How will Donald Trump change politics and the presidency?

[kalm]

When a manager makes 150K and gets 2% of his projects' profits, and instead of paying that extra $5000 an employee could really do with, he pockets the savings. This hurts America.

Trip, that guy was likely in your position at one time and paid his dues. He worked his way up and was able to negotiate that sort of compensation. Maybe he worked in your position at your age while raising a family, earning his license, and working on his Masters at the same time. Maybe he sacrificed a lot more than you are doing now and this is his reward. Maybe, maybe not. But I know a lot of people that worked their asses off at your age and are now finally reaping the rewards.

America's wealth comes from the efforts of people striving for success. Take away their incentive with badmouthing success and you take away the wealth that helps us take care of the needy.
- Thomas Peterffy

Badmouthing success takes away wealth?

That might be the dumbest quote I’ve ever read!

Talk about entitlement and snowflakes.

[∞∞∞]

America's wealth primarily comes from an abundance of natural resources, being the only unscathed industrial nation after WWII, and having previously competent governments managing its finances.

People like to think it comes from working hard, but that's only true in a vacuum if everyone starts at the same place. There are plenty of Americans, past and present, that have striven for success their entire lives, worked like beasts of burden, and ended up living like paupers. Obviously working hard will give you an edge, but let's not pretend it's some magic key to success.

And "paid his dues" is a complete affront to how capitalism works. But since it doesn't actually work, we're left with people who have positions of power due to time and an entitlement mentality instead of merit and skills. Actually, maybe capitalism is working exactly as intended.

[kalm]

America's wealth primarily comes from an abundance of natural resources, being the only unscathed industrial nation after WWII, and having previously competent governments managing its finances.

People like to think it comes from working hard, but that's only true in a vacuum if everyone starts at the same place. There are plenty of Americans, past and present, that have striven for success their entire lives, worked like beasts of burden, and ended up living like paupers. Obviously working hard will give you an edge, but let's not pretend it's some magic key to success.

And "paid his dues" is a complete affront to how capitalism works. But since it doesn't actually work, we're left with people who have positions of power due to time and an entitlement mentality instead of merit and skills. Actually, maybe capitalism is working exactly as intended.

Killing it.

[UNI88]

America's wealth primarily comes from an abundance of natural resources, being the only unscathed industrial nation after WWII, and having previously competent governments managing its finances.

People like to think it comes from working hard, but that's only true in a vacuum if everyone starts at the same place. There are plenty of Americans, past and present, that have striven for success their entire lives, worked like beasts of burden, and ended up living like paupers. Obviously working hard will give you an edge, but let's not pretend it's some magic key to success.

And "paid his dues" is a complete affront to how capitalism works. But since it doesn't actually work, we're left with people who have positions of power due to time and an entitlement mentality instead of merit and skills. Actually, maybe capitalism is working exactly as intended.

This perspective is short on historical understanding. An abundance of natural resources is an asset but not the only one and not the primary one. If it were, China would have already overtaken the US and Japan never would have been a force prior to WWII and again afterward. I grew up in the 70's & 80's and if I remember correctly, the US was fearful that Japan was going to overtake it as the world's dominant economic power. The Japanese had taken many of the things that we used to dominate (cars, electronics, etc.) and used improved manufacturing and incremental improvements to take over markets. Things looked a little bleak but we turned the tables not with abundance of resources but with creativity and innovation (Microsoft, Apple, etc.) and suddenly the Japanese were struggling to keep up with us. We are where we are today not because of resources but because of good old American ingenuity and a lot of hard work.

I'm all for equal opportunities and that means that everyone has access to a quality education whether they live in public housing in Chicago or a trailer park in Oklahoma. What they do with that education is up to them and their parents. The hard work starts when a child is a toddler and continues throughout their life. That's how they get the greatest opportunity to succeed. And let's be clear, it's an opportunity not a guarantee. Sh!t happens and things go wrong. It isn't society or the government's job to make sure everyone ends up in the same place. Equal outcomes reduces the incentives to be a creative disrupter who takes a chance and creates new things. IMO those innovations have done more to improve the lives of the poor in this country then well-meaning government programs.

I also agree that "paid his dues" is the wrong way to say what Flaggy was trying to say. Getting more because you've paid your dues, put in your time and are thus entitled is the union approach (aren't you pro-union?). I think Flaggy probably meant that he earned the opportunity with his results and was able to leverage that and negotiate his (or her compensation).

[Chizzang]

Trip, that guy was likely in your position at one time and paid his dues. He worked his way up and was able to negotiate that sort of compensation. Maybe he worked in your position at your age while raising a family, earning his license, and working on his Masters at the same time. Maybe he sacrificed a lot more than you are doing now and this is his reward. Maybe, maybe not. But I know a lot of people that worked their asses off at your age and are now finally reaping the rewards.

America's wealth comes from the efforts of people striving for success. Take away their incentive with badmouthing success and you take away the wealth that helps us take care of the needy.
- Thomas Peterffy

Badmouthing success takes away wealth?

That might be the dumbest quote I’ve ever read!

Talk about entitlement and snowflakes.

Can I use that as my tag line..?
"Badmouthing Success takes away Wealth"

Donald Trump couldn't have dreamed up a better slogan himself
Flaggy better copyright ™ © that sucker or Donald will steal it

It'll be on T-shirts in two weeks...

[AZGrizFan]

If you haven't received an economic benefit personally since Trump defeated Hillary or haven't seen it around you, I just feel bad for you, you're blind or you just are like the fake news who don't want to give him credit for anything.

My 401(k) has been on overdrive and more people are working and more people are making more money. It's not just the 1%ers - blacks & Hispanic communities are also seeing the growth.

It must be nice to live in the bubble. Most Americans are minimally in the stock market, especially people my age because we're paid less than past generations, have more student loans, can't afford our own homes, and barely have enough at the end of each month to save up for retirement.

But hey, at least your 401K is doing well. Glad you had all those awesome economic opportunities growing up, and nice of you to pull the ladder up behind you. Companies took away pension plans, unions became demonized, inflation outgrew wages and educational costs (the latter by a significant percent), homes stopped being homes and became investment opportunities, and America borrowed against our future.

But again, congrats on your 401K.

You are one bitter little fuck.

[AZGrizFan]

Nothing socialist about making the playing field equal. What's done on the field is up to the players.

The playing field is already equal. If you’re born with a brain, two arms and two legs then the field is equal. What;s done on the field IS up to the players. And likely you’re in the (shitty, I guess) position you’re in because of choices YOU made in YOUR life. Quit blaming America and society and capitalism. You sound like a whiny little fuck.

[AZGrizFan]

You're really not getting it. Your generation's political policies, they way you've voted the last 30 years, the way you've bought properties and increased prices, the way you increased educational costs, the way you've outsourced jobs, the way you've paid people less as you grew into positions of power, the way you've given out less benefits, the way you've borrowed to secure financial security in your twilight years...it's added up. Millennials actually work a little more than Gen X (and way more than Boomers)...to make ends meat.

It's not China, Europe, Mexico or Canada fucking America over. It's Americans fucking over Americans.

Enjoy it while it lasts though. When you have tens of millions of people which have grievances, maybe you should look at why that is instead of simply labeling them lazy.

To the original question, Trump's legacy is this: exposing the toxicity of conservative polices.

There's a bunch of truth here. Since we're applying brush strokes, the Boomers and Gen X'ers are greedy, irresponsible generations. I know a ton of millenials and late Gen X'ers who live humbly and work their asses off.

The other disconnect is that when it comes to things like college tuition and healthcare costs, it's not as though the exorbitant fees go nowhere. To use Dylan Ratigan's term, they're "extractionary", serving very little advancement to the masses while transferring wealth and control of resources upward.

Crony capitalism is just as bad as socialism.

Guess what? When I was the age of current boomers and x-gener’s, I LIVED HUMBLY AND WORKED MY ASS OFF! In fact, I worked TWO jobs (and went to grad school at night) for several years so I could improve my lot in life. I gave 22 years of my life to the United States Navy so I could improve my lot in life.

These motherfuckers who want to start life on third base because that’s where their parents are really piss me off. Trip, I’m looking directly at YOU.

[AZGrizFan]

God damn. I should have NEVER opened this thread.

[SDHornet]

I love how trip gets a huge does of Democracy Now and then comes on here and spews craps like he does only to get completely shat on.

Trip you have a STEM degree, you should be crushing it. But hey, if you wanna spend all your dough on experiences and not save for retirement, that's fine just don't come back expecting folks to cover your ass for retirement.

[AZGrizFan]

When a manager makes 150K and gets 2% of his projects' profits, and instead of paying that extra $5000 an employee could really do with, he pockets the savings. This hurts America.

Trip, serious question: How much of your salary have you shared with those below you on the company food chain? Since you seem to think this is such a great idea, I assume you’ve already put it into practice?

How about free ride-shares for coworkers?
Or giving away free rent space in your condo?

Or are you still too focused on correcting the email siggy horror to enact this brilliance?

[Chizzang]

Nothing socialist about making the playing field equal. What's done on the field is up to the players.

The playing field is already equal. If you’re born with a brain, two arms and two legs then the field is equal. What;s done on the field IS up to the players. And likely you’re in the (shitty, I guess) position you’re in because of choices YOU made in YOUR life. Quit blaming America and society and capitalism. You sound like a whiny little fuck.

Bullshit... ^ it's rigged

I don't particularly care because I have benefited greatly from the "system" such as it is
but it is not a level playing field and the idea (conciet) that such a thing should even exist is ridiculous

Humans are flawed brutal creatures
brimming with contrivances prejudices and bias
There is no such thing as "a level playing field"

This is why guys like Paul Manafort can commit $20 Million in bank fraud
and if it wasn't for a special council he'd have gotten away with it...
Thousands of dudes just like him that are presently NOT under investigation
are killin' it and robbing the system blind

1) There's no such thing as a level playing field
2) If you're stupid enough to think there should be one - by default - you lose
3) People defending the absurdity of a level playing field is only because that want to believe it

Life's Rules:
1) Take full advantage of your opportunities - frequently they come disguised as hard work
2) As screwed up as things might seem - it's as good as it's gonna get - keep moving forward
3) Pay no attention to what other people have (fancy possessions) you don't need any of that sh!t
4) Find the loopholes skirt the edges play the game and understand high risk... then bet on yourself

[∞∞∞]

I love how trip gets a huge does of Democracy Now and then comes on here and spews craps like he does only to get completely shat on.

Trip you have a STEM degree, you should be crushing it. But hey, if you wanna spend all your dough on experiences and not save for retirement, that's fine just don't come back expecting folks to cover your ass for retirement.

I don't read Democracy Now. And I'm doing fine (for now); I live below my means, have a side gig, save a decent chunk for retirement, have disposable income to donate, and live a generally content life.

But let's not pretend there's a fair playing field - I certainly have more advantages than others, but less than others as well. There's a reason the distribution of wealth in this nation is the worst since the Gilded age (even more so among races).

And I laugh at AZ. Besides corporations, the military is the biggest welfare queen around. And what's worse is the old-boys network of ex-military members who've been sucking the government dry in the veil of "consulting." Instead of it being a force of public good, it's become another example of Americans gaming the system because they can. I'd love for Congress, journalists, and the President to seriously investigate the military-industrial complex; there's too many ex-members in our government who wink and nod with their buddies in the "consulting" world. In reality, we call that corruption.

On the flip-side, the military is a good example of how universal healthcare can work.

[CID1990]

The playing field is already equal. If you’re born with a brain, two arms and two legs then the field is equal. What;s done on the field IS up to the players. And likely you’re in the (shitty, I guess) position you’re in because of choices YOU made in YOUR life. Quit blaming America and society and capitalism. You sound like a whiny little ****.

Bullshit... ^ it's rigged

I don't particularly care because I have benefited greatly from the "system" such as it is
but it is not a level playing field and the idea (conciet) that such a thing should even exist is ridiculous

Humans are flawed brutal creatures
brimming with contrivances prejudices and bias
There is no such thing as "a level playing field"

This is why guys like Paul Manafort can commit $20 Million in bank fraud
and if it wasn't for a special council he'd have gotten away with it...
Thousands of dudes just like him that are presently NOT under investigation
are killin' it and robbing the system blind

1) There's no such thing as a level playing field
2) If you're stupid enough to think there should be one - by default - you lose
3) People defending the absurdity of a level playing field is only because that want to believe it

Life's Rules:
1) Take full advantage of your opportunities - frequently they come disguised as hard work
2) As screwed up as things might seem - it's as good as it's gonna get - keep moving forward
3) Pay no attention to what other people have (fancy possessions) you don't need any of that sh!t
4) Find the loopholes skirt the edges play the game and understand high risk... then bet on yourself

In short,

We have the most human system possible

Change it radically at peril of your life

In order to make humans all look after each other and hold hands in altruistic bliss you must lock about 70% of them away and re-educate them

And then if they don’t rise up and kill you, you might get a good 50 year run until your economy collapses

[kalm]

It must be nice to live in the bubble. Most Americans are minimally in the stock market, especially people my age because we're paid less than past generations, have more student loans, can't afford our own homes, and barely have enough at the end of each month to save up for retirement.

But hey, at least your 401K is doing well. Glad you had all those awesome economic opportunities growing up, and nice of you to pull the ladder up behind you. Companies took away pension plans, unions became demonized, inflation outgrew wages and educational costs (the latter by a significant percent), homes stopped being homes and became investment opportunities, and America borrowed against our future.

But again, congrats on your 401K.

You are one bitter little fuck.

Trip, you can throw all the little ones back. This guy is a trophy! !

[∞∞∞]

This is why guys like Paul Manafort can commit $20 Million in bank fraud
and if it wasn't for a special council he'd have gotten away with it...
Thousands of dudes just like him that are presently NOT under investigation
are killin' it and robbing the system blind

This point can't be overstated.

What bothers me is the justice system for white collar crime...if they get caught/prosecuted. And even if they get caught, they pay tens of millions for stealing hundreds of million, serve little to no time, and have no legal impediments put on them. If you're a 20-something who gets caught stealing or in possession of drugs, you get arrested, fined to the point of poverty unless you can't even afford that, and then go to prison for years. And then in prison, we focus more on punishment than reform. Then when you get out, you have no skills and even if you do, only a few places hire ex-cons. Now your life is completely messed up to the point where your options are limited to low-paid positions or worse, criminal activity.

It's insanity that a crime totaling less than a few hundred dollars can end you, yet white-collar crimes of billions cost relatively nothing. It may as well be considered a tax for doing crime.

Now I don't mean to make excuses for bad behavior, but I can at least empathize with the traps low-level criminals might find themselves in. I read comments like, "Good riddance, another worthless criminal off the street!", but that person could shoplift an entire Best Buy and it's not a drop in the bucket compared to the dollar amount white collar criminals are getting away with. And every time the law catches up with ordinary citizens, it throws them further down a hole they'll never climb out of. But not only that, this injustice also creates a particularly uneven generational transfer of wealth which hurts nations in the long-term.

[kalm]

This is why guys like Paul Manafort can commit $20 Million in bank fraud
and if it wasn't for a special council he'd have gotten away with it...
Thousands of dudes just like him that are presently NOT under investigation
are killin' it and robbing the system blind

This point can't be overstated.

What bothers me is the justice system for white collar crime...if they get caught/prosecuted. And even if they get caught, they pay tens of millions for stealing hundreds of million, serve little to no time, and have no legal impediments put on them. If you're a 20-something who gets caught stealing or in possession of drugs, you get arrested, fined to the point of poverty unless you can't even afford that, and then go to prison for years. And then in prison, we focus more on punishment than reform. Then when you get out, you have no skills and even if you only a few places hire ex-cons. Now your life is completely messed up to the point where your options are limited to low-paid positions or worse, criminal activity.

It's insanity that a crime totaling less than a few hundred dollars can end you, yet white-collar crimes of billions cost relatively nothing. It may as well be considered a tax for doing crime.

Now I don't mean to make excuses for bad behavior, but I can at least empathize with the traps low-level criminals might find themselves in. I read story comments, "Good riddance, another worthless criminal off the street!", but that person could shoplift an entire Best Buy and it's not a drop in the bucket compared to the dollar amount white collar criminals are getting away with. And every time the law catches up with ordinary citizens, it throws them further down a hole they'll never climb out of.

Yep

White collar crimes are often harder to prosecute too. Ambiguous laws, high priced attorneys, etc. Street crime is the low hanging fruit. You can pad conviction rates and reward the prison industrial complex with billable clients.

As for the big financial thefts , fines are just a cost of doing business for the corporation.

[kalm]

Gannon is a centrist like Ron Paul is a libertarian.

Someone like Ibanez, or even 93, are closer to centrists than Gannon.

I would say that all 3 are centrists.

Gannon is solidly to the right on economics. He's further right than you are in the category.

[bluehenbillk]

This is why guys like Paul Manafort can commit $20 Million in bank fraud
and if it wasn't for a special council he'd have gotten away with it...
Thousands of dudes just like him that are presently NOT under investigation
are killin' it and robbing the system blind

This point can't be overstated.

What bothers me is the justice system for white collar crime...if they get caught/prosecuted. And even if they get caught, they pay tens of millions for stealing hundreds of million, serve little to no time, and have no legal impediments put on them. If you're a 20-something who gets caught stealing or in possession of drugs, you get arrested, fined to the point of poverty unless you can't even afford that, and then go to prison for years. And then in prison, we focus more on punishment than reform. Then when you get out, you have no skills and even if you do, only a few places hire ex-cons. Now your life is completely messed up to the point where your options are limited to low-paid positions or worse, criminal activity.

It's insanity that a crime totaling less than a few hundred dollars can end you, yet white-collar crimes of billions cost relatively nothing. It may as well be considered a tax for doing crime.

Now I don't mean to make excuses for bad behavior, but I can at least empathize with the traps low-level criminals might find themselves in. I read comments like, "Good riddance, another worthless criminal off the street!", but that person could shoplift an entire Best Buy and it's not a drop in the bucket compared to the dollar amount white collar criminals are getting away with. And every time the law catches up with ordinary citizens, it throws them further down a hole they'll never climb out of. But not only that, this injustice also creates a particularly uneven generational transfer of wealth which hurts nations in the long-term.

Haha tell this to Mychal Kendricks, formerly of the Cleveland Browns....

[Pwns]

You must be one who college did not benefit, from the lack of intellect of your posts your career path should probably be manual labor.

Not every one needs college,there are very good trade schools, online schools that do not cost as much as the Universities.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I treasured my years at North Central Georgia State College. It opened my mind to new ways of thinking and taught me to appreciate my white male cishet privilege. Maybe if more people had a traditional, liberal education there'd be fewer hateful, bigoted Trump voters like yourself. But in Amerikkka I guess it's just more important to have tax cuts for the rich than have en enlightened citizenry.

[GannonFan]

I would say that all 3 are centrists.

Gannon is solidly to the right on economics. He's further right than you are in the category.

I'm certainly to the right on economics, but not anywhere close to the libertarian extreme right. And on most social issues, I'm decidedly to the left. Tell me again how I'm not a centrist overall.

[CID1990]

Gannon is solidly to the right on economics. He's further right than you are in the category.

I'm certainly to the right on economics, but not anywhere close to the libertarian extreme right. And on most social issues, I'm decidedly to the left. Tell me again how I'm not a centrist overall.

Give it up dude

I get called a Nazi by the left and a snowflake by the right

I dont try to justify or explain myself anymore and frankly it is quite liberating:



Try it and thank me later

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GannonFan]

America's wealth primarily comes from an abundance of natural resources, being the only unscathed industrial nation after WWII, and having previously competent governments managing its finances.

People like to think it comes from working hard, but that's only true in a vacuum if everyone starts at the same place. There are plenty of Americans, past and present, that have striven for success their entire lives, worked like beasts of burden, and ended up living like paupers. Obviously working hard will give you an edge, but let's not pretend it's some magic key to success.

And "paid his dues" is a complete affront to how capitalism works. But since it doesn't actually work, we're left with people who have positions of power due to time and an entitlement mentality instead of merit and skills. Actually, maybe capitalism is working exactly as intended.

Killing it.

So the kid shows of his profound lack of historical understanding (can't blame him, obviously schools are failing us when it comes to historical understanding) and kalmie comes in for an atta boy. It's the equivalent of Trip going the wrong way in a basketball game, making a layup on his own basket, and then kalmie running off the bench to pick it up and slam it home in the same wrong basket. Awesome.

America's wealth does not come from primarily natural resources (unless you mean people and basically people only) and from being the only unscathed industrial nation after WWII. That's just patently false. I'll give you an okay on the last one, the previously competent governments, although it was never about how those governments managed their finances, that misses the forest for the tree. It was that our governments have been, are, and will continue to be (Trump hysteria on either side of the aisle withstanding) stable governments. The finances are just a small bit of that.

The historical part is the laughable part here - WWII didn't give us wealth. It just sped up the process slightly of what was already happening for a century before then. Even if WWII never happened, America would still have been an economic giant and the leader of the industrialized world. England had been ceding overseas territories for decades in the lead-up to WWII, Europe had already begun its slow economic retreat that we still them in the midst of today and will see for decades to come. America was bigger, more populous, more free, and more open to change up and down the economy compared to the old world, and it's what still makes America a better place to do business today than anywhere else in the world. I tease kalmie about the innovation thing, but innovation, in all of it's forms, is what really drives American wealth. The creativity, the productivity, and the development of new technologies and new markets for those technologies is what sets America apart even today, and will be, if we continue to foster and deliver in those areas, for some time to come.

[GannonFan]

I'm certainly to the right on economics, but not anywhere close to the libertarian extreme right. And on most social issues, I'm decidedly to the left. Tell me again how I'm not a centrist overall.

Give it up dude

I get called a Nazi by the left and a snowflake by the right

I dont try to justify or explain myself anymore and frankly it is quite liberating:



Try it and thank me later

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Heck, I would've voted for Bernie over Trump if the Dems hadn't rigged their own primary. As it is I voted for Jill Stein and I get labeled as "solidly right" as a result. Who knew?!?

[93henfan]

God damn. I should have NEVER opened this thread.

C'mon man. You know all of your success is due to your white privilege and nothing else. Accept it. Sexual deviant Louis CK even made a skit about it, so you know it's true!

Spoiler: show

Btw, different bit, but this is some of the funniest shit I've ever seen.

phpBB [video]