No, it's not. And you really know that.CID1990 wrote:Precisely the same thing.JohnStOnge wrote:
Not the same thing. The Mueller report found numerous interactions with the Russians including that thing where the campaign director shared internal polling data. It's not a "there was nothing" scenario.
There are indeed situation in which one can say "nothing at all was found to indicate." This is not one of them.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread
- JohnStOnge
- Egalitarian
- Posts: 20313
- Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:47 pm
- I am a fan of: McNeese State
- A.K.A.: JohnStOnge
Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread
Well, I believe that I must tell the truth
And say things as they really are
But if I told the truth and nothing but the truth
Could I ever be a star?
Deep Purple: No One Came
And say things as they really are
But if I told the truth and nothing but the truth
Could I ever be a star?
Deep Purple: No One Came
- CID1990
- Level5
- Posts: 25460
- Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:40 am
- I am a fan of: Pie
- A.K.A.: CID 1990
- Location: กรุงเทพมหานคร
Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread
I know that you shilly-shallied about Hillary Clinton’s security violations ... running the gamut between incompetence to ignorance, and now you do an about face - I know that for sureJohnStOnge wrote:No, it's not. And you really know that.CID1990 wrote:
Precisely the same thing.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You have zero credibility on this topic
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
"You however, are an insufferable ankle biting mental chihuahua..." - Clizzoris
- UNI88
- Supporter
- Posts: 19955
- Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:30 am
- I am a fan of: UNI
- Location: the foggy, woggy banks Of the Limpopo River
Re: RE: Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread
Confirmation bias ...CID1990 wrote:I know that you shilly-shallied about Hillary Clinton’s security violations ... running the gamut between incompetence to ignorance, and now you do an about face - I know that for sureJohnStOnge wrote:
No, it's not. And you really know that.
You have zero credibility on this topic
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
- GannonFan
- Level5
- Posts: 18038
- Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:51 am
- I am a fan of: Delaware
- A.K.A.: Non-Partisan Hack
Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread
Well, JSO's doing his best to be as discredited as Jelly has been - it's like he wants to be as wrong as possible and is frustrated that Jelly has that title right now.JohnStOnge wrote:No, it's not. And you really know that.CID1990 wrote:
Precisely the same thing.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Proud Member of the Blue Hen Nation
-
- Supporter
- Posts: 59305
- Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
- I am a fan of: Eastern
- A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
- Location: Northern Palouse
Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread
So there's as much evidence of CID kidnapping the Lindbergh kid as Trump colluding/conspiring/interacting/plotting with the Russians?GannonFan wrote:Well, JSO's doing his best to be as discredited as Jelly has been - it's like he wants to be as wrong as possible and is frustrated that Jelly has that title right now.JohnStOnge wrote:
No, it's not. And you really know that.
Lord of the Flies in defending Trump...the cs version.
- ALPHAGRIZ1
- Level5
- Posts: 16077
- Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:26 am
- I am a fan of: 1995 Montana Griz
- A.K.A.: Fuck Off
- Location: America: and having my rights violated on a daily basis
Re: RE: Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread
Hes in a hottub of stupid just relaxing and soaking it up.
Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
ALPHAGRIZ1 - Now available in internet black
The flat earth society has members all around the globe
- GannonFan
- Level5
- Posts: 18038
- Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:51 am
- I am a fan of: Delaware
- A.K.A.: Non-Partisan Hack
Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread
Holy widening the argument Batman. Interacting with is not in the same scope at all with the other verbs.kalm wrote:So there's as much evidence of CID kidnapping the Lindbergh kid as Trump colluding/conspiring/interacting/plotting with the Russians?GannonFan wrote:
Well, JSO's doing his best to be as discredited as Jelly has been - it's like he wants to be as wrong as possible and is frustrated that Jelly has that title right now.
Lord of the Flies in defending Trump...the cs version.
Proud Member of the Blue Hen Nation
-
- Supporter
- Posts: 59305
- Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
- I am a fan of: Eastern
- A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
- Location: Northern Palouse
Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread
I was being sarcastic. If I just said "collusion" I would have been reminded for 100th time that collusion is not a legal definition.GannonFan wrote:Holy widening the argument Batman. Interacting with is not in the same scope at all with the other verbs.kalm wrote:
So there's as much evidence of CID kidnapping the Lindbergh kid as Trump colluding/conspiring/interacting/plotting with the Russians?
Lord of the Flies in defending Trump...the cs version.
- CID1990
- Level5
- Posts: 25460
- Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:40 am
- I am a fan of: Pie
- A.K.A.: CID 1990
- Location: กรุงเทพมหานคร
Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread
Yes - there is the same amount of actual evidence of a conspiracy with Russians as there is evidence of me kidnapping the Lindbergh baby. I don’t think I stutteredkalm wrote:So there's as much evidence of CID kidnapping the Lindbergh kid as Trump colluding/conspiring/interacting/plotting with the Russians?GannonFan wrote:
Well, JSO's doing his best to be as discredited as Jelly has been - it's like he wants to be as wrong as possible and is frustrated that Jelly has that title right now.
Lord of the Flies in defending Trump...the cs version.
I know some of you (most notably Jelly and JSO) have fanciful and highly customized views on what constitutes evidence of a crime, but there was no evidence of a crime in the non-make believe world that most of us inhabit
"You however, are an insufferable ankle biting mental chihuahua..." - Clizzoris
-
- Supporter
- Posts: 59305
- Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
- I am a fan of: Eastern
- A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
- Location: Northern Palouse
Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread
You’re right. I should have said suspicion instead of evidence.CID1990 wrote:Yes - there is the same amount of actual evidence of a conspiracy with Russians as there is evidence of me kidnapping the Lindbergh baby. I don’t think I stutteredkalm wrote:
So there's as much evidence of CID kidnapping the Lindbergh kid as Trump colluding/conspiring/interacting/plotting with the Russians?
Lord of the Flies in defending Trump...the cs version.
I know some of you (most notably Jelly and JSO) have fanciful and highly customized views on what constitutes evidence of a crime, but there was no evidence of a crime in the non-make believe world that most of us inhabit
The justice department policy of not indicting a sitting president doesn’t mean crimes weren’t committed. Similar to financial crimes and the 2008 crash. Since no one was convicted there must not have been fraud?
It’s a disappointing part of our system where enough wealth and power keeps you out of jail (unless you steal from rich guys like Madoff). Anyone who used the “if I had done what Hillary had done” argument should get this.
Not to mention the tremendous fight to obstruct...whoops....I mean keep financial records secret and administration officials from testifying.
He’s the most guilty acting, innocent person in the history of things.
Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread
Most of the stuff Nadler and his gang of thugs wants, Trump already supplied to Mueller, enough is enough. If those 19 rabid libs couldn’t find anything that should be it.kalm wrote:You’re right. I should have said suspicion instead of evidence.CID1990 wrote:
Yes - there is the same amount of actual evidence of a conspiracy with Russians as there is evidence of me kidnapping the Lindbergh baby. I don’t think I stuttered
I know some of you (most notably Jelly and JSO) have fanciful and highly customized views on what constitutes evidence of a crime, but there was no evidence of a crime in the non-make believe world that most of us inhabit
The justice department policy of not indicting a sitting president doesn’t mean crimes weren’t committed. Similar to financial crimes and the 2008 crash. Since no one was convicted there must not have been fraud?
It’s a disappointing part of our system where enough wealth and power keeps you out of jail (unless you steal from rich guys like Madoff). Anyone who used the “if I had done what Hillary had done” argument should get this.
Not to mention the tremendous fight to obstruct...whoops....I mean keep financial records secret and administration officials from testifying.
He’s the most guilty acting, innocent person in the history of things.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
- JohnStOnge
- Egalitarian
- Posts: 20313
- Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:47 pm
- I am a fan of: McNeese State
- A.K.A.: JohnStOnge
Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread
Mueller found evidence of obstruction of justice. That is very clear. Then Mueller did not make a call as to whether it was sufficient. Then Trump's appointee said that he didn't consider it sufficient. But it's not his call really. Not under our Constitution. Under our Constitution it's Congress' call.css75 wrote:Most of the stuff Nadler and his gang of thugs wants, Trump already supplied to Mueller, enough is enough. If those 19 rabid libs couldn’t find anything that should be it.kalm wrote:
You’re right. I should have said suspicion instead of evidence.
The justice department policy of not indicting a sitting president doesn’t mean crimes weren’t committed. Similar to financial crimes and the 2008 crash. Since no one was convicted there must not have been fraud?
It’s a disappointing part of our system where enough wealth and power keeps you out of jail (unless you steal from rich guys like Madoff). Anyone who used the “if I had done what Hillary had done” argument should get this.
Not to mention the tremendous fight to obstruct...whoops....I mean keep financial records secret and administration officials from testifying.
He’s the most guilty acting, innocent person in the history of things.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
This idea that the investigators "couldn't find anything" is nonsense. They did find things.
Now, I realize that the Democrats are probably in a hopeless position because the Republicans in the Senate have decided to throw integrity to the wind and support Trump no matter what. But the idea that Congress should not investigate/consider this matter is absurd.
Well, I believe that I must tell the truth
And say things as they really are
But if I told the truth and nothing but the truth
Could I ever be a star?
Deep Purple: No One Came
And say things as they really are
But if I told the truth and nothing but the truth
Could I ever be a star?
Deep Purple: No One Came
- SeattleGriz
- Supporter
- Posts: 16534
- Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:41 am
- I am a fan of: Montana
- A.K.A.: PhxGriz
Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread
He is trying to goad Pelosi to impeach. Instant election victory.
Everything is better with SeattleGriz
-
- Supporter
- Posts: 59305
- Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
- I am a fan of: Eastern
- A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
- Location: Northern Palouse
Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread
Establishment Dems like Pelosi were opposed until Amash outflanked them.SeattleGriz wrote:He is trying to goad Pelosi to impeach. Instant election victory.
- CID1990
- Level5
- Posts: 25460
- Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:40 am
- I am a fan of: Pie
- A.K.A.: CID 1990
- Location: กรุงเทพมหานคร
Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread
JohnJohnStOnge wrote:Mueller found evidence of obstruction of justice. That is very clear. Then Mueller did not make a call as to whether it was sufficient. Then Trump's appointee said that he didn't consider it sufficient. But it's not his call really. Not under our Constitution. Under our Constitution it's Congress' call.css75 wrote:
Most of the stuff Nadler and his gang of thugs wants, Trump already supplied to Mueller, enough is enough. If those 19 rabid libs couldn’t find anything that should be it.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
This idea that the investigators "couldn't find anything" is nonsense. They did find things.
Now, I realize that the Democrats are probably in a hopeless position because the Republicans in the Senate have decided to throw integrity to the wind and support Trump no matter what. But the idea that Congress should not investigate/consider this matter is absurd.
Go take your meds, have a seat, and prepare to have your mind blown-
Nobody here is saying there isn’t evidence of obstruction of justice - there is - (depending on who you ask of course)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
"You however, are an insufferable ankle biting mental chihuahua..." - Clizzoris
- SeattleGriz
- Supporter
- Posts: 16534
- Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:41 am
- I am a fan of: Montana
- A.K.A.: PhxGriz
Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread
This is a perfect example as to why the Gateway Pundit is a great news source.
*News 3-6 days before everyone else
*Great branding ie "Crooked Cop Comey"
*Unhinged
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/0 ... a-warrant/
*News 3-6 days before everyone else
*Great branding ie "Crooked Cop Comey"
*Unhinged
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/0 ... a-warrant/
FBI Lawyer Squeals Like a Pig: Implicates Comey, McCabe, and Yates for Mishandling of FISA Warrant
Everything is better with SeattleGriz
- CID1990
- Level5
- Posts: 25460
- Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:40 am
- I am a fan of: Pie
- A.K.A.: CID 1990
- Location: กรุงเทพมหานคร
Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread
GP hasn’t really hit on anything there unless there’s additional context we don’t know about
They were trying to get a FISA warrant on somebody who was closely connected with a Presidential campaign.
I would expect that it would have gotten SES signoffs before going to a judge - no midlevel person is going to do that on their own without getting a superior’s clearance. Its basic CYA
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
They were trying to get a FISA warrant on somebody who was closely connected with a Presidential campaign.
I would expect that it would have gotten SES signoffs before going to a judge - no midlevel person is going to do that on their own without getting a superior’s clearance. Its basic CYA
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
"You however, are an insufferable ankle biting mental chihuahua..." - Clizzoris
- JohnStOnge
- Egalitarian
- Posts: 20313
- Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:47 pm
- I am a fan of: McNeese State
- A.K.A.: JohnStOnge
Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread
I think that there are clearly people here who take the position that Mueller "didn't find anything" of consequence and that everyone should just drop it and move on. I think that is also the position taken by Republicans in Congress. But it's nonsense.CID1990 wrote:
Nobody here is saying there isn’t evidence of obstruction of justice - there is - (depending on who you ask of course)
The Democrats in Congress are biased against Trump and the Republicans in Congress are biased for him. So we cannot have an objective process. Nevertheless, there is obviously plenty of basis for the House to start an impeachment inquiry. There is no way that William Barr saying he doesn't think it was obstruction of Justice suffices to close the matter.
Well, I believe that I must tell the truth
And say things as they really are
But if I told the truth and nothing but the truth
Could I ever be a star?
Deep Purple: No One Came
And say things as they really are
But if I told the truth and nothing but the truth
Could I ever be a star?
Deep Purple: No One Came
- CID1990
- Level5
- Posts: 25460
- Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:40 am
- I am a fan of: Pie
- A.K.A.: CID 1990
- Location: กรุงเทพมหานคร
Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread
Thats not what most people are saying and if you’d stop spewing sewage long enough you might see itJohnStOnge wrote:I think that there are clearly people here who take the position that Mueller "didn't find anything" of consequence and that everyone should just drop it and move on. I think that is also the position taken by Republicans in Congress. But it's nonsense.CID1990 wrote:
Nobody here is saying there isn’t evidence of obstruction of justice - there is - (depending on who you ask of course)
The Democrats in Congress are biased against Trump and the Republicans in Congress are biased for him. So we cannot have an objective process. Nevertheless, there is obviously plenty of basis for the House to start an impeachment inquiry. There is no way that William Barr saying he doesn't think it was obstruction of Justice suffices to close the matter.
BTW- your fellow travelers in the House sure seem to think they can find a conspiracy where Mueller couldnt
There’s some very obvious sour grapes here on your part as well as a lot of others
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
"You however, are an insufferable ankle biting mental chihuahua..." - Clizzoris
- SeattleGriz
- Supporter
- Posts: 16534
- Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:41 am
- I am a fan of: Montana
- A.K.A.: PhxGriz
Re: RE: Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread
True, this is recycled news. I should have used a better example. Many times I will see a story start at Gateway Pundit and as it gets vetted move to sites like Hotair, Town hall, etc.CID1990 wrote:GP hasn’t really hit on anything there unless there’s additional context we don’t know about
They were trying to get a FISA warrant on somebody who was closely connected with a Presidential campaign.
I would expect that it would have gotten SES signoffs before going to a judge - no midlevel person is going to do that on their own without getting a superior’s clearance. Its basic CYA
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It breaks unvetted stories faster than most sites.
Everything is better with SeattleGriz
- JohnStOnge
- Egalitarian
- Posts: 20313
- Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:47 pm
- I am a fan of: McNeese State
- A.K.A.: JohnStOnge
Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread
Sour grapes is when you really want something, can't get it, then say you don't want it. That's not what's going on here. I want Trump out whether I can get that or not.CID1990 wrote: BTW- your fellow travelers in the House sure seem to think they can find a conspiracy where Mueller couldnt
There’s some very obvious sour grapes here on your part as well as a lot of others
Otherwise: From what I've seen it's not a matter of them thinking they can get him on criminal conspiracy. I have seen no indication that they are disagreeing with Mueller's conclusion that there is not sufficient evidence to criminally charge anybody with criminal conspiracy. Adam Schiff, for example, publicly stated that he thinks Mueller is an honorable man as well as a good prosecutor and does not question Mueller's conclusion with respect to criminal conspiracy.
What they're doing is saying that doesn't mean there was no "collusion." And that's true. As noted earlier, Mueller did not address the general question of "collusion."
To me, by the common meaning of the term, Manafort sharing internal polling data with a guy with connections to Russian intelligence was "collusion" or "cooperation." Maybe there are some other terms for it.
It all goes back to Trump, Barr, and Republicans in Congress saying the report showed "no collusion." It did not.
Well, I believe that I must tell the truth
And say things as they really are
But if I told the truth and nothing but the truth
Could I ever be a star?
Deep Purple: No One Came
And say things as they really are
But if I told the truth and nothing but the truth
Could I ever be a star?
Deep Purple: No One Came
- JohnStOnge
- Egalitarian
- Posts: 20313
- Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:47 pm
- I am a fan of: McNeese State
- A.K.A.: JohnStOnge
Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread
Another thing: Whoever actually wrote the Mueller report went out of their way to qualify their conclusion that there was not sufficient evidence to charge criminal conspiracy. Let's take a look at the end of the executive summary on the conspiracy investigation again:
Either way the author or authors of that language are clearly saying, "WE ARE NOT SAYING IT DIDN'T HAPPEN. WE WERE NOT ABLE TO LOOK AT EVERYTHING WE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE LOOKED AT."
As I thought about this I thought about the recent national news story about a case where a guy killed his wife and his toddler son told people "Daddy hurt Mommy." The local police strongly suspected the guy offed his wife but they couldn't charge because they didn't have sufficient evidence. Didn't have a body. It wasn't until decades later that the son as a grownup was doing some work around the house and found his Mom's remains that they went after him
The point is, as you know very well, saying "we did not find sufficient evidence to charge criminal conspiracy" is not saying "we don't think there was a criminal conspiracy" and it CERTAINLY isn't saying "there was no collusion."
And, no, it's not like suspecting you of kidnapping the LIndbergh baby.
Among other things, any objective person should wonder what they could not corroborate. Maybe I'll know if I ever read the whole report. But it suggests that they had witness statements possibly indicating conspiracy but could not corroborate them. Do I know that? No. But what are they talking about?Even when individuals testified or agreed to be interviewed, they sometimes provided information that was false or incomplete, leading to some of the false-statements charges described above. And the Office faced practical limits on its ability to access relevant evidence as well-numerous witnesses and subjects lived abroad, and documents were held outside the UnitedStates.
Further, the Office learned that some of the individuals we interviewed or whose conduct we investigated including some associated with the Trump Campaign---deleted relevant communications or communicated during the relevant period using applications that feature encryption or that do not provide for long-term retention of data or communications records. In such cases, the Office was not able to corroborate witness statements through comparison to contemporaneous communications or fully question witnesses about statements that appeared inconsistent with other known facts.
Accordingly, while this report embodies factual and legal determinations that the Office believes to be accurate and complete to the greatest extent possible, given these identified gaps, the Office cannot rule out the possibility that the unavailable information would shed additional light on (or cast in a new light) the events described in the report.
Either way the author or authors of that language are clearly saying, "WE ARE NOT SAYING IT DIDN'T HAPPEN. WE WERE NOT ABLE TO LOOK AT EVERYTHING WE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE LOOKED AT."
As I thought about this I thought about the recent national news story about a case where a guy killed his wife and his toddler son told people "Daddy hurt Mommy." The local police strongly suspected the guy offed his wife but they couldn't charge because they didn't have sufficient evidence. Didn't have a body. It wasn't until decades later that the son as a grownup was doing some work around the house and found his Mom's remains that they went after him
The point is, as you know very well, saying "we did not find sufficient evidence to charge criminal conspiracy" is not saying "we don't think there was a criminal conspiracy" and it CERTAINLY isn't saying "there was no collusion."
And, no, it's not like suspecting you of kidnapping the LIndbergh baby.
Well, I believe that I must tell the truth
And say things as they really are
But if I told the truth and nothing but the truth
Could I ever be a star?
Deep Purple: No One Came
And say things as they really are
But if I told the truth and nothing but the truth
Could I ever be a star?
Deep Purple: No One Came
-
- Supporter
- Posts: 26827
- Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:22 pm
- I am a fan of: Salisbury University
- Location: Republic of Western Sussex
Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread
Amash may have been wrong on the law. He gave the Donks cover, for no compelling reason.kalm wrote:Establishment Dems like Pelosi were opposed until Amash outflanked them.SeattleGriz wrote:He is trying to goad Pelosi to impeach. Instant election victory.
“I’m tired and done.” — 89Hen 3/27/22.
-
- Supporter
- Posts: 59305
- Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
- I am a fan of: Eastern
- A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
- Location: Northern Palouse
Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread
Or maybe he’s actually honest and less tribalistic?Ivytalk wrote:Amash may have been wrong on the law. He gave the Donks cover, for no compelling reason.kalm wrote:
Establishment Dems like Pelosi were opposed until Amash outflanked them.
-
- Supporter
- Posts: 26827
- Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:22 pm
- I am a fan of: Salisbury University
- Location: Republic of Western Sussex
Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread
Honest, yes. Accurate, not so much. I like the guy, but he’s no Sam Ervin.kalm wrote:Or maybe he’s actually honest and less tribalistic?Ivytalk wrote:
Amash may have been wrong on the law. He gave the Donks cover, for no compelling reason.
“I’m tired and done.” — 89Hen 3/27/22.