Astros Accused of Cheating...

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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

Post by Ivytalk »

dbackjon wrote:
Ivytalk wrote:In the words of the immortal American Patriot, Al Bundy, “It’s only cheating if you get caught!”

I agree with Stephen A. Smith: the penalties on the Astros were way too harsh. I’ll bet most teams do some technocheating. Sign-stealing has been part of baseball for generations. If I sneak a peek at the catcher and see a sign for a fastball, I’m sitting on it.
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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

Post by SDHornet »

AZGrizFan wrote:Money? Meh.
Suspensions? A slap on the wrist.
FOUR lost draft picks? HUGE
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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

Post by SDHornet »

dbackjon wrote:Good Lord, will never hear the end of the crying from Yankee and Dodger Fanboys
This. I know quite a few Dodgers/Raiders fans. So now they get to cry about this along with the Brady Tuck Rule thing that happened almost 20 years ago (fuck I'm getting old).

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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

Post by bluehenbillk »

It sounds like Cora will get hit even harder than Hinch did - he led the program in Houston & then brought it to Boston....
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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

Post by CAA Flagship »

Ivytalk wrote:In the words of the immortal American Patriot, Al Bundy, “It’s only cheating if you get caught!”

I agree with Stephen A. Smith: the penalties on the Astros were way too harsh. I’ll bet most teams do some technocheating. Sign-stealing has been part of baseball for generations. If I sneak a peek at the catcher and see a sign for a fastball, I’m sitting on it.
1. Stealing signs is a part of the game and is allowed. You just can't use technology to do it.
2. "Way too harsh"? Seems like some of the players should be suspended for a month as well. Can't just punish the Vice Principal and Teacher if the students are cheating.

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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

Post by Ivytalk »

CAA Flagship wrote:
Ivytalk wrote:In the words of the immortal American Patriot, Al Bundy, “It’s only cheating if you get caught!”

I agree with Stephen A. Smith: the penalties on the Astros were way too harsh. I’ll bet most teams do some technocheating. Sign-stealing has been part of baseball for generations. If I sneak a peek at the catcher and see a sign for a fastball, I’m sitting on it.
1. Stealing signs is a part of the game and is allowed. You just can't use technology to do it.
2. "Way too harsh"? Seems like some of the players should be suspended for a month as well. Can't just punish the Vice Principal and Teacher if the students are cheating.
One thing they can’t prove is whether the cheating had an impact on the outcome of the 2017 WS. I haven’t seen any analysis of that.
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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

Post by 89Hen »

Ivytalk wrote:
CAA Flagship wrote: 1. Stealing signs is a part of the game and is allowed. You just can't use technology to do it.
2. "Way too harsh"? Seems like some of the players should be suspended for a month as well. Can't just punish the Vice Principal and Teacher if the students are cheating.
One thing they can’t prove is whether the cheating had an impact on the outcome of the 2017 WS. I haven’t seen any analysis of that.
Can you actually prove it?
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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

Post by CAA Flagship »

Ivytalk wrote:
CAA Flagship wrote: 1. Stealing signs is a part of the game and is allowed. You just can't use technology to do it.
2. "Way too harsh"? Seems like some of the players should be suspended for a month as well. Can't just punish the Vice Principal and Teacher if the students are cheating.
One thing they can’t prove is whether the cheating had an impact on the outcome of the 2017 WS. I haven’t seen any analysis of that.
I have. The Astros had much better numbers at home in the 2017 post-season. Something like 8-1 record at home and 3-6 on the road. Also, lots of offensive stats were better. But there's no way you can attribute all of that to cheating.

MLB is to blame for their slow reaction to this. Other teams knew they were cheating for a long time. How is it that MLB didn't know? It's the steroid scandal all over again.

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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

Post by Winterborn »

Red Sox's are next on the list to get looked at it sounds like.
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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

Post by Ivytalk »

CAA Flagship wrote:
Ivytalk wrote: One thing they can’t prove is whether the cheating had an impact on the outcome of the 2017 WS. I haven’t seen any analysis of that.
I have. The Astros had much better numbers at home in the 2017 post-season. Something like 8-1 record at home and 3-6 on the road. Also, lots of offensive stats were better. But there's no way you can attribute all of that to cheating.

MLB is to blame for their slow reaction to this. Other teams knew they were cheating for a long time. How is it that MLB didn't know? It's the steroid scandal all over again.
I agree. Lots of sports teams do better at home than on the road, some significantly so. If other teams knew, they should have blown the whistle.
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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

Post by GannonFan »

Ivytalk wrote:
CAA Flagship wrote: I have. The Astros had much better numbers at home in the 2017 post-season. Something like 8-1 record at home and 3-6 on the road. Also, lots of offensive stats were better. But there's no way you can attribute all of that to cheating.

MLB is to blame for their slow reaction to this. Other teams knew they were cheating for a long time. How is it that MLB didn't know? It's the steroid scandal all over again.
I agree. Lots of sports teams do better at home than on the road, some significantly so. If other teams knew, they should have blown the whistle.
Eh, baseball players, they're not exactly the most ethical when it comes to sportsmanship.
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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

Post by CAA Flagship »

GannonFan wrote:
Ivytalk wrote: I agree. Lots of sports teams do better at home than on the road, some significantly so. If other teams knew, they should have blown the whistle.
Eh, baseball players, they're not exactly the most ethical when it comes to sportsmanship.
:lol: As opposed to what other sports?

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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

Post by Ivytalk »

CAA Flagship wrote:
GannonFan wrote:
Eh, baseball players, they're not exactly the most ethical when it comes to sportsmanship.
:lol: As opposed to what other sports?
OTOH, Houston couldn’t cheat its way to a single home victory against the Nats! :rofl:
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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

Post by CAA Flagship »

Ivytalk wrote:
CAA Flagship wrote: :lol: As opposed to what other sports?
OTOH, Houston couldn’t cheat its way to a single home victory against the Nats! :rofl:
The Yankees made accusations during Game 1 of the ALCS. The Astros shut it down after that.

This article was before The Athletic published their article.
https://www.sny.tv/yankees/news/sources ... /311184886
The sign stealing did not appear to impact Masahiro Tanaka, who pitched six shutout innings in the Yankees' 7-0 Game 1 win.

According to sources, the Yankees' loud objections on Saturday night led to the Astros cutting the whistling act in Game 2.

In that game, starter James Paxton and catcher Gary Sanchez frequently changed the signs with no one on base, a clear indication that they were worried about sign stealing from a mysterious location.

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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

Post by Silenoz »

8 total teams were doing this in some manner, I hear. I just need this to take out enough franchises so that I can declare the A's the true 2018 and 2019 champions. After all, not getting any hits means you probably didn't steal shit, right?

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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

Post by AZGrizFan »

89Hen wrote:
Ivytalk wrote: One thing they can’t prove is whether the cheating had an impact on the outcome of the 2017 WS. I haven’t seen any analysis of that.
Can you actually prove it?
Stand by for Joltin' Joe to give you a thesis on why the Yankees should now be considered defacto 2017 WS champions. He's got video proof and everything! :lol: :lol:
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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

Post by JoltinJoe »

AZGrizFan wrote:
89Hen wrote: Can you actually prove it?
Stand by for Joltin' Joe to give you a thesis on why the Yankees should now be considered defacto 2017 WS champions. He's got video proof and everything! :lol: :lol:
I've already ordered my Yankees 2017 World Series Championship hoodie.

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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

Post by AZGrizFan »

JoltinJoe wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
Stand by for Joltin' Joe to give you a thesis on why the Yankees should now be considered defacto 2017 WS champions. He's got video proof and everything! :lol: :lol:
I've already ordered my Yankees 2017 World Series Championship hoodie.
I'd expect nothing less, Joe. :rofl: :clap: :clap:
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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

Post by SuperHornet »

CAA Flagship wrote:Manager Hinch and GM suspended for 1 year. Loss of draft choices. $5M fine.

The Red Sox are now on the clock.
A one-year suspension is a joke. If that's all they're going to do, it's time to reinstate Rose. Heck, it's long past time to do that, anyway....
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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

Post by dbackjon »

Alex Cora out in Boston
:thumb:

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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

Post by JoltinJoe »

Calling the outcome of the 2019 ALCS between the Yankees and Astros tainted, SportsBook is refunding bettors who lost money on the Yankees.

https://wfan.radio.com/articles/radioco ... PsoIjDeH1Y

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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

Post by AZGrizFan »

JoltinJoe wrote:Calling the outcome of the 2019 ALCS between the Yankees and Astros tainted, SportsBook is refunding bettors who lost money on the Yankees.

https://wfan.radio.com/articles/radioco ... PsoIjDeH1Y
Can you explain what happened in the 2019 WS? Where home teams went 0-7?
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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

Post by JoltinJoe »

AZGrizFan wrote:
JoltinJoe wrote:Calling the outcome of the 2019 ALCS between the Yankees and Astros tainted, SportsBook is refunding bettors who lost money on the Yankees.

https://wfan.radio.com/articles/radioco ... PsoIjDeH1Y
Can you explain what happened in the 2019 WS? Where home teams went 0-7?
According to some things I've read, the Nats became convinced that the Astros were stealing signs and they engaged in elaborate means to conceal and change their signals, on a batter by batter basis. The catcher would run up to ten signs, with the number of the genuine sign being flashed by the bench coach before each new batter. So the bench would flash five, which means the fifth sign was the real sign for Bregman. And then the bench would flash three before Altuve came to the plate, so now the third signal was operative. That's a lot of deception to decipher with just a few pitches. and then it changed again.

Also, the Astros were concerned about the Yankees figuring out what they were doing, so they were not stealing signs on every batter during the ALCS. Just in significant moments.

Why did the Nats lose three at home?
They scored one run in each game. Cole was dominant in Game 5. In other games, the Astros got solid starts and then great bullpen work.

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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

Post by AZGrizFan »

JoltinJoe wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
Can you explain what happened in the 2019 WS? Where home teams went 0-7?
According to some things I've read, the Nats became convinced that the Astros were stealing signs and they engaged in elaborate means to conceal and change their signals, on a batter by batter basis. The catcher would run up to ten signs, with the number of the genuine sign being flashed by the bench coach before each new batter. So the bench would flash five, which means the fifth sign was the real sign for Bregman. And then the bench would flash three before Altuve came to the plate, so now the third signal was operative. That's a lot of deception to decipher with just a few pitches. and then it changed again.

Also, the Astros were concerned about the Yankees figuring out what they were doing, so they were not stealing signs on every batter during the ALCS. Just in significant moments.

Why did the Nats lose three at home?
They scored one run in each game. Cole was dominant in Game 5. In other games, the Astros got solid starts and then great bullpen work.
So the belief was that it was still going on as late as this WS then?
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