Trump Tariffs = Tax Hike on all

[CID1990]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-chin ... SKCN1UV061

China also stopping importing US Ag products

Another gift to American oligarchs. They'll use this to foreclose on small farms, buy land at dirt-cheap prices, use it for factory farming, or just sit on the land to drive up value.

The divide keeps getting larger, but at some point you run out of sympathy for those who keep supporting conservative voodoo economics. Dumb and confident is a very dangerous combination.

You must have stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night (and watched Field of Dreams)

Soybeans are the main ag product in question. Soybean farmers are not small farmers - and they will get bailed out




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[Skjellyfetti]

Soybean farmers are not small farmers - and they will get bailed out

And, you're cool with that?

[CID1990]

Soybean farmers are not small farmers - and they will get bailed out

And, you're cool with that?

For strategic industries?

Yes

I always have been in certain exigent circumstances and have said so here many times.


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[kalm]

And, you're cool with that?

For strategic industries?

Yes

I always have been in certain exigent circumstances and have said so here many times.


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So soybeans are sort of like big banks or deficits to conservatives.

[Skjellyfetti]

For strategic industries?

Yes

I always have been in certain exigent circumstances and have said so here many times.


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So soybeans are sort of like big banks or deficits to conservatives.

The exigent circumstances for the deficit are when a Donk is in the White House.

Borrowing money from China to pay farmers for soybeans they can't sell to China.

[HI54UNI]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-chin ... SKCN1UV061

China also stopping importing US Ag products

Another gift to American oligarchs. They'll use this to foreclose on small farms, buy land at dirt-cheap prices, use it for factory farming, or just sit on the land to drive up value.

The divide keeps getting larger, but at some point you run out of sympathy for those who keep supporting conservative voodoo economics. Dumb and confident is a very dangerous combination.

Maybe ECB farming is different but there are very few small farms left in the midwest, land values have reached a pretty steady level and short of corn going to $7/bushel land prices won't change much, and all farms are already factory farms.

I'd be more concerned about how many people are going to starve in China because they refuse to buy our products. China has a serious problem with a diseases infecting hogs right now. There are reports that over 50% of their pork production is going to have to be eliminated. That will be huge if true.

[CID1990]

For strategic industries?

Yes

I always have been in certain exigent circumstances and have said so here many times.


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So soybeans are sort of like big banks or deficits to conservatives.

As it has been said here before -

Doing nothing is the status quo. Everybody agrees that China is a currency manipulator and regularly engages in unfair trade practices which directly affect our own economy is adverse ways.

Nobody - and I mean nobody - knows how this will go. But no actual politician will try it, so it may be now or never. If twisting China’s arm will level the playing field - at least in the mid-term, then subsidizing industries which will inevitably suffer from a high tariff is an acceptable short term fix.

A side irony to all of this can be found if you go to Elizabeth Warren’s website and read her policy proposals on trade and industry. It is Trumpism with a bunch of SJW sweetener language thrown in.


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[kalm]

So soybeans are sort of like big banks or deficits to conservatives.

As it has been said here before -

Doing nothing is the status quo. Everybody agrees that China is a currency manipulator and regularly engages in unfair trade practices which directly affect our own economy is adverse ways.

Nobody - and I mean nobody - knows how this will go. But no actual politician will try it, so it may be now or never. If twisting China’s arm will level the playing field - at least in the mid-term, then subsidizing industries which will inevitably suffer from a high tariff is an acceptable short term fix.

A side irony to all of this can be found if you go to Elizabeth Warren’s website and read her policy proposals on trade and industry. It is Trumpism with a bunch of SJW sweetener language thrown in.


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I know and agree. I’ve been arguing this point with Smoot-Hawley Ganny for years. It’s just fun to sometimes find a chink in your armor.

[SDHornet]

Another gift to American oligarchs. They'll use this to foreclose on small farms, buy land at dirt-cheap prices, use it for factory farming, or just sit on the land to drive up value.

The divide keeps getting larger, but at some point you run out of sympathy for those who keep supporting conservative voodoo economics. Dumb and confident is a very dangerous combination.

Maybe ECB farming is different but there are very few small farms left in the midwest, land values have reached a pretty steady level and short of corn going to $7/bushel land prices won't change much, and all farms are already factory farms.

I'd be more concerned about how many people are going to starve in China because they refuse to buy our products. China has a serious problem with a diseases infecting hogs right now. There are reports that over 50% of their pork production is going to have to be eliminated. That will be huge if true.

I've also heard that a lot of land in China is not suitable for ag uses, and their building boom was put in some of the more ag friendly areas. Interesting to see how this all plays out.

Article from May '18:

SHANGHAI (Reuters) - China’s total arable land declined for a fourth consecutive year in 2017 as a result of new construction, natural disasters and environmental requirements, as well as agricultural production changes, the natural resources ministry said.

The Ministry of Natural Resources said the country’s total arable land fell to 134.86 million hectares, a decline of 60,900 hectares compared to the previous year.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-chin ... SKCN1IK059

[CID1990]

As it has been said here before -

Doing nothing is the status quo. Everybody agrees that China is a currency manipulator and regularly engages in unfair trade practices which directly affect our own economy is adverse ways.

Nobody - and I mean nobody - knows how this will go. But no actual politician will try it, so it may be now or never. If twisting China’s arm will level the playing field - at least in the mid-term, then subsidizing industries which will inevitably suffer from a high tariff is an acceptable short term fix.

A side irony to all of this can be found if you go to Elizabeth Warren’s website and read her policy proposals on trade and industry. It is Trumpism with a bunch of SJW sweetener language thrown in.


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I know and agree. I’ve been arguing this point with Smoot-Hawley Ganny for years. It’s just fun to sometimes find a chink in your armor.

Ok - explaining basic facts and common sense to 8 year olds is in fact something I am easily sucked into


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[CAA Flagship]

I know and agree. I’ve been arguing this point with Smoot-Hawley Ganny for years. It’s just fun to sometimes find a chink in your armor.

[SeattleGriz]

Another gift to American oligarchs. They'll use this to foreclose on small farms, buy land at dirt-cheap prices, use it for factory farming, or just sit on the land to drive up value.

The divide keeps getting larger, but at some point you run out of sympathy for those who keep supporting conservative voodoo economics. Dumb and confident is a very dangerous combination.

Maybe ECB farming is different but there are very few small farms left in the midwest, land values have reached a pretty steady level and short of corn going to $7/bushel land prices won't change much, and all farms are already factory farms.

I'd be more concerned about how many people are going to starve in China because they refuse to buy our products. China has a serious problem with a diseases infecting hogs right now. There are reports that over 50% of their pork production is going to have to be eliminated. That will be huge if true.

What do you consider a small farm? My wife and I grew up in Montana and most everybody still has their farms, but a good portion lease the land to their neighbors. Those that do the farming usually have around 3,000 acres to work with.

[JohnStOnge]

Just a reminder: Trump can't win this. If it was easy it'd have been done a long time ago as we've had Presidents that are way more capable than Trump. In fact every President we've had has been way more capable than Trump. The Chinese have an inherent advantage in that they don't have to worry about re-election. They can play the long game. Trump cannot.

Plus he's an idiot and they are smart. It's a mismatch.

[CAA Flagship]

Just a reminder: Trump can't win this. If it was easy it'd have been done a long time ago as we've had Presidents that are way more capable than Trump. In fact every President we've had has been way more capable than Trump. The Chinese have an inherent advantage in that they don't have to worry about re-election. They can play the long game. Trump cannot.

Plus he's an idiot and they are smart. It's a mismatch.

You clearly don't understand anything about the game that's being played. But feel free to continue to give us the play-by-play.

[JohnStOnge]

Just a reminder: Trump can't win this. If it was easy it'd have been done a long time ago as we've had Presidents that are way more capable than Trump. In fact every President we've had has been way more capable than Trump. The Chinese have an inherent advantage in that they don't have to worry about re-election. They can play the long game. Trump cannot.

Plus he's an idiot and they are smart. It's a mismatch.

You clearly don't understand anything about the game that's being played. But feel free to continue to give us the play-by-play.

He's going to lose. It's obvious. I understand enough about the game to know that Trump and the Republicans have to worry about elections and the Chinese do not. I also understand enough about the game to know that the US population is accustomed to getting stuff for low cost due to China. And it's not just toys and trinkets.

He's an idiot. And he's going to lose this one. Trying to bully the Chinese is not going to work.

[JohnStOnge]

BTW that does not mean I don't think he won't end up surrendering then claiming that he won.

[AZGrizFan]

You clearly don't understand anything about the game that's being played. But feel free to continue to give us the play-by-play.

He's going to lose. It's obvious. I understand enough about the game to know that Trump and the Republicans have to worry about elections and the Chinese do not. I also understand enough about the game to know that the US population is accustomed to getting stuff for low cost due to China. And it's not just toys and trinkets.

He's an idiot. And he's going to lose this one. Trying to bully the Chinese is not going to work.

I don’t even care that he loses. What I care is that he TRIED. All those “capable” presidents to come before him just bent over and took it up the ass for America instead of actually TRYING.

Your hatred runs so deep you can’t even see/admit that.

[Skjellyfetti]

BTW that does not mean I don't think he won't end up surrendering then claiming that he won.

Pretty sure that's the game being played.

Like North Korean denuclearization.

This will continue for about another year. China will concede something small... Trump will claim victory and get a boost during the general election. But, it won't be a concession of anything much. Doubtful even status quo ante. Red Hats will rejoice at the brilliance of the year long Trade War.

[AZGrizFan]

BTW that does not mean I don't think he won't end up surrendering then claiming that he won.

Pretty sure that's the game being played.

Like North Korean denuclearization.

This will continue for about another year. China will concede something small... Trump will claim victory and get a boost during the general election. But, it won't be a concession of anything much. Doubtful even status quo ante. Red Hats will rejoice at the brilliance of the year long Trade War.

YEah, because we’re all idiots, right?

[SDHornet]

He's going to lose. It's obvious. I understand enough about the game to know that Trump and the Republicans have to worry about elections and the Chinese do not. I also understand enough about the game to know that the US population is accustomed to getting stuff for low cost due to China. And it's not just toys and trinkets.

He's an idiot. And he's going to lose this one. Trying to bully the Chinese is not going to work.

I don’t even care that he loses. What I care is that he TRIED. All those “capable” presidents to come before him just bent over and took it up the ass for America instead of actually TRYING.

Your hatred runs so deep you can’t even see/admit that.

ORANGE MAN BAD!!!

[SDHornet]

BTW that does not mean I don't think he won't end up surrendering then claiming that he won.

Pretty sure that's the game being played.

Like North Korean denuclearization.

This will continue for about another year. China will concede something small... Trump will claim victory and get a boost during the general election. But, it won't be a concession of anything much. Doubtful even status quo ante. Red Hats will rejoice at the brilliance of the year long Trade War.

Meh, if that were the case he wouldn't have let the recent talks fall apart like they did...

...you know all for the sake of having a deal *cough Iran cough*

[Skjellyfetti]

He's going to lose. It's obvious. I understand enough about the game to know that Trump and the Republicans have to worry about elections and the Chinese do not. I also understand enough about the game to know that the US population is accustomed to getting stuff for low cost due to China. And it's not just toys and trinkets.

He's an idiot. And he's going to lose this one. Trying to bully the Chinese is not going to work.

I don’t even care that he loses. What I care is that he TRIED. All those “capable” presidents to come before him just bent over and took it up the ass for America instead of actually TRYING.

Your hatred runs so deep you can’t even see/admit that.

Trans-Pacific Partnership.

You may disagree with it. That's fine. But, that was certainly an attempt at countering China. And, it was what was formerly considered a conservative approach.

https://www.rpc.senate.gov/policy-paper ... obs-tpp-20

[AZGrizFan]

I don’t even care that he loses. What I care is that he TRIED. All those “capable” presidents to come before him just bent over and took it up the ass for America instead of actually TRYING.

Your hatred runs so deep you can’t even see/admit that.

Trans-Pacific Partnership.

You may disagree with it. That's fine. But, that was certainly an attempt at countering China. And, it was what was formerly considered a conservative approach.

https://www.rpc.senate.gov/policy-paper ... obs-tpp-20

So you point to something that has happened DURING Trump’s presidency as proof those other “capable” presidents did something?

[SDHornet]

Trans-Pacific Partnership.

You may disagree with it. That's fine. But, that was certainly an attempt at countering China. And, it was what was formerly considered a conservative approach.

https://www.rpc.senate.gov/policy-paper ... obs-tpp-20

So you point to something that has happened DURING Trump’s presidency as proof those other “capable” presidents did something?

[AZGrizFan]

Trans-Pacific Partnership.

You may disagree with it. That's fine. But, that was certainly an attempt at countering China. And, it was what was formerly considered a conservative approach.

https://www.rpc.senate.gov/policy-paper ... obs-tpp-20

So you point to something that has happened DURING Trump’s presidency as proof those other “capable” presidents did something?

I stand “somewhat” corrected. The original agreement was signed during Obama’s tenure, but never ratified. Trump withdrew the US from the agreement. BTW, your hero Bernie Sanders applauded the move...