Championship Subdivision Football | FCS Football | Stadiums | Blogs | Forums

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:08 pm I voted Bonds, Clemens, Helton, Ramirez, Sosa, A-rod and Ortiz.

Winterborn wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:14 am

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:08 pm I voted Bonds, Clemens, Helton, Ramirez, Sosa, A-rod and Ortiz.

My two cents is that anybody that took steroids shouldn't be inducted. Or if so, put an asterisk by their name stating that they were on performance enhancing substances.

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:32 am

Winterborn wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:14 am

My two cents is that anybody that took steroids shouldn't be inducted. Or if so, put an asterisk by their name stating that they were on performance enhancing substances.

might as well eliminate just about everybody who played between 1994-2005 then.

Personally, I look at it as a fairly level playing field....don't really care about steroids.

Gil Dobie wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:51 am

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:32 am

might as well eliminate just about everybody who played between 1994-2005 then.

Personally, I look at it as a fairly level playing field....don't really care about steroids.

There are already suspected PED users in the Hall. It is good to see that the biggest names have to wait longer than normal to be elected. Ortiz might be the first to get a known pass. If I was commissioner, I would act like the NCAA. Look at the obvious years the player was associated to be using steroids and wipe that year from their records. How would I determine that? For example, the years Bonds was tied to Balco, erase those, the year Sosa was found with the cork bat, erase that year. Carry a big MF stick with an eraser on the end. Same with Clemens and what he misremembered; he won't have to remember again.

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:32 am

Winterborn wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:14 am

My two cents is that anybody that took steroids shouldn't be inducted. Or if so, put an asterisk by their name stating that they were on performance enhancing substances.

might as well eliminate just about everybody who played between 1994-2005 then.

Personally, I look at it as a fairly level playing field....don't really care about steroids.

Gil Dobie wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:51 am

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:32 am

might as well eliminate just about everybody who played between 1994-2005 then.

Personally, I look at it as a fairly level playing field....don't really care about steroids.

There are already suspected PED users in the Hall. It is good to see that the biggest names have to wait longer than normal to be elected. Ortiz might be the first to get a known pass. If I was commissioner, I would act like the NCAA. Look at the obvious years the player was associated to be using steroids and wipe that year from their records. How would I determine that? For example, the years Bonds was tied to Balco, erase those, the year Sosa was found with the cork bat, erase that year. Carry a big MF stick with an eraser on the end. Same with Clemens and what he misremembered; he won't have to remember again.

dbackjon wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:28 am

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:32 am

might as well eliminate just about everybody who played between 1994-2005 then.

Personally, I look at it as a fairly level playing field....don't really care about steroids.

Agreed - pitchers and hitters were hitting the juice.

I voted Bonds, Sosa, A-Rod, Visquel, Clemens, Ortiz

Gil Dobie wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:50 am

dbackjon wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:28 am

Agreed - pitchers and hitters were hitting the juice.

I voted Bonds, Sosa, A-Rod, Visquel, Clemens, Ortiz

The roid users overshadow the great players of the era that didn't us steroids. Griffey Jr, Thomas, Schilling, Jeter, Ripken Jr, etc. Schillings big obstacle is his relationship with the media.

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:52 am

Gil Dobie wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:50 am

The roid users overshadow the great players of the era that didn't us steroids. Griffey Jr, Thomas, Schilling, Jeter, Ripken Jr, etc. Schillings big obstacle is his relationship with the media.

Which is why the power should be taken from the media.

And no they don't. Every one of those guys is either in or will be in. How are the "overshadowed"?

Gil Dobie wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:58 am

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:52 am

Which is why the power should be taken from the media.

And no they don't. Every one of those guys is either in or will be in. How are the "overshadowed"?

Who looks like a better player for example, Griffey Jr with 630 home runs, or A-Roid with 696, Bonds 762, Sosa 609. Griffey was better than any of them, but the stats are skewed, and future generations will summarize differently because of the stats. Griffey didn't have the quick recovery that roids offer, to help him recover quickly for the next game.

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:06 am

Gil Dobie wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:58 am

Who looks like a better player for example, Griffey Jr with 630 home runs, or A-Roid with 696, Bonds 762, Sosa 609. Griffey was better than any of them, but the stats are skewed, and future generations will summarize differently because of the stats. Griffey didn't have the quick recovery that roids offer, to help him recover quickly for the next game.

If I were ranking those players as "hitters", I'd go Bonds, Griffey, A-Roid, Sosa....so I'm still not seeing your point. There's more to stats than HR's.

GannonFan wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:59 pm I went with Schilling, Vizquel, and Helton (stayed away from known steroids guys). With the steroids, you had guys like pre-late-90's who used them, and then you had the late 90's and on guys. No one said much about it before then, but once it came up, guys starting to lie about it (I'm not sure Bonds has ever admitted to it). I'm no Andy Pettite fan, but at least when faced with the clear evidence that he cheated, he admitted to cheating. Baseball has this weird problem, almost exclusive to baseball, that they couldn't ever possibly admit to gaining an advantage. It's another of those ridiculous "unspoken" baseball rules. Weird.

As for the HOF guys, let's face it, Schilling would be a sure thing if he hadn't gotten politically opinionated well after leaving the game. The HOF does itself a disservice when it ignores the play on the field and keeps a guy out because of somebody's opinions well after playing and having nothing to do with the sport itself. Vizquel is in the mold of the Ozzie Smith, Luis Apricio type SS's, if they got in, so should he. And Helton gets knocked for playing at altitude, but his OPS+ was great throughout his career so it wasn't all just the home ballpark.

Gil Dobie wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:08 pm

GannonFan wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:59 pm I went with Schilling, Vizquel, and Helton (stayed away from known steroids guys). With the steroids, you had guys like pre-late-90's who used them, and then you had the late 90's and on guys. No one said much about it before then, but once it came up, guys starting to lie about it (I'm not sure Bonds has ever admitted to it). I'm no Andy Pettite fan, but at least when faced with the clear evidence that he cheated, he admitted to cheating. Baseball has this weird problem, almost exclusive to baseball, that they couldn't ever possibly admit to gaining an advantage. It's another of those ridiculous "unspoken" baseball rules. Weird.

As for the HOF guys, let's face it, Schilling would be a sure thing if he hadn't gotten politically opinionated well after leaving the game. The HOF does itself a disservice when it ignores the play on the field and keeps a guy out because of somebody's opinions well after playing and having nothing to do with the sport itself. Vizquel is in the mold of the Ozzie Smith, Luis Apricio type SS's, if they got in, so should he. And Helton gets knocked for playing at altitude, but his OPS+ was great throughout his career so it wasn't all just the home ballpark.

What hurts Vizquel is his alleged exhibiting his erection to a batboy on multiple occasions.

CAA Flagship wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:23 am

Gil Dobie wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:51 am

There are already suspected PED users in the Hall. It is good to see that the biggest names have to wait longer than normal to be elected. Ortiz might be the first to get a known pass. If I was commissioner, I would act like the NCAA. Look at the obvious years the player was associated to be using steroids and wipe that year from their records. How would I determine that? For example, the years Bonds was tied to Balco, erase those, the year Sosa was found with the cork bat, erase that year. Carry a big MF stick with an eraser on the end. Same with Clemens and what he misremembered; he won't have to remember again.

1. I wouldn't vote any of them in until they passed away.
2. Agree with the erasure of certain years. With that, I would vote Bonds and Clemens in because they had a body of work pre-PED use that is worthy enough.
3. No Sosa, ever.
4. I'm not sure about Ortiz. I would have to hear the arguments for and against his admittance.
5. Andy Pettitte, yes.

Gil Dobie wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:50 am

dbackjon wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:28 am

Agreed - pitchers and hitters were hitting the juice.

I voted Bonds, Sosa, A-Rod, Visquel, Clemens, Ortiz

The roid users overshadow the great players of the era that didn't us steroids. Griffey Jr, Thomas, Schilling, Jeter, Ripken Jr, etc. Schillings big obstacle is his relationship with the media.

Gil Dobie wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:33 am

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:06 am

If I were ranking those players as "hitters", I'd go Bonds, Griffey, A-Roid, Sosa....so I'm still not seeing your point. There's more to stats than HR's.

Bonds had over-inflated stats from age 35 on, 317 HR's, inflated average, inflated slugging. I'll take Grifey any day.

GannonFan wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:10 pm

Gil Dobie wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:08 pm

What hurts Vizquel is his alleged exhibiting his erection to a batboy on multiple occasions.

See, I had no idea about that.

dbackjon wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:34 pm

Gil Dobie wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:33 am

Bonds had over-inflated stats from age 35 on, 317 HR's, inflated average, inflated slugging. I'll take Grifey any day.

Bonds was a HOF before he had to change hat sizes

dbackjon wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:33 pm

Gil Dobie wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:50 am

The roid users overshadow the great players of the era that didn't us steroids. Griffey Jr, Thomas, Schilling, Jeter, Ripken Jr, etc. Schillings big obstacle is his relationship with the media.

You sure all of them are 100% clean?