Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Political discussions
User avatar
JohnStOnge
Egalitarian
Egalitarian
Posts: 20313
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:47 pm
I am a fan of: McNeese State
A.K.A.: JohnStOnge

Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by JohnStOnge »

CID1990 wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
Not the same thing. The Mueller report found numerous interactions with the Russians including that thing where the campaign director shared internal polling data. It's not a "there was nothing" scenario.

There are indeed situation in which one can say "nothing at all was found to indicate." This is not one of them.
Precisely the same thing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
No, it's not. And you really know that.
Well, I believe that I must tell the truth
And say things as they really are
But if I told the truth and nothing but the truth
Could I ever be a star?

Deep Purple: No One Came
Image
User avatar
CID1990
Level5
Level5
Posts: 25460
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:40 am
I am a fan of: Pie
A.K.A.: CID 1990
Location: กรุงเทพมหานคร

Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by CID1990 »

JohnStOnge wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
Precisely the same thing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
No, it's not. And you really know that.
I know that you shilly-shallied about Hillary Clinton’s security violations ... running the gamut between incompetence to ignorance, and now you do an about face - I know that for sure

You have zero credibility on this topic


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
"You however, are an insufferable ankle biting mental chihuahua..." - Clizzoris
User avatar
UNI88
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 19955
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:30 am
I am a fan of: UNI
Location: the foggy, woggy banks Of the Limpopo River

Re: RE: Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by UNI88 »

CID1990 wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
No, it's not. And you really know that.
I know that you shilly-shallied about Hillary Clinton’s security violations ... running the gamut between incompetence to ignorance, and now you do an about face - I know that for sure

You have zero credibility on this topic


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Confirmation bias ...

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
User avatar
GannonFan
Level5
Level5
Posts: 18038
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:51 am
I am a fan of: Delaware
A.K.A.: Non-Partisan Hack

Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by GannonFan »

JohnStOnge wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
Precisely the same thing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
No, it's not. And you really know that.
Well, JSO's doing his best to be as discredited as Jelly has been - it's like he wants to be as wrong as possible and is frustrated that Jelly has that title right now.
Proud Member of the Blue Hen Nation
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 59305
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by kalm »

GannonFan wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
No, it's not. And you really know that.
Well, JSO's doing his best to be as discredited as Jelly has been - it's like he wants to be as wrong as possible and is frustrated that Jelly has that title right now.
So there's as much evidence of CID kidnapping the Lindbergh kid as Trump colluding/conspiring/interacting/plotting with the Russians?

:?

Lord of the Flies in defending Trump...the cs version.
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
ALPHAGRIZ1
Level5
Level5
Posts: 16077
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:26 am
I am a fan of: 1995 Montana Griz
A.K.A.: Fuck Off
Location: America: and having my rights violated on a daily basis

Re: RE: Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by ALPHAGRIZ1 »

SDHornet wrote:JSO still stuck on retard I see. :coffee:

Spoiler: show
I actually didn't read his post, but if anyone does can you let me know if my above post is accurate? Thanks in advance.
Hes in a hottub of stupid just relaxing and soaking it up.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
Image

ALPHAGRIZ1 - Now available in internet black

The flat earth society has members all around the globe
User avatar
GannonFan
Level5
Level5
Posts: 18038
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:51 am
I am a fan of: Delaware
A.K.A.: Non-Partisan Hack

Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by GannonFan »

kalm wrote:
GannonFan wrote:
Well, JSO's doing his best to be as discredited as Jelly has been - it's like he wants to be as wrong as possible and is frustrated that Jelly has that title right now.
So there's as much evidence of CID kidnapping the Lindbergh kid as Trump colluding/conspiring/interacting/plotting with the Russians?

:?

Lord of the Flies in defending Trump...the cs version.
Holy widening the argument Batman. Interacting with is not in the same scope at all with the other verbs. :ohno:
Proud Member of the Blue Hen Nation
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 59305
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by kalm »

GannonFan wrote:
kalm wrote:
So there's as much evidence of CID kidnapping the Lindbergh kid as Trump colluding/conspiring/interacting/plotting with the Russians?

:?

Lord of the Flies in defending Trump...the cs version.
Holy widening the argument Batman. Interacting with is not in the same scope at all with the other verbs. :ohno:
I was being sarcastic. If I just said "collusion" I would have been reminded for 100th time that collusion is not a legal definition.

:lol:
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
CID1990
Level5
Level5
Posts: 25460
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:40 am
I am a fan of: Pie
A.K.A.: CID 1990
Location: กรุงเทพมหานคร

Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by CID1990 »

kalm wrote:
GannonFan wrote:
Well, JSO's doing his best to be as discredited as Jelly has been - it's like he wants to be as wrong as possible and is frustrated that Jelly has that title right now.
So there's as much evidence of CID kidnapping the Lindbergh kid as Trump colluding/conspiring/interacting/plotting with the Russians?

:?

Lord of the Flies in defending Trump...the cs version.
Yes - there is the same amount of actual evidence of a conspiracy with Russians as there is evidence of me kidnapping the Lindbergh baby. I don’t think I stuttered

I know some of you (most notably Jelly and JSO) have fanciful and highly customized views on what constitutes evidence of a crime, but there was no evidence of a crime in the non-make believe world that most of us inhabit
"You however, are an insufferable ankle biting mental chihuahua..." - Clizzoris
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 59305
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by kalm »

CID1990 wrote:
kalm wrote:
So there's as much evidence of CID kidnapping the Lindbergh kid as Trump colluding/conspiring/interacting/plotting with the Russians?

:?

Lord of the Flies in defending Trump...the cs version.
Yes - there is the same amount of actual evidence of a conspiracy with Russians as there is evidence of me kidnapping the Lindbergh baby. I don’t think I stuttered

I know some of you (most notably Jelly and JSO) have fanciful and highly customized views on what constitutes evidence of a crime, but there was no evidence of a crime in the non-make believe world that most of us inhabit
You’re right. I should have said suspicion instead of evidence.

The justice department policy of not indicting a sitting president doesn’t mean crimes weren’t committed. Similar to financial crimes and the 2008 crash. Since no one was convicted there must not have been fraud?

It’s a disappointing part of our system where enough wealth and power keeps you out of jail (unless you steal from rich guys like Madoff). Anyone who used the “if I had done what Hillary had done” argument should get this.

Not to mention the tremendous fight to obstruct...whoops....I mean keep financial records secret and administration officials from testifying.

He’s the most guilty acting, innocent person in the history of things.
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
css75
Level3
Level3
Posts: 2515
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:45 pm

Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by css75 »

kalm wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
Yes - there is the same amount of actual evidence of a conspiracy with Russians as there is evidence of me kidnapping the Lindbergh baby. I don’t think I stuttered

I know some of you (most notably Jelly and JSO) have fanciful and highly customized views on what constitutes evidence of a crime, but there was no evidence of a crime in the non-make believe world that most of us inhabit
You’re right. I should have said suspicion instead of evidence.

The justice department policy of not indicting a sitting president doesn’t mean crimes weren’t committed. Similar to financial crimes and the 2008 crash. Since no one was convicted there must not have been fraud?

It’s a disappointing part of our system where enough wealth and power keeps you out of jail (unless you steal from rich guys like Madoff). Anyone who used the “if I had done what Hillary had done” argument should get this.

Not to mention the tremendous fight to obstruct...whoops....I mean keep financial records secret and administration officials from testifying.

He’s the most guilty acting, innocent person in the history of things.
Most of the stuff Nadler and his gang of thugs wants, Trump already supplied to Mueller, enough is enough. If those 19 rabid libs couldn’t find anything that should be it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
User avatar
JohnStOnge
Egalitarian
Egalitarian
Posts: 20313
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:47 pm
I am a fan of: McNeese State
A.K.A.: JohnStOnge

Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by JohnStOnge »

css75 wrote:
kalm wrote:
You’re right. I should have said suspicion instead of evidence.

The justice department policy of not indicting a sitting president doesn’t mean crimes weren’t committed. Similar to financial crimes and the 2008 crash. Since no one was convicted there must not have been fraud?

It’s a disappointing part of our system where enough wealth and power keeps you out of jail (unless you steal from rich guys like Madoff). Anyone who used the “if I had done what Hillary had done” argument should get this.

Not to mention the tremendous fight to obstruct...whoops....I mean keep financial records secret and administration officials from testifying.

He’s the most guilty acting, innocent person in the history of things.
Most of the stuff Nadler and his gang of thugs wants, Trump already supplied to Mueller, enough is enough. If those 19 rabid libs couldn’t find anything that should be it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Mueller found evidence of obstruction of justice. That is very clear. Then Mueller did not make a call as to whether it was sufficient. Then Trump's appointee said that he didn't consider it sufficient. But it's not his call really. Not under our Constitution. Under our Constitution it's Congress' call.

This idea that the investigators "couldn't find anything" is nonsense. They did find things.

Now, I realize that the Democrats are probably in a hopeless position because the Republicans in the Senate have decided to throw integrity to the wind and support Trump no matter what. But the idea that Congress should not investigate/consider this matter is absurd.
Well, I believe that I must tell the truth
And say things as they really are
But if I told the truth and nothing but the truth
Could I ever be a star?

Deep Purple: No One Came
Image
User avatar
SeattleGriz
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 16534
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:41 am
I am a fan of: Montana
A.K.A.: PhxGriz

Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by SeattleGriz »

He is trying to goad Pelosi to impeach. Instant election victory.
Everything is better with SeattleGriz
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 59305
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by kalm »

SeattleGriz wrote:He is trying to goad Pelosi to impeach. Instant election victory.
Establishment Dems like Pelosi were opposed until Amash outflanked them. :nod:
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
CID1990
Level5
Level5
Posts: 25460
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:40 am
I am a fan of: Pie
A.K.A.: CID 1990
Location: กรุงเทพมหานคร

Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by CID1990 »

JohnStOnge wrote:
css75 wrote:
Most of the stuff Nadler and his gang of thugs wants, Trump already supplied to Mueller, enough is enough. If those 19 rabid libs couldn’t find anything that should be it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Mueller found evidence of obstruction of justice. That is very clear. Then Mueller did not make a call as to whether it was sufficient. Then Trump's appointee said that he didn't consider it sufficient. But it's not his call really. Not under our Constitution. Under our Constitution it's Congress' call.

This idea that the investigators "couldn't find anything" is nonsense. They did find things.

Now, I realize that the Democrats are probably in a hopeless position because the Republicans in the Senate have decided to throw integrity to the wind and support Trump no matter what. But the idea that Congress should not investigate/consider this matter is absurd.
John

Go take your meds, have a seat, and prepare to have your mind blown-

Nobody here is saying there isn’t evidence of obstruction of justice - there is - (depending on who you ask of course)




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
"You however, are an insufferable ankle biting mental chihuahua..." - Clizzoris
User avatar
SeattleGriz
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 16534
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:41 am
I am a fan of: Montana
A.K.A.: PhxGriz

Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by SeattleGriz »

This is a perfect example as to why the Gateway Pundit is a great news source.

*News 3-6 days before everyone else
*Great branding ie "Crooked Cop Comey"
*Unhinged

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/0 ... a-warrant/
FBI Lawyer Squeals Like a Pig: Implicates Comey, McCabe, and Yates for Mishandling of FISA Warrant
Everything is better with SeattleGriz
User avatar
CID1990
Level5
Level5
Posts: 25460
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:40 am
I am a fan of: Pie
A.K.A.: CID 1990
Location: กรุงเทพมหานคร

Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by CID1990 »

GP hasn’t really hit on anything there unless there’s additional context we don’t know about

They were trying to get a FISA warrant on somebody who was closely connected with a Presidential campaign.

I would expect that it would have gotten SES signoffs before going to a judge - no midlevel person is going to do that on their own without getting a superior’s clearance. Its basic CYA


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
"You however, are an insufferable ankle biting mental chihuahua..." - Clizzoris
User avatar
JohnStOnge
Egalitarian
Egalitarian
Posts: 20313
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:47 pm
I am a fan of: McNeese State
A.K.A.: JohnStOnge

Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by JohnStOnge »

CID1990 wrote:
Nobody here is saying there isn’t evidence of obstruction of justice - there is - (depending on who you ask of course)
I think that there are clearly people here who take the position that Mueller "didn't find anything" of consequence and that everyone should just drop it and move on. I think that is also the position taken by Republicans in Congress. But it's nonsense.

The Democrats in Congress are biased against Trump and the Republicans in Congress are biased for him. So we cannot have an objective process. Nevertheless, there is obviously plenty of basis for the House to start an impeachment inquiry. There is no way that William Barr saying he doesn't think it was obstruction of Justice suffices to close the matter.
Well, I believe that I must tell the truth
And say things as they really are
But if I told the truth and nothing but the truth
Could I ever be a star?

Deep Purple: No One Came
Image
User avatar
CID1990
Level5
Level5
Posts: 25460
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:40 am
I am a fan of: Pie
A.K.A.: CID 1990
Location: กรุงเทพมหานคร

Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by CID1990 »

JohnStOnge wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
Nobody here is saying there isn’t evidence of obstruction of justice - there is - (depending on who you ask of course)
I think that there are clearly people here who take the position that Mueller "didn't find anything" of consequence and that everyone should just drop it and move on. I think that is also the position taken by Republicans in Congress. But it's nonsense.

The Democrats in Congress are biased against Trump and the Republicans in Congress are biased for him. So we cannot have an objective process. Nevertheless, there is obviously plenty of basis for the House to start an impeachment inquiry. There is no way that William Barr saying he doesn't think it was obstruction of Justice suffices to close the matter.
Thats not what most people are saying and if you’d stop spewing sewage long enough you might see it

BTW- your fellow travelers in the House sure seem to think they can find a conspiracy where Mueller couldnt

There’s some very obvious sour grapes here on your part as well as a lot of others


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
"You however, are an insufferable ankle biting mental chihuahua..." - Clizzoris
User avatar
SeattleGriz
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 16534
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:41 am
I am a fan of: Montana
A.K.A.: PhxGriz

Re: RE: Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by SeattleGriz »

CID1990 wrote:GP hasn’t really hit on anything there unless there’s additional context we don’t know about

They were trying to get a FISA warrant on somebody who was closely connected with a Presidential campaign.

I would expect that it would have gotten SES signoffs before going to a judge - no midlevel person is going to do that on their own without getting a superior’s clearance. Its basic CYA


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
True, this is recycled news. I should have used a better example. Many times I will see a story start at Gateway Pundit and as it gets vetted move to sites like Hotair, Town hall, etc.

It breaks unvetted stories faster than most sites.
Everything is better with SeattleGriz
User avatar
JohnStOnge
Egalitarian
Egalitarian
Posts: 20313
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:47 pm
I am a fan of: McNeese State
A.K.A.: JohnStOnge

Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by JohnStOnge »

CID1990 wrote: BTW- your fellow travelers in the House sure seem to think they can find a conspiracy where Mueller couldnt

There’s some very obvious sour grapes here on your part as well as a lot of others
Sour grapes is when you really want something, can't get it, then say you don't want it. That's not what's going on here. I want Trump out whether I can get that or not.

Otherwise: From what I've seen it's not a matter of them thinking they can get him on criminal conspiracy. I have seen no indication that they are disagreeing with Mueller's conclusion that there is not sufficient evidence to criminally charge anybody with criminal conspiracy. Adam Schiff, for example, publicly stated that he thinks Mueller is an honorable man as well as a good prosecutor and does not question Mueller's conclusion with respect to criminal conspiracy.

What they're doing is saying that doesn't mean there was no "collusion." And that's true. As noted earlier, Mueller did not address the general question of "collusion."

To me, by the common meaning of the term, Manafort sharing internal polling data with a guy with connections to Russian intelligence was "collusion" or "cooperation." Maybe there are some other terms for it.

It all goes back to Trump, Barr, and Republicans in Congress saying the report showed "no collusion." It did not.
Well, I believe that I must tell the truth
And say things as they really are
But if I told the truth and nothing but the truth
Could I ever be a star?

Deep Purple: No One Came
Image
User avatar
JohnStOnge
Egalitarian
Egalitarian
Posts: 20313
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:47 pm
I am a fan of: McNeese State
A.K.A.: JohnStOnge

Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by JohnStOnge »

Another thing: Whoever actually wrote the Mueller report went out of their way to qualify their conclusion that there was not sufficient evidence to charge criminal conspiracy. Let's take a look at the end of the executive summary on the conspiracy investigation again:
Even when individuals testified or agreed to be interviewed, they sometimes provided information that was false or incomplete, leading to some of the false-statements charges described above. And the Office faced practical limits on its ability to access relevant evidence as well-numerous witnesses and subjects lived abroad, and documents were held outside the UnitedStates.

Further, the Office learned that some of the individuals we interviewed or whose conduct we investigated including some associated with the Trump Campaign---deleted relevant communications or communicated during the relevant period using applications that feature encryption or that do not provide for long-term retention of data or communications records. In such cases, the Office was not able to corroborate witness statements through comparison to contemporaneous communications or fully question witnesses about statements that appeared inconsistent with other known facts.

Accordingly, while this report embodies factual and legal determinations that the Office believes to be accurate and complete to the greatest extent possible, given these identified gaps, the Office cannot rule out the possibility that the unavailable information would shed additional light on (or cast in a new light) the events described in the report.
Among other things, any objective person should wonder what they could not corroborate. Maybe I'll know if I ever read the whole report. But it suggests that they had witness statements possibly indicating conspiracy but could not corroborate them. Do I know that? No. But what are they talking about?

Either way the author or authors of that language are clearly saying, "WE ARE NOT SAYING IT DIDN'T HAPPEN. WE WERE NOT ABLE TO LOOK AT EVERYTHING WE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE LOOKED AT."

As I thought about this I thought about the recent national news story about a case where a guy killed his wife and his toddler son told people "Daddy hurt Mommy." The local police strongly suspected the guy offed his wife but they couldn't charge because they didn't have sufficient evidence. Didn't have a body. It wasn't until decades later that the son as a grownup was doing some work around the house and found his Mom's remains that they went after him

The point is, as you know very well, saying "we did not find sufficient evidence to charge criminal conspiracy" is not saying "we don't think there was a criminal conspiracy" and it CERTAINLY isn't saying "there was no collusion."

And, no, it's not like suspecting you of kidnapping the LIndbergh baby.
Well, I believe that I must tell the truth
And say things as they really are
But if I told the truth and nothing but the truth
Could I ever be a star?

Deep Purple: No One Came
Image
Ivytalk
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 26827
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:22 pm
I am a fan of: Salisbury University
Location: Republic of Western Sussex

Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by Ivytalk »

kalm wrote:
SeattleGriz wrote:He is trying to goad Pelosi to impeach. Instant election victory.
Establishment Dems like Pelosi were opposed until Amash outflanked them. :nod:
Amash may have been wrong on the law. He gave the Donks cover, for no compelling reason.
“I’m tired and done.” — 89Hen 3/27/22.
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 59305
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by kalm »

Ivytalk wrote:
kalm wrote:
Establishment Dems like Pelosi were opposed until Amash outflanked them. :nod:
Amash may have been wrong on the law. He gave the Donks cover, for no compelling reason.
Or maybe he’s actually honest and less tribalistic?
Image
Image
Image
Ivytalk
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 26827
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:22 pm
I am a fan of: Salisbury University
Location: Republic of Western Sussex

Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by Ivytalk »

kalm wrote:
Ivytalk wrote:
Amash may have been wrong on the law. He gave the Donks cover, for no compelling reason.
Or maybe he’s actually honest and less tribalistic?
Honest, yes. Accurate, not so much. I like the guy, but he’s no Sam Ervin.
“I’m tired and done.” — 89Hen 3/27/22.
Post Reply