The Trump Whistleblower Extravaganza Thread

[SeattleGriz]

If you're planning on a smoking gun, don't hold your breath....

I’m not planning anything. I’m a spectator, just like you. I’m looking at the evidence as it’s presented. I’m trying to give Trump the benefit of the doubt but to me, and many other Republicans, it looks like Trump wasn’t acting in the best interest of the country.



But I’m sure the GOP has witnesses with first hand knowledge coming up to testify.


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How was he not acting in the best interest of the country?

[GannonFan]

As CoS, Mick has to know something.


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What's he going to know that we don't already know. I don't think there's a lot of doubt that Trump wanted the Biden connection in Ukraine to be investigated and I don't think there's a lot of doubt that he was dangling military aid in exchange. I think you can argue that Trump actually did think there was something nefarious there (and let's be honest, if it's not nefarious then it's certainly emblematic of the insidiousness of political cronyism that was/is the status quo in establishment politics) and you can certainly argue very well that Trump also saw it as a way of damaging a political rival. And really, other than being President (which is a big thing) it's not terribly in a different category than the whole Steele dossier was when parts of the GOP and then the Hillary campaign used foreign government sources to get political dirt on Trump, parts of which were used to launch a 2-3 year investigation during his Presidency.

Like I said before, there's no chance Trump gets removed from office (not by a GOP-led Senate in an election year where the only candidate the GOP has is the incumbent President). So impeachment ends up being neutered a bit. You can impeach him without fear of political turmoil because he's not going anywhere until the election. Impeachment, in that case, becomes a censure. An interesting angle in all of this is whether Trump is behaving/acting exactly as people thought he would when he was elected. I think you can make an observation that this is exactly what people thought Trump was/is. If that's the case, it really is overturning an election.

For me, I'm all in favor of letting the election decide what people want. I ain't voting for Trump, and never have or will, but I'm also realistic to know there are plenty of people that will. It's Mayor Pete or a throwaway vote for me. Again, assuming that Jill Stein really isn't a Russian proxy. Hillary has me all confused now, it's like there are Russians everywhere.

[SeattleGriz]

As CoS, Mick has to know something.


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What's he going to know that we don't already know. I don't think there's a lot of doubt that Trump wanted the Biden connection in Ukraine to be investigated and I don't think there's a lot of doubt that he was dangling military aid in exchange. I think you can argue that Trump actually did think there was something nefarious there (and let's be honest, if it's not nefarious then it's certainly emblematic of the insidiousness of political cronyism that was/is the status quo in establishment politics) and you can certainly argue very well that Trump also saw it as a way of damaging a political rival. And really, other than being President (which is a big thing) it's not terribly in a different category than the whole Steele dossier was when parts of the GOP and then the Hillary campaign used foreign government sources to get political dirt on Trump, parts of which were used to launch a 2-3 year investigation during his Presidency.

Like I said before, there's no chance Trump gets removed from office (not by a GOP-led Senate in an election year where the only candidate the GOP has is the incumbent President). So impeachment ends up being neutered a bit. You can impeach him without fear of political turmoil because he's not going anywhere until the election. Impeachment, in that case, becomes a censure. An interesting angle in all of this is whether Trump is behaving/acting exactly as people thought he would when he was elected. I think you can make an observation that this is exactly what people thought Trump was/is. If that's the case, it really is overturning an election.

For me, I'm all in favor of letting the election decide what people want. I ain't voting for Trump, and never have or will, but I'm also realistic to know there are plenty of people that will. It's Mayor Pete or a throwaway vote for me. Again, assuming that Jill Stein really isn't a Russian proxy. Hillary has me all confused now, it's like there are Russians everywhere.

I've been saying this too.

Biden sealed his fate when he ran his mouth.

[Ibanez]

I’m not planning anything. I’m a spectator, just like you. I’m looking at the evidence as it’s presented. I’m trying to give Trump the benefit of the doubt but to me, and many other Republicans, it looks like Trump wasn’t acting in the best interest of the country.



But I’m sure the GOP has witnesses with first hand knowledge coming up to testify.


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How was he not acting in the best interest of the country?

How is giving aide in return for an investigation of a political rival good for America and NOT to his benefit?

If Trump wanted an investigation we have the DOJ.


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[Ibanez]

As CoS, Mick has to know something.


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What's he going to know that we don't already know. I don't think there's a lot of doubt that Trump wanted the Biden connection in Ukraine to be investigated and I don't think there's a lot of doubt that he was dangling military aid in exchange. I think you can argue that Trump actually did think there was something nefarious there (and let's be honest, if it's not nefarious then it's certainly emblematic of the insidiousness of political cronyism that was/is the status quo in establishment politics) and you can certainly argue very well that Trump also saw it as a way of damaging a political rival. And really, other than being President (which is a big thing) it's not terribly in a different category than the whole Steele dossier was when parts of the GOP and then the Hillary campaign used foreign government sources to get political dirt on Trump, parts of which were used to launch a 2-3 year investigation during his Presidency.

Like I said before, there's no chance Trump gets removed from office (not by a GOP-led Senate in an election year where the only candidate the GOP has is the incumbent President). So impeachment ends up being neutered a bit. You can impeach him without fear of political turmoil because he's not going anywhere until the election. Impeachment, in that case, becomes a censure. An interesting angle in all of this is whether Trump is behaving/acting exactly as people thought he would when he was elected. I think you can make an observation that this is exactly what people thought Trump was/is. If that's the case, it really is overturning an election.

For me, I'm all in favor of letting the election decide what people want. I ain't voting for Trump, and never have or will, but I'm also realistic to know there are plenty of people that will. It's Mayor Pete or a throwaway vote for me. Again, assuming that Jill Stein really isn't a Russian proxy. Hillary has me all confused now, it's like there are Russians everywhere.

Apparently second hand knowledge that’s been corroborated means nothing. That’s why Bolton and Mulvaney are needed.


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[SeattleGriz]

How was he not acting in the best interest of the country?

How is giving aide in return for an investigation of a political rival good for America and NOT to his benefit?

If Trump wanted an investigation we have the DOJ.


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And hasn't Rudy been on record as saying the DOJ wasn't receptive, and thus why the back channel to him?

Also stated Biden sealed his fate and opened the door for Trump. Anticorruption investigation. Trump is rooting out corruption.

[CID1990]

How did they screw the pooch on Bolton? Not subpoenaing him?

Yes.

They still might have him testify but they must first subpoena him so he can challenge on privilege, have that challenge defeated, then testify. That clears him of liability on a couple fronts.


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[SDHornet]

No, we don't know it. We know there is a whistleblower identification thing going around the internet but it has not been verified. It's bad either way. I'm sure Schiff knows who has been pointed to on the internet. But that does not necessarily mean that he has verification of who the whistleblower is.

I thought it was established by the IG that the whistleblower sought advice from Schiff (or his staff), am I mistaken?

I have a hard time believing that his staff didn't tell Schiff who it was.

The "whistleblower" met with Schiff's staff prior to the complaint being filed.

Rep. Adam Schiff, chair of the House intelligence committee, wrongly implied that his committee had no contact with the whistleblower before receiving the complaint. Schiff claimed, “We have not spoken directly with the whistleblower,” when the whistleblower had in fact reached out to a committee aide before filing a complaint.

https://www.factcheck.org/2019/10/schif ... r-contact/

[SDHornet]

Politicians acting in their own self interests..sounds like a President asking a foreign power to investigate his political opponent in exchange for military aid.

Or every politician ever.

Right. Exactly what The Dems asked of Ukraine in 2016. Only NOW it's impeachable?

Exactly. If anyone thinks this is a separate issue (or a Biden only issue) from the Russia Collusion hoax then they aren't paying attention.

[SDHornet]

For me, I'm all in favor of letting the election decide what people want. I ain't voting for Trump, and never have or will, but I'm also realistic to know there are plenty of people that will. It's Mayor Pete or a throwaway vote for me. Again, assuming that Jill Stein really isn't a Russian proxy. Hillary has me all confused now, it's like there are Russians everywhere.

Don't worry, jelly has been confused and thinking Russians (and now Ukrainians) have been everywhere since late 2016.

[UNI88]

How is giving aide in return for an investigation of a political rival good for America and NOT to his benefit?

If Trump wanted an investigation we have the DOJ.


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And hasn't Rudy been on record as saying the DOJ wasn't receptive, and thus why the back channel to him?

Also stated Biden sealed his fate and opened the door for Trump. Anticorruption investigation. Trump is rooting out corruption.

Trump is rooting out corruption? He's a NY real estate developer, he is to corruption what Satan is to evil. Is he using his extensive experience in corruption to help root it out?

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[houndawg]

That’s been corroborated by events, Trump, Mulvaney and other people. Yeah.

And we have heard no defense from the GOP. That’s curious. They can’t seem to defend abuse of power.

Again - if Trump would let people testify in his defense he could clear up this whole mess. I wonder why he doesn’t want to produce witnesses who were on the call.


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Yep no evidence of a crime.

Every move they've made so far is evidence they're hiding something. If they weren't this would have been over long ago.

Like how Hillary put the smackdown on the Benghazi witch hunt until Trey Gowdey was forced to say on nation-wide TV that there was nothing there. Remember that one?

[houndawg]

Looks like they are going to have to flip Rudy or this thing is going to backfire.

House Dems already screwed up with Bolton and now he isn’t testifying. I’m assuming that out of all the players so far, Bolton and Giuliani are the only ones that would have direct knowledge of a directive from Trump


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Didn't Susan MacDougal go to jail for a year over ignoring a subpoena from Comgress? Why not let Rudy G and Bolton cool off for a while?

[CID1990]

Looks like they are going to have to flip Rudy or this thing is going to backfire.

House Dems already screwed up with Bolton and now he isn’t testifying. I’m assuming that out of all the players so far, Bolton and Giuliani are the only ones that would have direct knowledge of a directive from Trump


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Didn't Susan MacDougal go to jail for a year over ignoring a subpoena from Comgress? Why not let Rudy G and Bolton cool off for a while?

Let me explain it to you Corky since you’re a little slow on the uptake

Bolton wants to testify

He can’t do it freely because the WH will assert privilege, which for all intents and purposes makes anything he says in session “classified”.

So the House needs to issue a subpoena like yesterday so the WH can claim privilege. Then it can go to court where the assertion of privilege can be denied because deliberations over potential “high crimes and misdemeanors” is not privileged.

Then Bolton can testify about pretty much anything he wants to. But Schiff fvcks up every day he doesn’t issue a subpoena because only then does the thing start moving.

You understand now or do I need to get Reek to chart you a goddamn graph?


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[SeattleGriz]

And hasn't Rudy been on record as saying the DOJ wasn't receptive, and thus why the back channel to him?

Also stated Biden sealed his fate and opened the door for Trump. Anticorruption investigation. Trump is rooting out corruption.

Trump is rooting out corruption? He's a NY real estate developer, he is to corruption what Satan is to evil. Is he using his extensive experience in corruption to help root it out?

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I think you missed what I have previously said. Pretty obvious Trump is using the fact that Biden bragged about getting Shokin fired as his means for "rooting out corruption".

Quid Pro Joe should have kept his mouth shut.

Pretty obvious by the lack of interest in the Bidens, that this is one of those "for me, but not thee" arrangements the political class was supposed to get away with.

[kalm]

Didn't Susan MacDougal go to jail for a year over ignoring a subpoena from Comgress? Why not let Rudy G and Bolton cool off for a while?

Let me explain it to you Corky since you’re a little slow on the uptake

Bolton wants to testify

He can’t do it freely because the WH will assert privilege, which for all intents and purposes makes anything he says in session “classified”.

So the House needs to issue a subpoena like yesterday so the WH can claim privilege. Then it can go to court where the assertion of privilege can be denied because deliberations over potential “high crimes and misdemeanors” is not privileged.

Then Bolton can testify about pretty much anything he wants to. But Schiff fvcks up every day he doesn’t issue a subpoena because only then does the thing start moving.

You understand now or do I need to get Reek to chart you a goddamn graph?



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Hence the phrase “serial bunglers” to describe the Democratic Party...

[CID1990]

Let me explain it to you Corky since you’re a little slow on the uptake

Bolton wants to testify

He can’t do it freely because the WH will assert privilege, which for all intents and purposes makes anything he says in session “classified”.

So the House needs to issue a subpoena like yesterday so the WH can claim privilege. Then it can go to court where the assertion of privilege can be denied because deliberations over potential “high crimes and misdemeanors” is not privileged.

Then Bolton can testify about pretty much anything he wants to. But Schiff fvcks up every day he doesn’t issue a subpoena because only then does the thing start moving.

You understand now or do I need to get Reek to chart you a goddamn graph?



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Hence the phrase “serial bunglers” to describe the Democratic Party...

There’s plenty of that to go around unfortunately

I actually sympathize with them (a little)

How do you really impeach a guy and maintain the political high ground when the Prez’s eventual defense is going to be “Yeah I did it. So what?”.... and nobody is going to switch sides over it

Think of it as a wash.... I think voters will ultimately break on his record. If he successfully touts it in 2020 ... the economy, jobs, a new NAFTA, China, etc - I think he’ll win the Rust Belt again

But the Dems are going to give him a huge assist if they don’t come off the “free sh1t for all” platform


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[CID1990]

Let me explain it to you Corky since you’re a little slow on the uptake

Bolton wants to testify

He can’t do it freely because the WH will assert privilege, which for all intents and purposes makes anything he says in session “classified”.

So the House needs to issue a subpoena like yesterday so the WH can claim privilege. Then it can go to court where the assertion of privilege can be denied because deliberations over potential “high crimes and misdemeanors” is not privileged.

Then Bolton can testify about pretty much anything he wants to. But Schiff fvcks up every day he doesn’t issue a subpoena because only then does the thing start moving.

You understand now or do I need to get Reek to chart you a goddamn graph?



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Hence the phrase “serial bunglers” to describe the Democratic Party...

There’s plenty of that to go around unfortunately

I actually sympathize with them (a little)

How do you really impeach a guy and maintain the political high ground when the Prez’s eventual defense is going to be “Yeah I did it. So what?”.... and nobody is going to switch sides over it

Think of it as a wash.... I think voters will ultimately break on his record. If he successfully touts it in 2020 ... the economy, jobs, a new NAFTA, China, etc - I think he’ll win the Rust Belt again

But the Dems are going to give him a huge assist if they don’t come off the “free sh1t for all” platform


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[Ivytalk]

When I was in practice, it was not unusual for business executives to request subpoenas to testify, particularly in sensitive cases involving their own firms. But old Adam Schitt wants to do it the hard way.

[Ibanez]

How is giving aide in return for an investigation of a political rival good for America and NOT to his benefit?

If Trump wanted an investigation we have the DOJ.


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And hasn't Rudy been on record as saying the DOJ wasn't receptive, and thus why the back channel to him?

Also stated Biden sealed his fate and opened the door for Trump. Anticorruption investigation. Trump is rooting out corruption.

If TRUMPS DOJ doesn’t want to investigate it, that might tell you something.


But sure, let’s have a foreign country meddle in our elections. That’s a shitty defense.


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[houndawg]

Didn't Susan MacDougal go to jail for a year over ignoring a subpoena from Comgress? Why not let Rudy G and Bolton cool off for a while?

Let me explain it to you Corky since you’re a little slow on the uptake

Bolton wants to testify

He can’t do it freely because the WH will assert privilege, which for all intents and purposes makes anything he says in session “classified”.

So the House needs to issue a subpoena like yesterday so the WH can claim privilege. Then it can go to court where the assertion of privilege can be denied because deliberations over potential “high crimes and misdemeanors” is not privileged.

Then Bolton can testify about pretty much anything he wants to. But Schiff fvcks up every day he doesn’t issue a subpoena because only then does the thing start moving.

You understand now or do I need to get Reek to chart you a goddamn graph?


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We aren't all professional bureaucrats. You live in a different world.


Maybe Schiff isn't in a hurry. Hell, he should be doing his best to keep Jordan and Nunes talking.

[Ibanez]

And hasn't Rudy been on record as saying the DOJ wasn't receptive, and thus why the back channel to him?

Also stated Biden sealed his fate and opened the door for Trump. Anticorruption investigation. Trump is rooting out corruption.

Trump is rooting out corruption? He's a NY real estate developer, he is to corruption what Satan is to evil. Is he using his extensive experience in corruption to help root it out?

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That comment made me chuckle. Trump is the epitome of corruption. Just look at the company he keeps and his well documented business practices.


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[houndawg]

Hence the phrase “serial bunglers” to describe the Democratic Party...

There’s plenty of that to go around unfortunately

I actually sympathize with them (a little)

How do you really impeach a guy and maintain the political high ground when the Prez’s eventual defense is going to be “Yeah I did it. So what?”.... and nobody is going to switch sides over it

Think of it as a wash.... I think voters will ultimately break on his record. If he successfully touts it in 2020 ... the economy, jobs, a new NAFTA, China, etc - I think he’ll win the Rust Belt again

But the Dems are going to give him a huge assist if they don’t come off the “free sh1t for all” platform


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The only people getting free shit are the war pigs - "free shit for all" is just letting some other snouts into the trough

[Ibanez]

Trump is rooting out corruption? He's a NY real estate developer, he is to corruption what Satan is to evil. Is he using his extensive experience in corruption to help root it out?

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I think you missed what I have previously said. Pretty obvious Trump is using the fact that Biden bragged about getting Shokin fired as his means for "rooting out corruption".

Quid Pro Joe should have kept his mouth shut.

Pretty obvious by the lack of interest in the Bidens, that this is one of those "for me, but not thee" arrangements the political class was supposed to get away with.

How is investigating that in the interest of the US with respect to our Ukraine foreign policy?

Not a single person here or anywhere has made a logical defense or explanation. I wonder why. Perhaps investigating a private citizen has no impact on US security or foreign policy. Perhaps investigating Biden will have no impact on our ability to help Ukraine protect itself.


And does the GOP honestly believe that because the aid was eventually released, Ukraine didn’t make the announcements, etc...that the requests weren’t wrong? I’m not keen on Castro’s analogies but he makes a good point - crimes that were attempted are still crimes regardless of the outcome.


CID has said it well and I’ll reiterate - Schiff screwed up by not getting Bolton. That should’ve started on Day 1 since they knew it’d be a fight.

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[SeattleGriz]

And hasn't Rudy been on record as saying the DOJ wasn't receptive, and thus why the back channel to him?

Also stated Biden sealed his fate and opened the door for Trump. Anticorruption investigation. Trump is rooting out corruption.

If TRUMPS DOJ doesn’t want to investigate it, that might tell you something.


But sure, let’s have a foreign country meddle in our elections. That’s a shitty defense.


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Trump's DOJ. That's the issue. Who in Trump's DOJ refused to speak to the Ukrainians?

This is just like this whole debacle. Careerist officials believing the American public elected them.