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Why the arbitrary cutoff at 1950? Ted Williams' career BA is .344.

Tony Gwynn is 18th on the all-time list, behind guys like Ty Cobb, Williams, Babe Ruth, and Lou Gehrig.

93henfan wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 8:17 am Why the arbitrary cutoff at 1950?

Because he's number one if you do that.

You won’t see JoltinJoe on this thread, unless he somehow spins the numbers to put Boggs (“the Yankee Years”) or Jeter ahead of Gwynn.

93henfan wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 8:17 am Why the arbitrary cutoff at 1950? Ted Williams' career BA is .344.

Tony Gwynn is 18th on the all-time list, behind guys like Ty Cobb, Williams, Babe Ruth, and Lou Gehrig.

Mentioning Cobb, Williams, Ruth and Gehrig, says a lot about how good Tony Gywnn was.

93henfan wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 8:17 am Why the arbitrary cutoff at 1950? Ted Williams' career BA is .344.

Tony Gwynn is 18th on the all-time list, behind guys like Ty Cobb, Williams, Babe Ruth, and Lou Gehrig.

Well, the SJW in me would say that anything prior to 1950 is kinda tainted because they didn't let Blacks play - maybe stats would be different if there wasn't segregation.

GannonFan wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 9:22 am

93henfan wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 8:17 am Why the arbitrary cutoff at 1950? Ted Williams' career BA is .344.

Tony Gwynn is 18th on the all-time list, behind guys like Ty Cobb, Williams, Babe Ruth, and Lou Gehrig.

Well, the SJW in me would say that anything prior to 1950 is kinda tainted because they didn't let Blacks play - maybe stats would be different if there wasn't segregation.

I would think lower mounds would have had a bigger impact.

The real disingenuous part is listing a partial stat for Ted Williams' based on his later years.

93henfan wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 9:41 am

GannonFan wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 9:22 am

Well, the SJW in me would say that anything prior to 1950 is kinda tainted because they didn't let Blacks play - maybe stats would be different if there wasn't segregation.

I would think lower mounds would have had a bigger impact.

The real disingenuous part is listing a partial stat for Ted Williams' based on his later years.

Perhaps the more impressive stat is that Ted Williams hit .336 in his "later years"....

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 9:42 am

93henfan wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 9:41 am

I would think lower mounds would have had a bigger impact.

The real disingenuous part is listing a partial stat for Ted Williams' based on his later years.

Perhaps the more impressive stat is that Ted Williams hit .336 in his "later years"....

And to think his frozen head is sitting on a tuna can in some cryo lab in Scottsdale. That's pretty fucked up!

Ivytalk wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 8:34 am You won’t see JoltinJoe on this thread, unless he somehow spins the numbers to put Boggs (“the Yankee Years”) or Jeter ahead of Gwynn.

Take your Geritol, old man.

Gwynn was a great hitter who put up big averages, playing clean, when others were not. Like others who played clean and accomplished great things during that era, he is entitled to his acclaim.

Or are you going to just assume, without any evidence, that Gwynn used PEDs because "everyone was doing it" and he accomplished remarkable things? I've seen you guys do that before, so who knows.

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 9:42 am

93henfan wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 9:41 am

I would think lower mounds would have had a bigger impact.

The real disingenuous part is listing a partial stat for Ted Williams' based on his later years.

Perhaps the more impressive stat is that Ted Williams hit .336 in his "later years"....

Williams started his career during the later 1930s, an era with a lot of offense and lively ball. He was head and shoulders above everyone else in batting average, even hitting .400 one year.

During World War II, due a rubber shortage, baseball changed to balata to make baseballs, which deadened the ball. After complaints, baseball went to synthetic rubber, which was still not as a lively a ball, but was better than the balata ball.

Baseball went back to natural rubber after World War II, but all reports was that the post-World War II balls were not as lively as the balls used during the 1930s. Offensive production slipped throughout the later 1940s and continued into the later 1970s. Many experts say that the ball used in that era was simply not as lively as the 1930s ball, even though baseball claimed that the balls were similar.

Anyway, during years when about 10 guys hit over .300 in any year, Williams was still putting up batting averages in the .350 range!

No matter what ball used, Williams was always leaps and bounds better than even the best hitters of his times.

JoltinJoe wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 9:48 am

Ivytalk wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 8:34 am You won’t see JoltinJoe on this thread, unless he somehow spins the numbers to put Boggs (“the Yankee Years”) or Jeter ahead of Gwynn.

Take your Geritol, old man.

Gwynn was a great hitter who put up big averages, playing clean, when others were not. Like others who played clean and accomplished great things during that era, he is entitled to his acclaim.

Or are you going to just assume, without any evidence, that Gwynn used PEDs because "everyone was doing it" and he accomplished remarkable things? I've seen you guys do that before, so who knows.

You’re the easiest troll on the board, Pepitone. One fat, flopping, largemouth bass on the floor of my boat.

Ivytalk wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 11:15 am

JoltinJoe wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 9:48 am

Take your Geritol, old man.

Gwynn was a great hitter who put up big averages, playing clean, when others were not. Like others who played clean and accomplished great things during that era, he is entitled to his acclaim.

Or are you going to just assume, without any evidence, that Gwynn used PEDs because "everyone was doing it" and he accomplished remarkable things? I've seen you guys do that before, so who knows.

You’re the easiest troll on the board, Pepitone. One fat, flopping, largemouth bass on the floor of my boat.

It would be interesting to see how great he would have been viewed if he were on a decent team. I mean the Padres went from 1985-95 without making the playoffs. I certainly knew his name and that he was a great player, but being left coast on a losing team, he never comes to my mind.

Williams missed nearly 5 seasons of baseball to military service. Had he played, there's talk that he may have broke Ruths 714 HR record, or come close.

Williams was 31 in 1950, if you take Gwynn's average from 31 to the end of his career, he batted .347.

Ivytalk wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 11:15 am

JoltinJoe wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 9:48 am

Take your Geritol, old man.

Gwynn was a great hitter who put up big averages, playing clean, when others were not. Like others who played clean and accomplished great things during that era, he is entitled to his acclaim.

Or are you going to just assume, without any evidence, that Gwynn used PEDs because "everyone was doing it" and he accomplished remarkable things? I've seen you guys do that before, so who knows.

You’re the easiest troll on the board, Pepitone. One fat, flopping, largemouth bass on the floor of my boat.

Mentioning me by name isn't particularly skillful trolling. I mean even a guy from Cornell could do that, Winthorpe.

Did you get hurt patting yourself on the back, old timer?

89Hen wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 11:31 am It would be interesting to see how great he would have been viewed if he were on a decent team. I mean the Padres went from 1985-95 without making the playoffs. I certainly knew his name and that he was a great player, but being left coast on a losing team, he never comes to my mind.

If he had played for the Yankees, we'd hear people moaning that his OBP was only 50 points higher than his career average, and that he wasn't that great because "rings are a team accomplishment." And they would find some stat to support that his defense wasn't that good and that he actually cost his teams tons of runs. Also, people would claim, even without any evidence, that he was using PEDs.

JoltinJoe wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 11:55 am

89Hen wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 11:31 am It would be interesting to see how great he would have been viewed if he were on a decent team. I mean the Padres went from 1985-95 without making the playoffs. I certainly knew his name and that he was a great player, but being left coast on a losing team, he never comes to my mind.

If he had played for the Yankees, we'd hear people moaning that his OBP was only 50 points higher than his career average, and that he wasn't that great because "rings are a team accomplishment." And they would find some stat to support that his defense wasn't that good and that he actually cost his teams tons of runs. Also, people would claim, even without any evidence, that he was using PEDs.

So basically you're saying he's Don Mattingly?

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 2:27 pm

JoltinJoe wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 11:55 am

If he had played for the Yankees, we'd hear people moaning that his OBP was only 50 points higher than his career average, and that he wasn't that great because "rings are a team accomplishment." And they would find some stat to support that his defense wasn't that good and that he actually cost his teams tons of runs. Also, people would claim, even without any evidence, that he was using PEDs.

So basically you're saying he's Don Mattingly?

WWDMD against these guys

89Hen wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 11:31 am It would be interesting to see how great he would have been viewed if he were on a decent team. I mean the Padres went from 1985-95 without making the playoffs. I certainly knew his name and that he was a great player, but being left coast on a losing team, he never comes to my mind.

Wouldn't it be harder to do what he did as there were few good hitters in the lineup? Speaks to how good he was.

JoltinJoe wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 11:55 am

89Hen wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 11:31 am It would be interesting to see how great he would have been viewed if he were on a decent team. I mean the Padres went from 1985-95 without making the playoffs. I certainly knew his name and that he was a great player, but being left coast on a losing team, he never comes to my mind.

If he had played for the Yankees, we'd hear people moaning that his OBP was only 50 points higher than his career average, and that he wasn't that great because "rings are a team accomplishment." And they would find some stat to support that his defense wasn't that good and that he actually cost his teams tons of runs. Also, people would claim, even without any evidence, that he was using PEDs.

Except he had an entire career of doing what he did, and not a couple of really good seasons spread around bad ones. He hit over 300 in 19 of his 20 seasons in the MLB and rarely struck out and never hit more than 17 HRs in a season. I just wish he didn't get fat, no telling how impressive he would have been on the base paths if he stayed more mobile.

Gil Dobie wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 4:58 pm

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 2:27 pm

So basically you're saying he's Don Mattingly?

WWDMD against these guys

I heard he could have gone pro in hoops as well. Some people are just gifted, Tony was one of those people.

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 2:27 pm

JoltinJoe wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 11:55 am

If he had played for the Yankees, we'd hear people moaning that his OBP was only 50 points higher than his career average, and that he wasn't that great because "rings are a team accomplishment." And they would find some stat to support that his defense wasn't that good and that he actually cost his teams tons of runs. Also, people would claim, even without any evidence, that he was using PEDs.

So basically you're saying he's Don Mattingly?

If Mattingly had played for the Padres, he'd be in the Hall already.

JoltinJoe wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 1:50 am

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 2:27 pm

So basically you're saying he's Don Mattingly?

If Mattingly had played for the Padres, he'd be in the Hall already.

Mattingly would have missed 3 of his best years, riding the bench behind Steve Garvey.