Trump Tariffs = Tax Hike on all

[houndawg]

He's going to lose. It's obvious. I understand enough about the game to know that Trump and the Republicans have to worry about elections and the Chinese do not. I also understand enough about the game to know that the US population is accustomed to getting stuff for low cost due to China. And it's not just toys and trinkets.

He's an idiot. And he's going to lose this one. Trying to bully the Chinese is not going to work.

Why do you think he has been visiting the ASEAN nations? So they can replace China. As Cid stated earlier, China is out of the fake dog poop business and is trying to take over larger aspects of manufacturing like airplanes. People don't buy planes.

Secondly, do you really think Trump is negotiating? He has some pretty solid guys on his team.

They should be embarrassed at how those commies are schooling us on capitalism

[kalm]

I don’t even care that he loses. What I care is that he TRIED. All those “capable” presidents to come before him just bent over and took it up the ass for America instead of actually TRYING.

Your hatred runs so deep you can’t even see/admit that.

What i see is that all of us have benefitted from trade with China as it has been. We have NOT been on the losing end. The problem is Trump's view that a trade deficit...the fact that we buy more from another country than that country buys from us...is bad.

“Hey Bob. Don’t worry about losing that highly specialized manufacturing job that went to China. Yes, you might make half of what you used to now, selling vacuums door to door, but did you see those night stands on sale at Walmart? They’re only 39 bucks and they’ll last at least a couple years!”

[CAA Flagship]

What i see is that all of us have benefitted from trade with China as it has been. We have NOT been on the losing end. The problem is Trump's view that a trade deficit...the fact that we buy more from another country than that country buys from us...is bad.

“Hey Bob. Don’t worry about losing that highly specialized manufacturing job that went to China. Yes, you might make half of what you used to now, selling vacuums door to door, but did you see those night stands on sale at Walmart? They’re only 39 bucks and they’ll last at least a couple years!”

It's Bobby, dammit.

[JohnStOnge]

What i see is that all of us have benefitted from trade with China as it has been. We have NOT been on the losing end. The problem is Trump's view that a trade deficit...the fact that we buy more from another country than that country buys from us...is bad.

And there you go.
Please tell me again about how much you understand this trade war with China.

I apparently understand a lot more about it than you do. Please tell me how you are worse off by virtue of the trade situation with China. Do you think your flat screen TVs are more expensive as a result of it? Your mobile phones? Your computers? Your clothes? Your dishes? So on and so forth?

[JohnStOnge]

What i see is that all of us have benefitted from trade with China as it has been. We have NOT been on the losing end. The problem is Trump's view that a trade deficit...the fact that we buy more from another country than that country buys from us...is bad.

“Hey Bob. Don’t worry about losing that highly specialized manufacturing job that went to China. Yes, you might make half of what you used to now, selling vacuums door to door, but did you see those night stands on sale at Walmart? They’re only 39 bucks and they’ll last at least a couple years!”

The problem with that line of argument is that household income for US people is higher now, adjusted for inflation. than it was during what people view as the "Golden Years" of the US manufacturing economy. People, on average, are better off now financially than they were back during those perceived "Golden Years." The typical person living in the US now is better off financially than the typical person in the US was back in the 1950s, 1960s, etc.

[SeattleGriz]

Why do you think he has been visiting the ASEAN nations? So they can replace China. As Cid stated earlier, China is out of the fake dog poop business and is trying to take over larger aspects of manufacturing like airplanes. People don't buy planes.

Secondly, do you really think Trump is negotiating? He has some pretty solid guys on his team.

They should be embarrassed at how those commies are schooling us on capitalism

Yeah sure, if you consider negotiating up to the final product and then saying you won't agree to what you just agreed to, is called schooling.

[JohnStOnge]

What i see is that all of us have benefitted from trade with China as it has been. We have NOT been on the losing end. The problem is Trump's view that a trade deficit...the fact that we buy more from another country than that country buys from us...is bad.

John are you really that dense? The question isn't whether we're on the losing end, we've been on the losing end for a long, long time. The question is whether it's too late to turn it around.

Yes, we have benefitted as consumers of cheap products. We have not benefited from a manufacturing and innovation perspective. If a Chinese company wants to build a production facility in the US, they just need to follow the same guidelines that an American company would. If an American company wants to build a production facility in China, they need to partner with the Chinese and share their production methods. Soon after they start producing they will start seeing products that are more than just knock-offs of theirs being sold in China and elsewhere. That is not free trade.

I know all that. Nevertheless, the "typical" US resident is materially better off as a result of trade with China. We have not been losing. It's been a symbiotic relationship. The "typical" US resident has a higher income adjusted for inflation and more buying power now than the "typical" US resident had during the glory days of US industrialization. I am not going to go through the data showing that right now unless you ask me to "prove it" because I've discussed those data at length before in other threads in this forum. Hopefully you recall that. But it's true.

I am among those who think that being upset over a trade deficit with China under the current circumstances makes about as much sense as worrying about a trade deficit with Wal Mart because you spend your money there. We are getting things for the money we spend on Chinese goods and services. We are getting the goods and services at very good prices. And I'm not aware of any information to indicate that we are not continuing to be innovative. I think we have the problem described in the article at https://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2 ... -us-000509, but I don't think starting a trade war is a good way to address it.

[CAA Flagship]

From last Friday

phpBB [video]

[CAA Flagship]

phpBB [video]

[houndawg]

They should be embarrassed at how those commies are schooling us on capitalism

Yeah sure, if you consider negotiating up to the final product and then saying you won't agree to what you just agreed to, is called schooling.

Its just bidniz, and they're better at it than we are, even with a bidniz man in charge.

[UNI88]

John are you really that dense? The question isn't whether we're on the losing end, we've been on the losing end for a long, long time. The question is whether it's too late to turn it around.

Yes

Condensed for ease of reading.

[dbackjon]

https://www.ft.com/content/4f5cb6de-ba9 ... 884d3ea203

US-China trade war data belie Donald Trump’s bragging
One year in, Chinese trade surplus with the US has swollen


Between July 2018, when the US first imposed its tariffs, to the end of June this year, US exports to China slumped by $33bn, or 21 per cent of the total. In contrast, Chinese exports to the US grew by $4bn, or 1 per cent, according to Mr Shan.

All of this has created the exact outcome Mr Trump was determined to avoid. Far from contracting, the China trade surplus with the US lambasted by Mr Trump as “out of control” has swollen to even greater proportions. 

In this year’s first seven months, the surplus stood at $168bn in China’s favour.

The first reason for this is that the US consumers are loath to switch away from Chinese-made goods, particularly those manufactured by US companies such as Apple that have outsourced production to China, Mr Shan says. The surplus also suggests that US manufacturers in China have been slow to return home.

[CAA Flagship]

https://www.ft.com/content/4f5cb6de-ba9 ... 884d3ea203

US-China trade war data belie Donald Trump’s bragging
One year in, Chinese trade surplus with the US has swollen


Between July 2018, when the US first imposed its tariffs, to the end of June this year, US exports to China slumped by $33bn, or 21 per cent of the total. In contrast, Chinese exports to the US grew by $4bn, or 1 per cent, according to Mr Shan.

All of this has created the exact outcome Mr Trump was determined to avoid. Far from contracting, the China trade surplus with the US lambasted by Mr Trump as “out of control” has swollen to even greater proportions. 

In this year’s first seven months, the surplus stood at $168bn in China’s favour.

The first reason for this is that the US consumers are loath to switch away from Chinese-made goods, particularly those manufactured by US companies such as Apple that have outsourced production to China, Mr Shan says. The surplus also suggests that US manufacturers in China have been slow to return home.

OR.........it suggests that there was a lot of buying to try to beat the escalating tariffs.

[SDHornet]

https://www.ft.com/content/4f5cb6de-ba9 ... 884d3ea203

US-China trade war data belie Donald Trump’s bragging
One year in, Chinese trade surplus with the US has swollen


Between July 2018, when the US first imposed its tariffs, to the end of June this year, US exports to China slumped by $33bn, or 21 per cent of the total. In contrast, Chinese exports to the US grew by $4bn, or 1 per cent, according to Mr Shan.

All of this has created the exact outcome Mr Trump was determined to avoid. Far from contracting, the China trade surplus with the US lambasted by Mr Trump as “out of control” has swollen to even greater proportions. 

In this year’s first seven months, the surplus stood at $168bn in China’s favour.

The first reason for this is that the US consumers are loath to switch away from Chinese-made goods, particularly those manufactured by US companies such as Apple that have outsourced production to China, Mr Shan says. The surplus also suggests that US manufacturers in China have been slow to return home.

OR.........it suggests that there was a lot of buying to try to beat the escalating tariffs.

OR ORANGE MAN BAD!!!!

[JohnStOnge]

phpBB [video]

I get a kick out of the ironies associated with that video. First of all, they are interviewing this guy as a retail expert while citing him as the former Toys R Us CEO. Get the irony?

Also, throughout the thing it shows the stock market down and has banners about the market declining due to trade war fears.

[JohnStOnge]

Yes

Condensed for ease of reading.

In other words, you can't really rebut what I wrote.

[CAA Flagship]

OR.........it suggests that there was a lot of buying to try to beat the escalating tariffs.

OR ORANGE MAN BAD!!!!

[dbackjon]

https://www.ft.com/content/4f5cb6de-ba9 ... 884d3ea203

US-China trade war data belie Donald Trump’s bragging
One year in, Chinese trade surplus with the US has swollen


Between July 2018, when the US first imposed its tariffs, to the end of June this year, US exports to China slumped by $33bn, or 21 per cent of the total. In contrast, Chinese exports to the US grew by $4bn, or 1 per cent, according to Mr Shan.

All of this has created the exact outcome Mr Trump was determined to avoid. Far from contracting, the China trade surplus with the US lambasted by Mr Trump as “out of control” has swollen to even greater proportions. 

In this year’s first seven months, the surplus stood at $168bn in China’s favour.

The first reason for this is that the US consumers are loath to switch away from Chinese-made goods, particularly those manufactured by US companies such as Apple that have outsourced production to China, Mr Shan says. The surplus also suggests that US manufacturers in China have been slow to return home.

OR.........it suggests that there was a lot of buying to try to beat the escalating tariffs.

Any evidence to back that up? I am sure there is some of that, but no one is going to buy items they might use 2 years down the road - the American economy is not set for that, with the Just in Time mantra drilled in everyone's head. We pre-bought steel for buildings that were going to be started in the next few months before the first wave of tariffs, but no possible way for a building that is just breaking ground now.

[JohnStOnge]

OR.........it suggests that there was a lot of buying to try to beat the escalating tariffs.

Any evidence to back that up? I am sure there is some of that, but no one is going to buy items they might use 2 years down the road - the American economy is not set for that, with the Just in Time mantra drilled in everyone's head. We pre-bought steel for buildings that were going to be started in the next few months before the first wave of tariffs, but no possible way for a building that is just breaking ground now.

We can keep trying, Dback, but it's probably futile. Trump supporters are not interested in reality. I actually heard the thing about the US losing more in sales to China than China lost to the US on NPR today. But Trump supporters are basically cult members. We can hope that some day they come to their senses. But for now no reality is going to sway them. They are going to come up with some way to rationalize.

[UNI88]

Condensed for ease of reading.

In other words, you can't really rebut what I wrote.

No you can't see the forest for the trees. The long-term business impact of Chinese trade and development policies don't fit neatly into your little statistical model. It's about jobs, production and more than consumer satusfaction. We've been slowly losing ground for a while. Your inability to understand that doesn't mean it isn't happening.

The big question isn't whether we're losing, its whether we can turn things around.

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[UNI88]

Any evidence to back that up? I am sure there is some of that, but no one is going to buy items they might use 2 years down the road - the American economy is not set for that, with the Just in Time mantra drilled in everyone's head. We pre-bought steel for buildings that were going to be started in the next few months before the first wave of tariffs, but no possible way for a building that is just breaking ground now.

We can keep trying, Dback, but it's probably futile. Trump supporters are not interested in reality. I actually heard the thing about the US losing more in sales to China than China lost to the US on NPR today. But Trump supporters are basically cult members. We can hope that some day they come to their senses. But for now no reality is going to sway them. They are going to come up with some way to rationalize.

The role reversal and hypocracy over trade is funny. If Obama had done this, Donks would have been proclaiming his genius in sticking up for American workers while Conks would have been running screaming that it was the end of civilization.

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[ALPHAGRIZ1]

We can keep trying, Dback, but it's probably futile. Trump supporters are not interested in reality. I actually heard the thing about the US losing more in sales to China than China lost to the US on NPR today. But Trump supporters are basically cult members. We can hope that some day they come to their senses. But for now no reality is going to sway them. They are going to come up with some way to rationalize.

The role reversal and hypocracy over trade is funny. If Obama had done this, Donks would have been proclaiming his genius in sticking up for American workers while Conks would have been running screaming that it was the end of civilization.

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Bullshit, we love booming economies. Just havent had one since Reagan.



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[SDHornet]

We can keep trying, Dback, but it's probably futile. Trump supporters are not interested in reality. I actually heard the thing about the US losing more in sales to China than China lost to the US on NPR today. But Trump supporters are basically cult members. We can hope that some day they come to their senses. But for now no reality is going to sway them. They are going to come up with some way to rationalize.

The role reversal and hypocracy over trade is funny. If Obama had done this, Donks would have been proclaiming his genius in sticking up for American workers while Conks would have been running screaming that it was the end of civilization.

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One of the many paradigms that shifted overnight back in Nov '16. Border security being one of the more blatant reversals the donks pulled because Orange Man Bad.

[SDHornet]

The role reversal and hypocracy over trade is funny. If Obama had done this, Donks would have been proclaiming his genius in sticking up for American workers while Conks would have been running screaming that it was the end of civilization.

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Bullshit, we love booming economies. Just havent had one since Reagan.



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I've been trying to gather contractor quotes to fix a $20k-ish pipe repair at work (contacted at least 8 contractors). I finally talked one into making a field visit to see if they want the work. Hard times I tell you, hard times indeed.

[UNI88]

The role reversal and hypocracy over trade is funny. If Obama had done this, Donks would have been proclaiming his genius in sticking up for American workers while Conks would have been running screaming that it was the end of civilization.

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Bullshit, we love booming economies. Just havent had one since Reagan.



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I believe we had a booming economy during Slick Willy's presidency.

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