points lower than students who had parential education level "graduated college" (139 vs. 163).

Finally, overall, students eligible for the school lunch program AND who had parental education level "graduated high school" averaged 35 points lower than students NOT eligible for the school lunch program AND who had parental education level "graduated college" (133 vs. 168).

To simplify the observation I'm about to make about Asians vs. Blacks, I'm calling eligible for the school lunch program AND with parental education level "graduated high school" "disadvantaged" and I'm calling NOT eligible for the school lunch program with parental education level "graduated college" "advantaged." So "disadvantaged" average score overall 133 and "advantaged" average score overll 168.

"Disadvantaged" Asian students averaged 162. "Advantaged" Black students averaged 147. You can do a significance test using the site and, of course, the difference is highly significant. Poor Asian students with low parental education level clearly outperformed middle to upper class Black students with high parental education level. By a lot.

That kind of thing makes denying the possibility of innate ability (genetics) as a factor very questionable.
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Re: Caucasian high schooler runs 9.98 100 meters

Postby Ivytalk » Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:20 pm

JohnStOnge wrote:
Ivytalk wrote:
I’d rather have my fingernails pulled out one at a time. But do what you have to do.


Ok you talked me into it and also Gil needs documentation.

You can go to that NAEP data explorer and break things down. Two major environmental factors are socioeconomic status as indicated by whether or not students are eligible for the school lunch program and parental education level. Parental education level is the highest level at least one parent achieved.

I'll use the most recent 12th grade math test.

Overall, students eligible for the school lunch program averaged 23 points lower than students not eligible for it (137 vs. 160).

Overall, students who had parental education level "graduated high school" averaged 24 points lower than students who had parential education level "graduated college" (139 vs. 163).

Finally, overall, students eligible for the school lunch program AND who had parental education level "graduated high school" averaged 35 points lower than students NOT eligible for the school lunch program AND who had parental education level "graduated college" (133 vs. 168).

To simplify the observation I'm about to make about Asians vs. Blacks, I'm calling eligible for the school lunch program AND with parental education level "graduated high school" "disadvantaged" and I'm calling NOT eligible for the school lunch program with parental education level "graduated college" "advantaged." So "disadvantaged" average score overall 133 and "advantaged" average score overll 168.

"Disadvantaged" Asian students averaged 162. "Advantaged" Black students averaged 147. You can do a significance test using the site and, of course, the difference is highly significant. Poor Asian students with low parental education level clearly outperformed middle to upper class Black students with high parental education level. By a lot.

That kind of thing makes denying the possibility of innate ability (genetics) as a factor very questionable.

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Re: Caucasian high schooler runs 9.98 100 meters

Postby Gil Dobie » Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:28 pm

Ivytalk wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
Ok you talked me into it and also Gil needs documentation.

You can go to that NAEP data explorer and break things down. Two major environmental factors are socioeconomic status as indicated by whether or not students are eligible for the school lunch program and parental education level. Parental education level is the highest level at least one parent achieved.

I'll use the most recent 12th grade math test.

Overall, students eligible for the school lunch program averaged 23 points lower than students not eligible for it (137 vs. 160).

Overall, students who had parental education level "graduated high school" averaged 24 points lower than students who had parential education level "graduated college" (139 vs. 163).

Finally, overall, students eligible for the school lunch program AND who had parental education level "graduated high school" averaged 35 points lower than students NOT eligible for the school lunch program AND who had parental education level "graduated college" (133 vs. 168).

To simplify the observation I'm about to make about Asians vs. Blacks, I'm calling eligible for the school lunch program AND with parental education level "graduated high school" "disadvantaged" and I'm calling NOT eligible for the school lunch program with parental education level "graduated college" "advantaged." So "disadvantaged" average score overall 133 and "advantaged" average score overll 168.

"Disadvantaged" Asian students averaged 162. "Advantaged" Black students averaged 147. You can do a significance test using the site and, of course, the difference is highly significant. Poor Asian students with low parental education level clearly outperformed middle to upper class Black students with high parental education level. By a lot.

That kind of thing makes denying the possibility of innate ability (genetics) as a factor very questionable.

:suicide:


Lots of bad data. :roll:

Based on how American students perform on an old white man's test.
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Re: Caucasian high schooler runs 9.98 100 meters

Postby JohnStOnge » Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:39 pm

Gil Dobie wrote:
Ivytalk wrote: :suicide:


Lots of bad data. :roll:

Based on how American students perform on an old white man's test.


It's math, Gil. It's not bad data. Stuff like saying it's "an old white man's test" is denial of reality.
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Re: Caucasian high schooler runs 9.98 100 meters

Postby Gil Dobie » Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:39 pm

JohnStOnge wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:
Lots of bad data. :roll:

Based on how American students perform on an old white man's test.


It's math, Gil. It's not bad data. Stuff like saying it's "an old white man's test" is denial of reality.


It's truth. Intelligence test are notorious for being bias against African American culture.
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Re: Caucasian high schooler runs 9.98 100 meters

Postby JohnStOnge » Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:15 pm

Gil Dobie wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
It's math, Gil. It's not bad data. Stuff like saying it's "an old white man's test" is denial of reality.


It's truth. Intelligence test are notorious for being bias against African American culture.


No they're not. What happens is that people say an intelligence test is biased so they try to fix it. Then they get the same results. Then they do it again. And the same thing happens. What's happening is that they've set up a canard about differences in distribution being due to cultural bias. And the criterion for whether or not a test is biased is whether or not it results in the elimination of the differences in distributions. The tests never do that. So people continue to say they are have cultural bias.

Besides, the NAEP tests are not IQ tests. They are aptitude tests. The 12th grade math test just tests how good people are at math.
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Re: Caucasian high schooler runs 9.98 100 meters

Postby CID1990 » Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:00 pm

Gil Dobie wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
It's math, Gil. It's not bad data. Stuff like saying it's "an old white man's test" is denial of reality.


It's truth. Intelligence test are notorious for being bias against African American culture.


What’s an example of a question that would be more correctly answered by white people than black people?
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Re: Caucasian high schooler runs 9.98 100 meters

Postby Gil Dobie » Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:10 am

CID1990 wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:
It's truth. Intelligence test are notorious for being bias against African American culture.


What’s an example of a question that would be more correctly answered by white people than black people?


A better question would be, who has the opportunity for a better education? A kid from a predominantly white school or a minority kid from an inner city predominantly black school. We see this disparity in the education on Native American reservations and non-reservation schools. My cousin has taught at both, the Rez when he first started. His eyes open wide when talking about that school. Friends from the Rez describe how tough tough life can be there. Staying alive is a passing grade for many.

I would take a wild guess that my math teacher was better than a teacher in either of those scenarios. We even had a computer to learn from in 1976, doubts on the other two options having the same.
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Re: Caucasian high schooler runs 9.98 100 meters

Postby CID1990 » Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:17 am

Gil Dobie wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
What’s an example of a question that would be more correctly answered by white people than black people?


A better question would be, who has the opportunity for a better education? A kid from a predominantly white school or a minority kid from an inner city predominantly black school. We see this disparity in the education on Native American reservations and non-reservation schools. My cousin has taught at both, the Rez when he first started. His eyes open wide when talking about that school. Friends from the Rez describe how tough tough life can be there. Staying alive is a passing grade for many.

I would take a wild guess that my math teacher was better than a teacher in either of those scenarios. We even had a computer to learn from in 1976, doubts on the other two options having the same.


So

We’re looking for crash safety engineers with the NTSB

What to do what to do

I have legions of friends who went to one of the finest engineering schools on the east coast (NC A&T) who might tell you differently

Again, what’s an example of a test question that the white kids get right but the black kids just get stumped?

We’ve had equality of opportunity in education for 55 years now - and we’ve thrown a shitload of gummint money at inner city urban yute schools

How many centuries do we need?


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Re: Caucasian high schooler runs 9.98 100 meters

Postby Gil Dobie » Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:32 am

It's not one question, and you know it. It's a combination of what is available for education and environment. I've had a lot of minority co-workers and friends in the IT industry. Can't tell you which is smarter, because everyone has been pretty much equal.
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Re: RE: Re: Caucasian high schooler runs 9.98 100 meters

Postby UNI88 » Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:28 am

CID1990 wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:
A better question would be, who has the opportunity for a better education? A kid from a predominantly white school or a minority kid from an inner city predominantly black school. We see this disparity in the education on Native American reservations and non-reservation schools. My cousin has taught at both, the Rez when he first started. His eyes open wide when talking about that school. Friends from the Rez describe how tough tough life can be there. Staying alive is a passing grade for many.

I would take a wild guess that my math teacher was better than a teacher in either of those scenarios. We even had a computer to learn from in 1976, doubts on the other two options having the same.


So

We’re looking for crash safety engineers with the NTSB

What to do what to do

I have legions of friends who went to one of the finest engineering schools on the east coast (NC A&T) who might tell you differently

Again, what’s an example of a test question that the white kids get right but the black kids just get stumped?

We’ve had equality of opportunity in education for 55 years now - and we’ve thrown a shitload of gummint money at inner city urban yute schools

How many centuries do we need?


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We've attempted to have equality of opportunity in education but we haven't achieved it.

When the federal government tries to make it better it gets worse. That doesn't mean we shouldn't stop trying (land of opportunity and all) but we should stop using approaches that haven't worked in the past (definition of insanity and all) and try different approaches (emphasis on the plural, using state and local governments and boards as a laboratory).

There are a lot of factors that contribute to academic success / intellectual achievement. Parental involvement/expectations and friendship circle are two that I think have a greater impact when it comes to overcoming socioeconomic status and lack of hope.

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Re: Caucasian high schooler runs 9.98 100 meters

Postby CID1990 » Sun Jun 09, 2019 3:56 pm

CID1990 wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:
A better question would be, who has the opportunity for a better education? A kid from a predominantly white school or a minority kid from an inner city predominantly black school. We see this disparity in the education on Native American reservations and non-reservation schools. My cousin has taught at both, the Rez when he first started. His eyes open wide when talking about that school. Friends from the Rez describe how tough tough life can be there. Staying alive is a passing grade for many.

I would take a wild guess that my math teacher was better than a teacher in either of those scenarios. We even had a computer to learn from in 1976, doubts on the other two options having the same.


So

We’re looking for crash safety engineers with the NTSB

What to do what to do

I have legions of friends who went to one of the finest engineering schools on the east coast (NC A&T) who might tell you differently

Again, what’s an example of a test question that the white kids get right but the black kids just get stumped?

We’ve had equality of opportunity in education for 55 years now - and we’ve thrown a shitload of gummint money at inner city urban yute schools

How many centuries do we need?


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You said it was well established that tests are biased

Then you come back with educational opportunity

Those are two different things - the first one is social justice pablum ... the translation is: “tests are biased against the uneducated”

well duh

But I want to know an actual example of a test question that is inherently unfair to blacks (hint: there isn’t one)


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Re: Caucasian high schooler runs 9.98 100 meters

Postby Gil Dobie » Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:40 pm

CID1990 wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
So

We’re looking for crash safety engineers with the NTSB

What to do what to do

I have legions of friends who went to one of the finest engineering schools on the east coast (NC A&T) who might tell you differently

Again, what’s an example of a test question that the white kids get right but the black kids just get stumped?

We’ve had equality of opportunity in education for 55 years now - and we’ve thrown a shitload of gummint money at inner city urban yute schools

How many centuries do we need?


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You said it was well established that tests are biased

Then you come back with educational opportunity

Those are two different things - the first one is social justice pablum ... the translation is: “tests are biased against the uneducated”

well duh

But I want to know an actual example of a test question that is inherently unfair to blacks (hint: there isn’t one)


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Repeating myself from a previous post on this thread.

Gil Dobie wrote:It's not one question, and you know it. It's a combination of what is available for education and environment. I've had a lot of minority co-workers and friends in the IT industry. Can't tell you which is smarter, because everyone has been pretty much equal.


It means the statistic you and JSO are throwing out are bias.
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Re: Caucasian high schooler runs 9.98 100 meters

Postby CID1990 » Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:26 pm

Gil Dobie wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
You said it was well established that tests are biased

Then you come back with educational opportunity

Those are two different things - the first one is social justice pablum ... the translation is: “tests are biased against the uneducated”

well duh

But I want to know an actual example of a test question that is inherently unfair to blacks (hint: there isn’t one)


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Repeating myself from a previous post on this thread.

Gil Dobie wrote:It's not one question, and you know it. It's a combination of what is available for education and environment. I've had a lot of minority co-workers and friends in the IT industry. Can't tell you which is smarter, because everyone has been pretty much equal.


It means the statistic you and JSO are throwing out are bias.


I’m not throwing out any statistics - I’m talking about logic

If you want to say that blacks are less well educated than whites, and therefore tests of objective knowledge favor whites, then that’s one thing

But to say that standard testing is biased against blacks is extremely misleading. You might as well say that standard testing is biased against 5 year olds, the blind, and dead people. If you claimed standard testing was biased against the uneducated then you’d be Capt Obvious.

Testing against objective facts is not biased - it cannot be.




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Re: Caucasian high schooler runs 9.98 100 meters

Postby Gil Dobie » Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:44 pm

CID1990 wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:
Repeating myself from a previous post on this thread.



It means the statistic you and JSO are throwing out are bias.


I’m not throwing out any statistics - I’m talking about logic

If you want to say that blacks are less well educated than whites, and therefore tests of objective knowledge favor whites, then that’s one thing

But to say that standard testing is biased against blacks is extremely misleading. You might as well say that standard testing is biased against 5 year olds, the blind, and dead people. If you claimed standard testing was biased against the uneducated then you’d be Capt Obvious.

Testing against objective facts is not biased - it cannot be.




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Well, you brought the test question into the discussion. That was never my point.
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Re: Caucasian high schooler runs 9.98 100 meters

Postby CID1990 » Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:01 am

Gil Dobie wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
I’m not throwing out any statistics - I’m talking about logic

If you want to say that blacks are less well educated than whites, and therefore tests of objective knowledge favor whites, then that’s one thing

But to say that standard testing is biased against blacks is extremely misleading. You might as well say that standard testing is biased against 5 year olds, the blind, and dead people. If you claimed standard testing was biased against the uneducated then you’d be Capt Obvious.

Testing against objective facts is not biased - it cannot be.




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Well, you brought the test question into the discussion. That was never my point.


Huh?

Go back and look at post 29

I think you were arguing with JSO

(thats always a bad idea if you frustrate easily)


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Re: RE: Re: Caucasian high schooler runs 9.98 100 meters

Postby Pwns » Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:15 am

UNI88 wrote:We've attempted to have equality of opportunity in education but we haven't achieved it.

When the federal government tries to make it better it gets worse. That doesn't mean we shouldn't stop trying (land of opportunity and all) but we should stop using approaches that haven't worked in the past (definition of insanity and all) and try different approaches (emphasis on the plural, using state and local governments and boards as a laboratory).

There are a lot of factors that contribute to academic success / intellectual achievement. Parental involvement/expectations and friendship circle are two that I think have a greater impact when it comes to overcoming socioeconomic status and lack of hope.

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As long as we let the education researchers and policymakers try and figure it out in the primary grades.

Experiments like replacing air traffic controller exams with personality tests is not where you want to try and narrow the gap.
We get the government we deserve. :nod:

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Re: Caucasian high schooler runs 9.98 100 meters

Postby JohnStOnge » Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:29 pm

I happened across one bit of information while looking at articles for another reason (the effects of school bussing). It's in an article at https://www.brookings.edu/blog/brown-ce ... eigh-cost/.

It's a comparison between two North Carolina school districts. In one district most Black students are in predominately Black schools. In the other most Black students are in predominately White schools. Here is a graph showing that the Black test scores as well as the racial score gap is about the same for both districts (scores adjusted for socioeconomic status):

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Here is some of the discussion:

Most CMS black students were in majority black schools, while most Wake County black students were in majority white schools. The chart below shows very clearly that Wake County black students did not have higher test scores than CMS students, after adjusting for a student’s socioeconomic background. Moreover, the black-white gap was virtually identical in the two school districts.


It's just one more piece of information that is inconsistent with the idea that the reason for lower Black test scores is the quality, or lack thereof, of predominately Black schools.
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Re: Caucasian high schooler runs 9.98 100 meters

Postby Gil Dobie » Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:08 pm

CID1990 wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:
Well, you brought the test question into the discussion. That was never my point.


Huh?

Go back and look at post 29

I think you were arguing with JSO

(thats always a bad idea if you frustrate easily)


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Sorry, that post is obviously talking about test, not a test question.
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Re: Caucasian high schooler runs 9.98 100 meters

Postby Gil Dobie » Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:11 pm

JohnStOnge wrote:I happened across one bit of information while looking at articles for another reason (the effects of school bussing). It's in an article at https://www.brookings.edu/blog/brown-ce ... eigh-cost/.

It's a comparison between two North Carolina school districts. In one district most Black students are in predominately Black schools. In the other most Black students are in predominately White schools. Here is a graph showing that the Black test scores as well as the racial score gap is about the same for both districts (scores adjusted for socioeconomic status):

Image

Here is some of the discussion:

Most CMS black students were in majority black schools, while most Wake County black students were in majority white schools. The chart below shows very clearly that Wake County black students did not have higher test scores than CMS students, after adjusting for a student’s socioeconomic background. Moreover, the black-white gap was virtually identical in the two school districts.


It's just one more piece of information that is inconsistent with the idea that the reason for lower Black test scores is the quality, or lack thereof, of predominately Black schools.


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Re: Caucasian high schooler runs 9.98 100 meters

Postby dal4018 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:07 am

CitadelGrad wrote:You'd run fast also if you were being chased by a half dozen Negroes.

Typical there's a person on YouTube that was telling me that he is going to destroy all the major sprint marks and Indoor season has not started.

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Re: Caucasian high schooler runs 9.98 100 meters

Postby dal4018 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:31 pm

BDKJMU wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:Why does the color of a persons skin matter so much to some people?

Well in JSO’s defense, no white American sprinter had ever run a sub 10.0 100 meter since electric timing began in the early 1960s. According to wiki, since the advent of electronic timing, the 10 seconds barrier has been broken by 138 sprinters, including 55 Americans. Looks like only 3 white sprinters on the list, a Frenchman, a Turk, and an Italian.
https://wikipedia.org/wiki/10-second_barrier

The French guy has run a 9.92.
“...He became the first white male athlete to break the 10-second barrier in an officially timed 100 m event in 2010 and remained the only one to achieve the feat until joined by Ramil Guliyev....”
https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Christophe_Lemaitre

LeMaitre was wind aided as well.His claim to fame was running a PR of 19.80 chasing USAIN BOLT in '11 World Championship 200 finals.

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Re: Caucasian high schooler runs 9.98 100 meters

Postby CitadelGrad » Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:58 pm

Gil Dobie wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
It's math, Gil. It's not bad data. Stuff like saying it's "an old white man's test" is denial of reality.


It's truth. Intelligence test are notorious for being bias against African American culture.


Maybe African American culture is biased against African Americans.
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Re: Caucasian high schooler runs 9.98 100 meters

Postby JBB » Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:31 am

Gil Dobie wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
It's math, Gil. It's not bad data. Stuff like saying it's "an old white man's test" is denial of reality.


It's truth. Intelligence test are notorious for being bias against African American culture.


You can’t teach stupid. There is no african American culture and if there is why should I as an American be beholden to african American culture? What is african American culture anyway? Is this an african American culture or American culture? Is this the melting pot or not?

Are you talking Detroit, Chicago, Ferguson? Is that african American culture? Are you talking knockout game? Are you talking Baltimore and the cop killing by african Americans. Are you talking Oberlin college. Possibly the burning of white women to death in the streets of Wichita or Louisiana or the raping of white Woman as the Gophers so gleefully do on Facebook? Are you talking the police murders by blacks in Dallas? What do you mean by this supposed african American culture that you seem to believe exists along side American culture and requires special privileges to get by?

In a free country where all are created equal there is no room for catering to cultures, certainly not a culture of poverty, violence and crime where it’s creators can’t even present themselves in an acceptable manner.

Didn’t do nuffin and they are 100% correct. The dindos.

Here are some quotes the YBCA, a black cultural group in Ca., has to say:

They say such things as:

“I’m angry at white people most of the time.”

“It’s like, just part of like whiteness to be abusive and violent.”

“Whiteness invades my life and my mind.”

“You could be violent, and through that perpetuate whiteness. You could not look at your whiteness and be perpetuating that violence, still. Like, you could do nothing and still be violent.”

“Fuck the pigs.”

Some of the speakers encourage violence:

“I think if you’re not supporting people of color and to end white supremacy, and you’re neutral, or you are that person that’s perpetrating it, then you shouldn’t—I think you deserve harm.”

“I think that harm is radical. But I think sometimes radical is needed.”

“And, sometimes I feel like non-violence is not the best route.”

The video assumes that white people are a kind of plague; the only question is what to do about them. Some of the speakers do not call for violence, but they never say killing whites would be immoral. They have other reasons for hesitating to kill whites:

“I’m not gonna harm a white person, I’m not gonna murder a white person, ’cause I’m scared.”

“I think the reason we don’t murder more white people is because they are protected, in a sense.”

“You don’t wanna be violent ’cause that’ll make you look bad or something. Or like, make you and your community look bad. But, whiteness is violence.”

“I think that we don’t murder white people because there is a thought process around, ‘White is Right.’”

Some of the speakers make a distinction between killing white people and destroying “whiteness:”

I’m not even mentioning what the demented white whore among them had to say.

https://www.amren.com/commentary/2019/0 ... te-people/

Definitely don’t give up your guns and buy more ammunition.
Dear Lord, We come before you and humbly ask you to grant our prayer for a veil of protection to be placed over Donald Trump. May your will be done. In Jesus name we pray. Amen


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