Joe Mauer Hall of Famer?

[Gil Dobie]

Ok, I just went back and reviewed all hall of farmers. Ones I never heard of I did not rank. I started following in 1962, so I seen at least on tv all since then. I did not worry about managers, execs, etc., only players. The requirement of all time great started to slide in the 90s and more make my list the further we go.

Ashburn 1995, while very good he certainly was not elite. Having friends as a broadcaster probably helped him a lot.

Niekro and Sutton 1999. While very consistently good, neither were great in their era, but their longevity got them in.

Perez 2000, I still struggle on him. His totals weren’t great .279 and 379 hr, but he was pre-steroid era. Rice 2009 also falls into this area, though average .298 higher.

Mazeroski 2001. Him and Baines are the weakest. 1 big homer and good defense are not enough.

Molitor 2004 Very good not great.

Trammel 2011 same as Molitor

Larkin and Santo 2012 both fall into very good category, broadcasting helped Santo a lot

Piazza 2016 not a very good catcher, but a solid power hitter. Also, did he get some help after first 2 minor league seasons, which were not good.

Bagwell and Rodriguez 2017 steroids in play here?

Hoffman 2018 I just didn’t think he was all that good, blew lead in 2007 play in game.

One omission that I feel should’ve in: Maury Wills, he totally changed the game in early 60s, bringing speed back to it. Without him Henderson, Brock and others might never have had the impact they did.






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Trammell is 11th on the shortstop list, ahead of Jeter and Larkin. Honus Wagner, A-Roid and Ripken lead that position.

[JoltinJoe]

Well, first of all, not sure where Gil got his WAR numbers, but they are not the same as the WAR numbers on Baseball Reference.com.

But where you've drawn the line, you've included a steroid wonder (Pudge Rodriguez); a compiler (Fisk); and a guy who should have grabbed a first basemen's mitt, given his defensive limitations as a catcher (Piazza). I would take Munson over Fisk or Piazza behind the dish any day; and I would take him over the non-steroid Pudge too.

You've left Yogi Berra, one of two All-Century catchers, out? Seriously?

It's a calculation of WAR, called JAWS, used to calculate HOF worthiness of players. If you look at the baseball reference page and find the spot for HOF JAWS for the players position.

For catching, I don't like JAWs as much, because so many "catchers" wind up getting so many starts at other positions, so their best seven years are often those years when they are doing little catching.

Again, that is what makes Munson's 46.1 WAR in 10 seasons so remarkable. He got all of that catching, and he comes out, as a catcher, with 4.61 WAR per year.

I mean, its laughable when people push a bad catcher, like Ted Simmons (who got run out of St. Louis because he refused to move to first base), with a career WAR of 50.3 over 20 seasons, over Munson. I mean his WAR per season was 2.5.

[Gil Dobie]

It's a calculation of WAR, called JAWS, used to calculate HOF worthiness of players. If you look at the baseball reference page and find the spot for HOF JAWS for the players position.

For catching, I don't like JAWs as much, because so many "catchers" wind up getting so many starts at other positions, so their best seven years are often those years when they are doing little catching.

Again, that is what makes Munson's 46.1 WAR in 10 seasons so remarkable. He got all of that catching, and he comes out, as a catcher, with 4.61 WAR per year.

I mean, its laughable when people push a bad catcher, like Ted Simmons (who got run out of St. Louis because he refused to move to first base), with a career WAR of 50.3 over 20 seasons, over Munson. I mean his WAR per season was 2.5.

It's the opposite for Mauer, his best 7 seasons were as a catcher, with a WAR of 3.6 or higher. The reason he dh'ed, was to keep his bat in the lineup.

[dbackjon]

I don't think either will sniff the HOF.

I agree, those two aren't close to being HOF'ers, especially Molina. Good ball players and nice careers, but HOF should be pretty exclusive. Those guys ain't it.

But the "Best Fans in Baseball" claim Molina is the GOAT

[GannonFan]

I agree, those two aren't close to being HOF'ers, especially Molina. Good ball players and nice careers, but HOF should be pretty exclusive. Those guys ain't it.

But the "Best Fans in Baseball" claim Molina is the GOAT

You just can't give yourself nicknames. People just laugh at that. It's like how the cowboys are always mocked for claiming to be "America's Team", when the vast majority of Americans actually loathe them.

Besides, they lost their baseball IQ when they swore Scott Rolen was potentially a top 3 3B of all time.

[GannonFan]

For catching, I don't like JAWs as much, because so many "catchers" wind up getting so many starts at other positions, so their best seven years are often those years when they are doing little catching.

Again, that is what makes Munson's 46.1 WAR in 10 seasons so remarkable. He got all of that catching, and he comes out, as a catcher, with 4.61 WAR per year.

I mean, its laughable when people push a bad catcher, like Ted Simmons (who got run out of St. Louis because he refused to move to first base), with a career WAR of 50.3 over 20 seasons, over Munson. I mean his WAR per season was 2.5.

It's the opposite for Mauer, his best 7 seasons were as a catcher, with a WAR of 3.6 or higher. The reason he dh'ed, was to keep his bat in the lineup.

But in the end he only had 5 years where he caught more than 100 times in a season. That's a real small sample size to then only compare him with guys who were just catchers.

[Gil Dobie]

It's the opposite for Mauer, his best 7 seasons were as a catcher, with a WAR of 3.6 or higher. The reason he dh'ed, was to keep his bat in the lineup.

But in the end he only had 5 years where he caught more than 100 times in a season. That's a real small sample size to then only compare him with guys who were just catchers.

Mauer's on this list 4 times during his catching days of 100 or more games.

Rk Player Year Tm WAR
1 Mike Piazza 1997 LAD 8.46
1 Johnny Bench 1972 CIN 8.46
3 Gary Carter 1982 MON 8.30
4 Johnny Bench 1974 CIN 7.69
5 Joe Mauer 2009 MIN 7.58
6 Darrell Porter 1979 KCR 7.40
7 Buster Posey 2012 SFG 7.17
8 Gary Carter 1984 MON 7.15
9 Johnny Bench 1970 CIN 7.09
10 Carlton Fisk 1972 BOS 6.95
11 Thurman Munson 1973 NYY 6.94
12 Gary Carter 1983 MON 6.84
13 Mike Piazza 1993 LAD 6.83
14 Roy Campanella 1953 BRO 6.8
15 Yadier Molina 2012 STL 6.75
16 Darren Daulton 1992 PHI 6.73
17 Carlton Fisk 1977 BOS 6.66
18 Gary Carter 1985 NYM 6.62
19 Javy Lopez 2003 ATL 6.59
20 Chris Hoiles 1993 BAL 6.51
21 Bill Freehan 1968 DET 6.46
22 Rick Wilkins 1993 CHC 6.45
23 Johnny Bench 1975 CIN 6.40
24 Roy Campanella 1951 BRO 6.32
25 Thurman Munson 1975 NYY 6.26
26 Gary Carter 1980 MON 6.21
27 Ivan Rodriguez 1997 TEX 6.20
28 Joe Torre 1966 ATL 6.17
29 Yogi Berra 1956 NYY 6.11
29 Ivan Rodriguez 1998 TEX 6.11
31 Ivan Rodriguez 1999 TEX 6.10
32 Mickey Cochrane 1933 PHA 6.05
33 Mike Piazza 1995 LAD 6.04
33 Bill Dickey 1937 NYY 6.04
35 Johnny Bench 1969 CIN 6.03
36 Mike Piazza 1998 3TM 5.97
37 Ivan Rodriguez 1996 TEX 5.85
38 Tim McCarver 1967 STL 5.80
39 Gary Carter 1979 MON 5.76
40 Bill Freehan 1967 DET 5.72
40 Gene Tenace 1979 SDP 5.72
42 Tony Pena 1984 PIT 5.66
43 Jorge Posada 2003 NYY 5.63
44 Roger Bresnahan 1908 NYG 5.62
45 Gary Carter 1978 MON 5.61
46 Carlton Fisk 1978 BOS 5.60
47 Joe Mauer 2006 MIN 5.55
48 Joe Mauer 2010 MIN 5.53
49 Mickey Tettleton 1991 DET 5.38
50 Yogi Berra 1950 NYY 5.35
50 Johnny Bench 1979 CIN 5.35
50 Jason Kendall 1998 PIT 5.35
50 Russell Martin 2007 LAD 5.35
54 Ernie Lombardi 1938 CIN 5.34
54 Elston Howard 1964 NYY 5.34
56 Brian Downing 1979 CAL 5.33
57 Yogi Berra 1952 NYY 5.31
57 Ted Simmons 1978 STL 5.31
59 Joe Mauer 2008 MIN 5.28
59 Mickey Cochrane 1932 PHA 5.28

Of the top 60 WAR seasons by catchers.
Gary Carter 7 times
Johnny Bench 6
Joe Mauer 4
I-Rod 4
Piazza 4

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Yadier Molina has a good chance to get in, and maybe Buster Posey.

I don't think either will sniff the HOF.

They shouldn't especially Posey

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[ALPHAGRIZ1]

I agree, those two aren't close to being HOF'ers, especially Molina. Good ball players and nice careers, but HOF should be pretty exclusive. Those guys ain't it.

Sabermetrics calculation for Hall of Fame worthiness of the top 20 rated catchers of all-time.

1 Johnny Bench HOF 61.2
2 Gary Carter HOF 59.3
3 Ivan Rodriguez HOF 54.3
4 Carlton Fisk HOF 53.0
5 Mike Piazza HOF 51.4
6 Yogi Berra HOF 49.0
7 Bill Dickey HOF 47.3
8 Joe Mauer 47.0
9 Gabby Hartnett HOF 46.7
10 Ted Simmons 42.6
11 Mickey Cochrane HOF 42.1
12 Thurman Munson 41.6
13 Gene Tenace 40.9
14 Buck Ewing HOF 39.4
15 Bill Freehan 39.3
16 Buster Posey 39.2
17 Ernie Lombardi HOF 37.8
18 Wally Schang 37.8
19 Jorge Posada 37.7
20 Roger Bresnahan HOF 36.6

I dont think sabermetrics should be in the HOF either

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[GannonFan]

But in the end he only had 5 years where he caught more than 100 times in a season. That's a real small sample size to then only compare him with guys who were just catchers.

Mauer's on this list 4 times during his catching days of 100 or more games.

Rk Player Year Tm WAR
1 Mike Piazza 1997 LAD 8.46
1 Johnny Bench 1972 CIN 8.46
3 Gary Carter 1982 MON 8.30
4 Johnny Bench 1974 CIN 7.69
5 Joe Mauer 2009 MIN 7.58
6 Darrell Porter 1979 KCR 7.40
7 Buster Posey 2012 SFG 7.17
8 Gary Carter 1984 MON 7.15
9 Johnny Bench 1970 CIN 7.09
10 Carlton Fisk 1972 BOS 6.95
11 Thurman Munson 1973 NYY 6.94
12 Gary Carter 1983 MON 6.84
13 Mike Piazza 1993 LAD 6.83
14 Roy Campanella 1953 BRO 6.8
15 Yadier Molina 2012 STL 6.75
16 Darren Daulton 1992 PHI 6.73
17 Carlton Fisk 1977 BOS 6.66
18 Gary Carter 1985 NYM 6.62
19 Javy Lopez 2003 ATL 6.59
20 Chris Hoiles 1993 BAL 6.51
21 Bill Freehan 1968 DET 6.46
22 Rick Wilkins 1993 CHC 6.45
23 Johnny Bench 1975 CIN 6.40
24 Roy Campanella 1951 BRO 6.32
25 Thurman Munson 1975 NYY 6.26
26 Gary Carter 1980 MON 6.21
27 Ivan Rodriguez 1997 TEX 6.20
28 Joe Torre 1966 ATL 6.17
29 Yogi Berra 1956 NYY 6.11
29 Ivan Rodriguez 1998 TEX 6.11
31 Ivan Rodriguez 1999 TEX 6.10
32 Mickey Cochrane 1933 PHA 6.05
33 Mike Piazza 1995 LAD 6.04
33 Bill Dickey 1937 NYY 6.04
35 Johnny Bench 1969 CIN 6.03
36 Mike Piazza 1998 3TM 5.97
37 Ivan Rodriguez 1996 TEX 5.85
38 Tim McCarver 1967 STL 5.80
39 Gary Carter 1979 MON 5.76
40 Bill Freehan 1967 DET 5.72
40 Gene Tenace 1979 SDP 5.72
42 Tony Pena 1984 PIT 5.66
43 Jorge Posada 2003 NYY 5.63
44 Roger Bresnahan 1908 NYG 5.62
45 Gary Carter 1978 MON 5.61
46 Carlton Fisk 1978 BOS 5.60
47 Joe Mauer 2006 MIN 5.55
48 Joe Mauer 2010 MIN 5.53
49 Mickey Tettleton 1991 DET 5.38
50 Yogi Berra 1950 NYY 5.35
50 Johnny Bench 1979 CIN 5.35
50 Jason Kendall 1998 PIT 5.35
50 Russell Martin 2007 LAD 5.35
54 Ernie Lombardi 1938 CIN 5.34
54 Elston Howard 1964 NYY 5.34
56 Brian Downing 1979 CAL 5.33
57 Yogi Berra 1952 NYY 5.31
57 Ted Simmons 1978 STL 5.31
59 Joe Mauer 2008 MIN 5.28
59 Mickey Cochrane 1932 PHA 5.28

Of the top 60 WAR seasons by catchers.
Gary Carter 7 times
Johnny Bench 6
Joe Mauer 4
I-Rod 4
Piazza 4

Geez, talk about playing with stats. 3 of those 4 times for Mauer are 47th, 48th, and 59th on the list. I-Rod's 4 times on that list are all in the top 40. Heck, all that list does is prove that Mauer had a few really great years and then not much else. Like I said earlier in the thread, if you're going to try to make it into the HOF on a short career beset by injuries, it better be Sandy Koufax-level awesome during those years. I've never met Sandy Koufax, but Joe Mauer, you are no Sandy Koufax.

[css75]

I don't think either will sniff the HOF.

They shouldn't especially Posey

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The only thing Posey did was get a rule imposed because he doesn’t know how to properly block the plate.


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[Gil Dobie]

Mauer's on this list 4 times during his catching days of 100 or more games.

Rk Player Year Tm WAR
1 Mike Piazza 1997 LAD 8.46
1 Johnny Bench 1972 CIN 8.46
3 Gary Carter 1982 MON 8.30
4 Johnny Bench 1974 CIN 7.69
5 Joe Mauer 2009 MIN 7.58
6 Darrell Porter 1979 KCR 7.40
7 Buster Posey 2012 SFG 7.17
8 Gary Carter 1984 MON 7.15
9 Johnny Bench 1970 CIN 7.09
10 Carlton Fisk 1972 BOS 6.95
11 Thurman Munson 1973 NYY 6.94
12 Gary Carter 1983 MON 6.84
13 Mike Piazza 1993 LAD 6.83
14 Roy Campanella 1953 BRO 6.8
15 Yadier Molina 2012 STL 6.75
16 Darren Daulton 1992 PHI 6.73
17 Carlton Fisk 1977 BOS 6.66
18 Gary Carter 1985 NYM 6.62
19 Javy Lopez 2003 ATL 6.59
20 Chris Hoiles 1993 BAL 6.51
21 Bill Freehan 1968 DET 6.46
22 Rick Wilkins 1993 CHC 6.45
23 Johnny Bench 1975 CIN 6.40
24 Roy Campanella 1951 BRO 6.32
25 Thurman Munson 1975 NYY 6.26
26 Gary Carter 1980 MON 6.21
27 Ivan Rodriguez 1997 TEX 6.20
28 Joe Torre 1966 ATL 6.17
29 Yogi Berra 1956 NYY 6.11
29 Ivan Rodriguez 1998 TEX 6.11
31 Ivan Rodriguez 1999 TEX 6.10
32 Mickey Cochrane 1933 PHA 6.05
33 Mike Piazza 1995 LAD 6.04
33 Bill Dickey 1937 NYY 6.04
35 Johnny Bench 1969 CIN 6.03
36 Mike Piazza 1998 3TM 5.97
37 Ivan Rodriguez 1996 TEX 5.85
38 Tim McCarver 1967 STL 5.80
39 Gary Carter 1979 MON 5.76
40 Bill Freehan 1967 DET 5.72
40 Gene Tenace 1979 SDP 5.72
42 Tony Pena 1984 PIT 5.66
43 Jorge Posada 2003 NYY 5.63
44 Roger Bresnahan 1908 NYG 5.62
45 Gary Carter 1978 MON 5.61
46 Carlton Fisk 1978 BOS 5.60
47 Joe Mauer 2006 MIN 5.55
48 Joe Mauer 2010 MIN 5.53
49 Mickey Tettleton 1991 DET 5.38
50 Yogi Berra 1950 NYY 5.35
50 Johnny Bench 1979 CIN 5.35
50 Jason Kendall 1998 PIT 5.35
50 Russell Martin 2007 LAD 5.35
54 Ernie Lombardi 1938 CIN 5.34
54 Elston Howard 1964 NYY 5.34
56 Brian Downing 1979 CAL 5.33
57 Yogi Berra 1952 NYY 5.31
57 Ted Simmons 1978 STL 5.31
59 Joe Mauer 2008 MIN 5.28
59 Mickey Cochrane 1932 PHA 5.28

Of the top 60 WAR seasons by catchers.
Gary Carter 7 times
Johnny Bench 6
Joe Mauer 4
I-Rod 4
Piazza 4

Geez, talk about playing with stats. 3 of those 4 times for Mauer are 47th, 48th, and 59th on the list. I-Rod's 4 times on that list are all in the top 40. Heck, all that list does is prove that Mauer had a few really great years and then not much else. Like I said earlier in the thread, if you're going to try to make it into the HOF on a short career beset by injuries, it better be Sandy Koufax-level awesome during those years. I've never met Sandy Koufax, but Joe Mauer, you are no Sandy Koufax.

Never said Mauer's career was better than I-Rod's or Sandy Koufax, just saying he could be a Hall of Famer. If it's so easy, and the stats are manipulated by me, how come so few catchers have over a 5.0 WAR?

I doubt we will every agree, but catching 900 games and batting at a high level during those 900 games, should give him at least a shot. You compare when he wasn't catching with stats when he was, and it isn't even close. Mauer performed at a Hall of Fame level for a catcher, over those 900 games.

[AZGrizFan]

Funny someone called Piazza overrated yet he’s 1st, and all four of his appearances are above 3 of Mauer’s 4. Overrated, indeed.

[Gil Dobie]

Funny someone called Piazza overrated yet he’s 1st, and all four of his appearances are above 3 of Mauer’s 4. Overrated, indeed.

I believe Joe was talking about his defense.

[GannonFan]

Funny someone called Piazza overrated yet he’s 1st, and all four of his appearances are above 3 of Mauer’s 4. Overrated, indeed.

I believe Joe was talking about his defense.

No one has ever overrated Mike Piazza's defense - everyone knew he was mediocre at best in that regard. Dude could really hit though.

[JoltinJoe]

The other thing about Piazza is that he was, almost assuredly, using PEDs. So he's in the Hall, while other guys have been kept out for PED use.

A reporter friend who covered the Mets told me that Piazza had notoriously bad acne on his back, as bad as that kid with the greasy hair in your high school gym class. He said he had never seen anything like this on any other grown man.

[AZGrizFan]

The other thing about Piazza is that he was, almost assuredly, using PEDs. So he's in the Hall, while other guys have been kept out for PED use.

A reporter friend who covered the Mets told me that Piazza had notoriously bad acne on his back, as bad as that kid with the greasy hair in your high school gym class. He said he had never seen anything like this on any other grown man.

Well, it landed him in the hall and married to a Playboy bunny....so, there’s that.

[css75]

The other thing about Piazza is that he was, almost assuredly, using PEDs. So he's in the Hall, while other guys have been kept out for PED use.

A reporter friend who covered the Mets told me that Piazza had notoriously bad acne on his back, as bad as that kid with the greasy hair in your high school gym class. He said he had never seen anything like this on any other grown man.

If you go by his stats, 3rd year in the minors appears to be his beginning,


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[AZGrizFan]

The other thing about Piazza is that he was, almost assuredly, using PEDs. So he's in the Hall, while other guys have been kept out for PED use.

A reporter friend who covered the Mets told me that Piazza had notoriously bad acne on his back, as bad as that kid with the greasy hair in your high school gym class. He said he had never seen anything like this on any other grown man.

Heard the same about McGuire....

[JoltinJoe]

The other thing about Piazza is that he was, almost assuredly, using PEDs. So he's in the Hall, while other guys have been kept out for PED use.

A reporter friend who covered the Mets told me that Piazza had notoriously bad acne on his back, as bad as that kid with the greasy hair in your high school gym class. He said he had never seen anything like this on any other grown man.

Well, it landed him in the hall and married to a Playboy bunny....so, there’s that.

Yea, but I read an article in The Athletic not too long ago about Piazza buying a Third Division Italian soccer team in which she was quoted extensively. She's pretty obviously IQ-challenged and has the mouth of a Sopranos wife. I don't see long-term bliss, especially given that her assets have limited shelf life. So, in the end, she will likely purloin a fair amount of Mike's steroid bounty in exchange for Mike's ransom.

I don't really have a problem with Piazza and the HOF; however, if Piazza and Pudge are already there, why are the writers busting the balls of Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, McGuire, and Palmiero? Some inconsistent justice is being meted out.

[AZGrizFan]

Well, it landed him in the hall and married to a Playboy bunny....so, there’s that.

Yea, but I read an article in The Athletic not too long ago about Piazza buying a Third Division Italian soccer team in which she was quoted extensively. She's pretty obviously IQ-challenged and has the mouth of a Sopranos wife. I don't see long-term bliss, especially given that her assets have limited shelf life. So, in the end, she will likely purloin a fair amount of Mike's steroid bounty in exchange for Mike's ransom.

I don't really have a problem with Piazza and the HOF; however, if Piazza and Pudge are already there, why are the writers busting the balls of Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, McGuire, and Palmiero? Some inconsistent justice is being meted out.

Yes. I believe all will be in shortly. Didnt’ help their cause (some) that they’re jerks (Bonds, Clemens, McGuire, I’m looking at you...)

[Gil Dobie]

Well, it landed him in the hall and married to a Playboy bunny....so, there’s that.

Yea, but I read an article in The Athletic not too long ago about Piazza buying a Third Division Italian soccer team in which she was quoted extensively. She's pretty obviously IQ-challenged and has the mouth of a Sopranos wife. I don't see long-term bliss, especially given that her assets have limited shelf life. So, in the end, she will likely purloin a fair amount of Mike's steroid bounty in exchange for Mike's ransom.

I don't really have a problem with Piazza and the HOF; however, if Piazza and Pudge are already there, why are the writers busting the balls of Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, McGuire, and Palmiero? Some inconsistent justice is being meted out.

Comes the day, players can talk freely about their steroid use, more players already in the HOF will be revealed.

[GannonFan]

Yea, but I read an article in The Athletic not too long ago about Piazza buying a Third Division Italian soccer team in which she was quoted extensively. She's pretty obviously IQ-challenged and has the mouth of a Sopranos wife. I don't see long-term bliss, especially given that her assets have limited shelf life. So, in the end, she will likely purloin a fair amount of Mike's steroid bounty in exchange for Mike's ransom.

I don't really have a problem with Piazza and the HOF; however, if Piazza and Pudge are already there, why are the writers busting the balls of Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, McGuire, and Palmiero? Some inconsistent justice is being meted out.

Yes. I believe all will be in shortly. Didnt’ help their cause (some) that they’re jerks (Bonds, Clemens, McGuire, I’m looking at you...)

No guarantee they'll be in, still haven't seen their vote totals increase at the rate that will make it inevitable. I'm good with still keeping them out - you're right, they were jerks, they did cheat, and most of them vehemently denied the cheating, some even to this day, despite clear evidence that those guys did cheat. Same can't be said of the guys who may have snuck in. Some guys are still just rumors. I would never vote in the Bonds/Clemens/McGuire crowd. Let the veterans committee vote them in posthumously decades down the road. Maybe they can do a "clean slate" year and induct those guys in with Shoeless Joe and Pete Rose at the same time.

[css75]

Yea, but I read an article in The Athletic not too long ago about Piazza buying a Third Division Italian soccer team in which she was quoted extensively. She's pretty obviously IQ-challenged and has the mouth of a Sopranos wife. I don't see long-term bliss, especially given that her assets have limited shelf life. So, in the end, she will likely purloin a fair amount of Mike's steroid bounty in exchange for Mike's ransom.

I don't really have a problem with Piazza and the HOF; however, if Piazza and Pudge are already there, why are the writers busting the balls of Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, McGuire, and Palmiero? Some inconsistent justice is being meted out.

Yes. I believe all will be in shortly. Didnt’ help their cause (some) that they’re jerks (Bonds, Clemens, McGuire, I’m looking at you...)

Yet teams hire these roid monkeys as coaches. Pudge last a huge amount of weight after the Mitchell report, funny thing for some reason his power numbers went down also.


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[css75]

Yes. I believe all will be in shortly. Didnt’ help their cause (some) that they’re jerks (Bonds, Clemens, McGuire, I’m looking at you...)

No guarantee they'll be in, still haven't seen their vote totals increase at the rate that will make it inevitable. I'm good with still keeping them out - you're right, they were jerks, they did cheat, and most of them vehemently denied the cheating, some even to this day, despite clear evidence that those guys did cheat. Same can't be said of the guys who may have snuck in. Some guys are still just rumors. I would never vote in the Bonds/Clemens/McGuire crowd. Let the veterans committee vote them in posthumously decades down the road. Maybe they can do a "clean slate" year and induct those guys in with Shoeless Joe and Pete Rose at the same time.

Speaking of Pete Rose, I used to be against him getting in, but now think MLB owes him an apology after endorsing Draft Kings on the MLB Network, I have played fantasy baseball 25 years, and that is gambling not fantasy baseball.


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