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Ivytalk wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 6:00 am Allen, Hodges, and Oliva. Maris was a one-year wonder.

Gil Dobie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 6:27 am

Ivytalk wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 6:00 am Allen, Hodges, and Oliva. Maris was a one-year wonder.

With 2 MVP Awards, 4 time all star, gold glove winner. Still the AL home run record. Can't tell the history of baseball without mentioning Maris. Like Oliva, career numbers were down due to injury.

CAA Flagship wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 6:05 am Met Tony Oliva when I was around 10yo at Yankee Stadium. Friend's father played with him in the minors.

Gil Dobie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 6:33 am

CAA Flagship wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 6:05 am Met Tony Oliva when I was around 10yo at Yankee Stadium. Friend's father played with him in the minors.

Went to a Boys and Girls Club event at spring training. Oliva was signing autographs. All I had was an index card. Oliva looks at it, makes a couple jokes and won't sign it. I start to walk away, and Tony yells hey, throws me a brand new ball with a fresh signature. Items like that are keepers for me. Still sits on my desk.

Ivytalk wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 6:32 am

Gil Dobie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 6:27 am

With 2 MVP Awards, 4 time all star, gold glove winner. Still the AL home run record. Can't tell the history of baseball without mentioning Maris. Like Oliva, career numbers were down due to injury.

And a career .260 hitter. Oliva was .304.

GannonFan wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 7:38 am Heck, I can see why none of these guys are in the Hall yet, their career numbers don't really jump out at all. Of all of them, maybe Hodges is my only pick. Kaat is just there because he pitched in 4 different decades, Maris is just there because of the home run chase in '61 (I had no idea he was so average outside of those two years), and the rest are just blah. If any sizeable number get in from this list it just lessens the allure of getting into the HOF by a little bit.

Gil Dobie wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 7:29 am

GannonFan wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 7:38 am Heck, I can see why none of these guys are in the Hall yet, their career numbers don't really jump out at all. Of all of them, maybe Hodges is my only pick. Kaat is just there because he pitched in 4 different decades, Maris is just there because of the home run chase in '61 (I had no idea he was so average outside of those two years), and the rest are just blah. If any sizeable number get in from this list it just lessens the allure of getting into the HOF by a little bit.

Minnie Minoso had a great career. 13 all star games, career .299 hitter. Speed and RBI guy with some power.

GannonFan wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 7:38 am Heck, I can see why none of these guys are in the Hall yet, their career numbers don't really jump out at all. Of all of them, maybe Hodges is my only pick. Kaat is just there because he pitched in 4 different decades, Maris is just there because of the home run chase in '61 (I had no idea he was so average outside of those two years), and the rest are just blah. If any sizeable number get in from this list it just lessens the allure of getting into the HOF by a little bit.

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 9:35 am

GannonFan wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 7:38 am Heck, I can see why none of these guys are in the Hall yet, their career numbers don't really jump out at all. Of all of them, maybe Hodges is my only pick. Kaat is just there because he pitched in 4 different decades, Maris is just there because of the home run chase in '61 (I had no idea he was so average outside of those two years), and the rest are just blah. If any sizeable number get in from this list it just lessens the allure of getting into the HOF by a little bit.

Maris deserves to be in just because of how those asshole Yankmee fans treated him in '61. Fucker should have beat a couple of 'em with his bat and maybe they'd have shut up. I've hated the Yankmees ever since.

GannonFan wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 9:46 am

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 9:35 am

Maris deserves to be in just because of how those asshole Yankmee fans treated him in '61. Fucker should have beat a couple of 'em with his bat and maybe they'd have shut up. I've hated the Yankmees ever since.

So a Yankee player, because of how he was treated by Yankee fans, deserves to be in the HOF? We'll need to have a whole new wing built to house players like that since they are legion.

GannonFan wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 9:46 am

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 9:35 am

Maris deserves to be in just because of how those asshole Yankmee fans treated him in '61. Fucker should have beat a couple of 'em with his bat and maybe they'd have shut up. I've hated the Yankmees ever since.

So a Yankee player, because of how he was treated by Yankee fans, deserves to be in the HOF? We'll need to have a whole new wing built to house players like that since they are legion.

GannonFan wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:50 am

Gil Dobie wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 7:29 am

Minnie Minoso had a great career. 13 all star games, career .299 hitter. Speed and RBI guy with some power.

Sure, he had a good career, but that doesn't mean it's a HOF career. Nice stats, but nothing that jumps off the table - never had more than 31 steals in a year (and often was just in the teens), and he only averaged 9 HR's a year (max was 24 once). Like I said, he was a good ball player and had a nice career, I just don't see the case for the HOF.

Gil Dobie wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:04 am

GannonFan wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:50 am

Sure, he had a good career, but that doesn't mean it's a HOF career. Nice stats, but nothing that jumps off the table - never had more than 31 steals in a year (and often was just in the teens), and he only averaged 9 HR's a year (max was 24 once). Like I said, he was a good ball player and had a nice career, I just don't see the case for the HOF.

He was a rookie at 25, back when it took time to get into the majors if you were black. May have been close to 3000 hits with 5 more good seasons.

GannonFan wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:17 am

Gil Dobie wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:04 am

He was a rookie at 25, back when it took time to get into the majors if you were black. May have been close to 3000 hits with 5 more good seasons.

But they included his stats from the Negro Leagues going back to when he was 21 - that only brings him up to 2110 hits. Granted, those seasons weren't as long, but he was nowhere near a 3000 hit career even with that taken into consideration. His best year was 184 hits, so it would've taken a lot more than 5 years (and he already played 20 years) to get up to that plateau. When he first started playing for the Indians, he wasn't good enough to stay on the roster (nothing to do with being Black, other Black players were on the roster too and the Indians were stacked at the time) so he bounced down to the Minors before getting a break with a trade to the White Sox. Heck, he's been on the Golden Era Vote ballot multiple times now and he's never been picked, so people have certainly gone over his stats. Real good player. Not a HOF'er.

GannonFan wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:50 am

Gil Dobie wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 7:29 am
Minnie Minoso had a great career. 13 all star games, career .299 hitter. Speed and RBI guy with some power.

Sure, he had a good career, but that doesn't mean it's a HOF career. Nice stats, but nothing that jumps off the table - never had more than 31 steals in a year (and often was just in the teens), and he only averaged 9 HR's a year (max was 24 once). Like I said, he was a good ball player and had a nice career, I just don't see the case for the HOF.

GannonFan wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:17 am

Gil Dobie wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:04 am

He was a rookie at 25, back when it took time to get into the majors if you were black. May have been close to 3000 hits with 5 more good seasons.

But they included his stats from the Negro Leagues going back to when he was 21 - that only brings him up to 2110 hits. Granted, those seasons weren't as long, but he was nowhere near a 3000 hit career even with that taken into consideration. His best year was 184 hits, so it would've taken a lot more than 5 years (and he already played 20 years) to get up to that plateau. When he first started playing for the Indians, he wasn't good enough to stay on the roster (nothing to do with being Black, other Black players were on the roster too and the Indians were stacked at the time) so he bounced down to the Minors before getting a break with a trade to the White Sox. Heck, he's been on the Golden Era Vote ballot multiple times now and he's never been picked, so people have certainly gone over his stats. Real good player. Not a HOF'er.

Gil Dobie wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:21 pm

GannonFan wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:17 am

But they included his stats from the Negro Leagues going back to when he was 21 - that only brings him up to 2110 hits. Granted, those seasons weren't as long, but he was nowhere near a 3000 hit career even with that taken into consideration. His best year was 184 hits, so it would've taken a lot more than 5 years (and he already played 20 years) to get up to that plateau. When he first started playing for the Indians, he wasn't good enough to stay on the roster (nothing to do with being Black, other Black players were on the roster too and the Indians were stacked at the time) so he bounced down to the Minors before getting a break with a trade to the White Sox. Heck, he's been on the Golden Era Vote ballot multiple times now and he's never been picked, so people have certainly gone over his stats. Real good player. Not a HOF'er.

They don't have complete stats for the Negro League yet. Plus other things came into play.

Hall of Famer Orlando Cepeda called him ‘the Jackie Robinson for all Latinos.

“He wasn’t in the starting lineup for Cleveland because they had too many Black players. There was this unofficial quota, period, in baseball that you can’t start more Black players than White players,” explained University of Illinois historian Dr. Adrian Burgos, who served on the Hall of Fame’s 2006 Negro League election committee. “There’s all these practices that limited his opportunities. Yet, when he got the opportunity, he shined.”

From 1951 to 1960, Miñoso made nine All-Star teams, won three gold gloves, and finished top four in MVP voting four times.

“We are talking about a guy who very well might have been the second best player in the American League in the ’50s behind Mickey Mantle,” opined national columnist for The Athletic Joe Posnanski, “He was in that mix. He was that good of a player.”

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:21 pm

GannonFan wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:17 am

But they included his stats from the Negro Leagues going back to when he was 21 - that only brings him up to 2110 hits. Granted, those seasons weren't as long, but he was nowhere near a 3000 hit career even with that taken into consideration. His best year was 184 hits, so it would've taken a lot more than 5 years (and he already played 20 years) to get up to that plateau. When he first started playing for the Indians, he wasn't good enough to stay on the roster (nothing to do with being Black, other Black players were on the roster too and the Indians were stacked at the time) so he bounced down to the Minors before getting a break with a trade to the White Sox. Heck, he's been on the Golden Era Vote ballot multiple times now and he's never been picked, so people have certainly gone over his stats. Real good player. Not a HOF'er.

If he was a Phillie you'd be all over his hall pass.