Hilldog's "free college" plan and College Sports

[Pwns]

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/college/

Every student should have the option to graduate from a public college or university in their state without taking on any student debt. By 2021, families with income up to $125,000 will pay no tuition at in-state four-year public colleges and universities. And from the beginning, every student from a family making $85,000 a year or less will be able to go to an in-state four-year public college or university without paying tuition.
All community colleges will offer free tuition.
Everyone will do their part. States will have to step up and invest in higher education, and colleges and universities will be held accountable for the success of their students and for controlling tuition costs.
A $25 billion fund will support historically black colleges and universities, Hispanic-serving institutions, and other minority-serving institutions in building new ladders of opportunity for students. Read Hillary’s agenda to support HBCUs and minority-focused institutions here.
The one-quarter of all college students who are also parents will get the support they need and the resources they deserve. Read more about Hillary’s plan to support student parents here.

The bolded part is key.

Obviously,you're not going to see a plan where the colleges can increase overhead to their heart's content and send the feds the bill.

The federal government will require states to cap or eliminate tuition and let them decide where to cut the costs. And they will cut costs. Even liberal states like California aren't going to be willing to make hefty spending increases that would be needed to make college tuition-free.

Now take a guess what the #1 scapegoat of runaway costs are going to be. It's not going to be the departments of Multicultural Rain Forest Interpretive Dance or Comparative LGBT Literature studies. Sports are going to be on the chopping block no matter what the facts are of the situation.

IMO, this is something that should cause alarm bells to go off for college sports more than anything the NCAA or Power 5 leagues are doing.

[GannonFan]

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/college/

Every student should have the option to graduate from a public college or university in their state without taking on any student debt. By 2021, families with income up to $125,000 will pay no tuition at in-state four-year public colleges and universities. And from the beginning, every student from a family making $85,000 a year or less will be able to go to an in-state four-year public college or university without paying tuition.
All community colleges will offer free tuition.
Everyone will do their part. States will have to step up and invest in higher education, and colleges and universities will be held accountable for the success of their students and for controlling tuition costs.
A $25 billion fund will support historically black colleges and universities, Hispanic-serving institutions, and other minority-serving institutions in building new ladders of opportunity for students. Read Hillary’s agenda to support HBCUs and minority-focused institutions here.
The one-quarter of all college students who are also parents will get the support they need and the resources they deserve. Read more about Hillary’s plan to support student parents here.

The bolded part is key.

Obviously,you're not going to see a plan where the colleges can increase overhead to their heart's content and send the feds the bill.

The federal government will require states to cap or eliminate tuition and let them decide where to cut the costs. And they will cut costs. Even liberal states like California aren't going to be willing to make hefty spending increases that would be needed to make college tuition-free.

Now take a guess what the #1 scapegoat of runaway costs are going to be. It's not going to be the departments of Multicultural Rain Forest Interpretive Dance or Comparative LGBT Literature studies. Sports are going to be on the chopping block no matter what the facts are of the situation.

IMO, this is something that should cause alarm bells to go off for college sports more than anything the NCAA or Power 5 leagues are doing.

Well, I know I'm probably in the minority here, but there are plenty of college sports that simply don't need to exist. The only ones that even have the potential to make money, and it's well documented that even these don't make money at many places, are football and both genders of basketball. There are isolated pockets where other niche sports make money, but things like college golf, tennis, soccer, cross country, softball, and so on make no money and just cost money. The athletes make up a very small percentage of the student population and the vast majority of the student population doesn't even know the sports exist - they just aren't part of the social life of college. And if these sports are removed from college, there would be a good knock-on effect in that parents won't spend obscene amounts of money when kids are young in the misguided idea that chasing the small dollar amounts of scholarship money (especially relative to what they pay for a decade for their kids to play youth sports) is the reason to play youth sports. If this means we cull a lot of the unneeded college sports, then by all means, cut away.

[Pwns]

Well, I know I'm probably in the minority here, but there are plenty of college sports that simply don't need to exist. The only ones that even have the potential to make money, and it's well documented that even these don't make money at many places, are football and both genders of basketball. There are isolated pockets where other niche sports make money, but things like college golf, tennis, soccer, cross country, softball, and so on make no money and just cost money. The athletes make up a very small percentage of the student population and the vast majority of the student population doesn't even know the sports exist - they just aren't part of the social life of college. And if these sports are removed from college, there would be a good knock-on effect in that parents won't spend obscene amounts of money when kids are young in the misguided idea that chasing the small dollar amounts of scholarship money (especially relative to what they pay for a decade for their kids to play youth sports) is the reason to play youth sports. If this means we cull a lot of the unneeded college sports, then by all means, cut away.

If common sense drove decisions the minimum number of sports required to be DI would be reduced and we would exempt revenue sports from Title IX. But the former may not happen because that's the NCAA's domain and the latter won't happen because political correctness is more important than common sense.

It's hard for me to envision a scenario where states get a mandate from the feds to bring out-of-pocket costs down to nothing that wouldn't put revenue sports (especially football) at non-major DI schools in jeopardy. Especially considering a lot of state legislatures and university systems can be dominated by the major power 5 team of that state (if there is one).

[kalm]

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/college/



The bolded part is key.

Obviously,you're not going to see a plan where the colleges can increase overhead to their heart's content and send the feds the bill.

The federal government will require states to cap or eliminate tuition and let them decide where to cut the costs. And they will cut costs. Even liberal states like California aren't going to be willing to make hefty spending increases that would be needed to make college tuition-free.

Now take a guess what the #1 scapegoat of runaway costs are going to be. It's not going to be the departments of Multicultural Rain Forest Interpretive Dance or Comparative LGBT Literature studies. Sports are going to be on the chopping block no matter what the facts are of the situation.

IMO, this is something that should cause alarm bells to go off for college sports more than anything the NCAA or Power 5 leagues are doing.

Well, I know I'm probably in the minority here, but there are plenty of college sports that simply don't need to exist. The only ones that even have the potential to make money, and it's well documented that even these don't make money at many places, are football and both genders of basketball. There are isolated pockets where other niche sports make money, but things like college golf, tennis, soccer, cross country, softball, and so on make no money and just cost money. The athletes make up a very small percentage of the student population and the vast majority of the student population doesn't even know the sports exist - they just aren't part of the social life of college. And if these sports are removed from college, there would be a good knock-on effect in that parents won't spend obscene amounts of money when kids are young in the misguided idea that chasing the small dollar amounts of scholarship money (especially relative to what they pay for a decade for their kids to play youth sports) is the reason to play youth sports. If this means we cull a lot of the unneeded college sports, then by all means, cut away.

Personal bias alert.

There are 8 head golf professionals in the Spokane area alone that played at EWU, another 6 spread throughout the PNW and beyond, and the head of Nicklaus's Global Golf Development company was an also an eagle. And Eastern hasn't had a Mens program since 2000 (yep all of them are men).

A small number compared to the 10's of thousands of other students that have come through the school but still a pretty damn good job of career placement and influence on an industry. If you want to talk small numbers, budgets for at least golf are a pittance compared to a universities overall budget. And many if not most of these guys give back generously to the school and help fund athletics and academics.

Similar to the arts, athletics is one of those things I don't want to be cheap about.

As for Hillary's plan, I'm curious as to how the states are going to come up with the money? I do think free tuition is a worthy investment in infrastructure (the human kind) that pays off in spades down the road. And everybody seems to like infrastructure spending.

[Ibanez]

Well, I know I'm probably in the minority here, but there are plenty of college sports that simply don't need to exist. The only ones that even have the potential to make money, and it's well documented that even these don't make money at many places, are football and both genders of basketball. There are isolated pockets where other niche sports make money, but things like college golf, tennis, soccer, cross country, softball, and so on make no money and just cost money. The athletes make up a very small percentage of the student population and the vast majority of the student population doesn't even know the sports exist - they just aren't part of the social life of college. And if these sports are removed from college, there would be a good knock-on effect in that parents won't spend obscene amounts of money when kids are young in the misguided idea that chasing the small dollar amounts of scholarship money (especially relative to what they pay for a decade for their kids to play youth sports) is the reason to play youth sports. If this means we cull a lot of the unneeded college sports, then by all means, cut away.

Personal bias alert.

There are 8 head golf professionals in the Spokane area alone that played at EWU, another 6 spread throughout the PNW and beyond, and the head of Nicklaus's Global Golf Development company was an also an eagle. And Eastern hasn't had a Mens program since 2000 (yep all of them are men).

A small number compared to the 10's of thousands of other students that have come through the school but still a pretty damn good job of career placement and influence on an industry. If you want to talk small numbers, budgets for at least golf are a pittance compared to a universities overall budget. And many if not most of these guys give back generously to the school and help fund athletics and academics.

Similar to the arts, athletics is one of those things I don't want to be cheap about.

As for Hillary's plan, I'm curious as to how the states are going to come up with the money? I do think free tuition is a worthy investment in infrastructure (the human kind) that pays off in spades down the road. And everybody seems to like infrastructure spending.

I was going to mention that Coastal has a PGA Golf Management degree which is very beneficial to the local market.

PGA students can major in any area (accounting; economics; finance; management; marketing; or hospitality, resort, and tourism management) and receive the PGA designation when they have completed their academic and PGA membership requirements. The PGA membership requirements include passing the PGA's Playing Ability Test (PAT), completing 16 months of full-time internship work and completing all of the PGA's educational courses.

The PGA Golf Management program at Coastal Carolina University prepares students for a successful career in the golf industry by combining academic studies and professional golf-training experiences. The program's curriculum has been carefully developed to offer students the opportunity to simultaneously complete the requirements for a Bachelor of Science degree in business administration, acquire valuable training experiences in the golf industry and complete the PGA of America’s membership requirements.

Enrollment in the program is limited, and it takes 4 1/2 years to complete.

- See more at: http://www.coastal.edu/business/pga/#st ... RoFaz.dpuf

I agree that some sports are just a waste. And in some places, football is a waste of money.

[HI54UNI]

So when she says free "public" college does that mean colleges and universities owned by the state? If so, between that and free community college what happens to private universities? Nobody is going to go to them. Another well thought out Hilldog plan.

Not that it matters because we all know this is nothing more than blatant pandering.

[OL FU]

It's conversations like this that make me glad I went to a private school

[ASUG8]

We can't even afford to fix our bridges and interstates which are vital to the economy. How are we supposed to also fund free school?

Maybe someone should take a step back and try to understand exactly what is underlying the dramatic outpacing of inflation in educational costs?

[kalm]

We can't even afford to fix our bridges and interstates which are vital to the economy. How are we supposed to also fund free school?

Maybe someone should take a step back and try to understand exactly what is underlying the dramatic outpacing of inflation in educational costs?

Some of it comes back with increased productivity and innovation. The GI Bill spawned a generation of educated workers that took us to the moon, developed computers and the internet, etc.

[Baldy]

We can't even afford to fix our bridges and interstates which are vital to the economy. How are we supposed to also fund free school?

Maybe someone should take a step back and try to understand exactly what is underlying the dramatic outpacing of inflation in educational costs?

Some of it comes back with increased productivity and innovation. The GI Bill spawned a generation of educated workers that took us to the moon, developed computers and the internet, etc.

Apples and oranges. The GI Bill was specifically designed and only for soldiers returning back from war.

"Free Education for Every Tom, Dick, Harry, and Jane" just cheapens the value of a college degree. That will only extend the stagnation and keep wages down even more.

[ASUG8]

"Free Education for Every Tom, Dick, Harry, and Jane" just cheapens the value of a college degree. That will only extend the stagnation and keep wages down even more.

Having a bunch of pottery majors flooding the market with lofty salary expectations does no one any good. Undergrad used to be a differentiator, indicating that the individual was willing to put in the time and effort to get more education. With free college and everybody jumping on board what makes a person stand out to a potential employer? Do you then have to get a master's or Phd? I could see scenarios where we have professional students who stay in college until they're 30.

The world will always need plumbers, welders, and electricians which are good-paying, honest jobs. College isn't for everyone.

[kalm]

"Free Education for Every Tom, Dick, Harry, and Jane" just cheapens the value of a college degree. That will only extend the stagnation and keep wages down even more.

Having a bunch of pottery majors flooding the market with lofty salary expectations does no one any good. Undergrad used to be a differentiator, indicating that the individual was willing to put in the time and effort to get more education. With free college and everybody jumping on board what makes a person stand out to a potential employer? Do you then have to get a master's or Phd? I could see scenarios where we have professional students who stay in college until they're 30.

The world will always need plumbers, welders, and electricians which are good-paying, honest jobs. College isn't for everyone.

We provided free college for 8 million people and reaped those rewards. We also still had ditch diggers.

I agree that not everyone should go to college. Not everyone wants to. I've already highlighted my plan as Ed czar here before but one of the ideas vocational training at an earlier age so that an 18 year old can find gainful employment right out of high school if he/she is not academically driven. That's possible right now but we can improve upon it.

Bunch of negative nellies I tells ya!

[ASUG8]

We provided free college for 8 million people and reaped those rewards. We also still had ditch diggers.

I agree that not everyone should go to college. Not everyone wants to. I've already highlighted my plan as Ed czar here before but one of the ideas vocational training at an earlier age so that an 18 year old can find gainful employment right out of high school if he/she is not academically driven. That's possible right now but we can improve upon it.

Bunch of negative nellies I tells ya!

We also asked that those 8 million give something back in return.

Trade/tech schools and community colleges are a great resource for many people and pretty inexpensive compared to a traditional 4 year public education.

[Ibanez]

We can't even afford to fix our bridges and interstates which are vital to the economy. How are we supposed to also fund free school?

Maybe someone should take a step back and try to understand exactly what is underlying the dramatic outpacing of inflation in educational costs?

Some of it comes back with increased productivity and innovation. The GI Bill spawned a generation of educated workers that took us to the moon, developed computers and the internet, etc.

That was for some, not for all. Huge difference. AND it required military service. Is Clinton going to force everyone that want's a free education to spend at least 4 years in the military? I highly doubt it.

[kalm]

Some of it comes back with increased productivity and innovation. The GI Bill spawned a generation of educated workers that took us to the moon, developed computers and the internet, etc.

That was for some, not for all. Huge difference. AND it required military service. Is Clinton going to force everyone that want's a free education to spend at least 4 years in the military? I highly doubt it.

That's another part of the Kalm Plan. Compulsory military or civil service...maybe for all but at least for those who chose to not go to school or vocational training. Carrot and stick.

And we offset some of the cost by adopting CID's pull back from Europe and the ME.

[89Hen]

That was for some, not for all. Huge difference. AND it required military service. Is Clinton going to force everyone that want's a free education to spend at least 4 years in the military? I highly doubt it.

That's another part of the Kalm Plan. Compulsory military or civil service...maybe for all but at least for those who chose to not go to school or vocational training. Carrot and stick.

[kalm]

That's another part of the Kalm Plan. Compulsory military or civil service...maybe for all but at least for those who chose to not go to school or vocational training. Carrot and stick.

A modern day CCC would be cool as hell and carry great benefits.

I'm sorry you lack vision.

[Grizalltheway]

That's another part of the Kalm Plan. Compulsory military or civil service...maybe for all but at least for those who chose to not go to school or vocational training. Carrot and stick.

Maybe it's not realistic, but do you think it's an inherently bad idea?

[Pwns]

Maybe it's not realistic, but do you think it's an inherently bad idea?

I do think the idea it will improve foreign policy because 1-percenters and congresscritters' kids and grandkids might have to go to war is really naive. Not sure if that's what appeals to kalm about it but that's typically a reason why any liberal or proggy wants a draft of some kind of compulsory service.

[SDHornet]

A modern day CCC would be cool as hell and carry great benefits.

I'm sorry you lack vision.

This. If anything it forces people to get off their lazy ass for a few months of their life.

[GrizFanStuckInUtah]

[kalm]

Maybe it's not realistic, but do you think it's an inherently bad idea?

I do think the idea it will improve foreign policy because 1-percenters and congresscritters' kids and grandkids might have to go to war is really naive. Not sure if that's what appeals to kalm about it but that's typically a reason why any liberal or proggy wants a draft of some kind of compulsory service.

Actually that part of it never crossed my mind but it's another good reason.

Stereotype fail.

[YoUDeeMan]

Scholarships at public universities won't be needed. 85 scholarships now goes to unlimited numbers of players playing without paying...so how will the private schools compete in varsity sports?

On top of athletics...there is also one other big pot of money that can be cut. Public universities have large payrolls...so you can bet that there will be increased pressure to bring down those salaries.

UD (semi-private) professors around here are being asked to go without raises as the school tries to control costs (uh, right after they increased tuition ). Funny to see Liberal professors whine about not getting raises...especially the economics professors. Whoops...unlimited funding isn't so unlimited.

The trickle down to the private universities will be fun to watch.



Oh, and didn't Clinton say that Bernie's free education plan wasn't affordable?

[CAA Flagship]

Oh, and didn't Clinton say that Bernie's free education plan wasn't affordable?

For whites.

[89Hen]

A modern day CCC would be cool as hell and carry great benefits.

I'm sorry you lack vision.

This. If anything it forces people to get off their lazy ass for a few months of their life.

I never had you guys pegged as racists, but hey, to each his own I guess.