Of course not, Droney McPeaceprize won the Nobel...duh93henfan wrote:Oddly, Democrats never had a problem with the 3,797 people, including 324 civilians, that Obama killed with 542 drones without consulting Congress.Baldy wrote: That's exactly what they're doing.
Including a couple of American citizens. I guess there's an asterisk on the 5th Amendment.93henfan wrote:Oddly, Democrats never had a problem with the 3,797 people, including 324 civilians, that Obama killed with 542 drones without consulting Congress.Baldy wrote: That's exactly what they're doing.
They don’t need congressional approval for anything...And yes, Trump fanbois...the Democrats are guilty as well.CID1990 wrote:I obviously wasn’t in on the intel briefing but I think there may be something to what Mike Lee was saying -SDHornet wrote:You know it's bad when little Marco is on board: Or maybe he is just your standard neocon. You choose.
He wants good intel that Soleimani was orchestrating an imminent attack. If he says the intel on that wasn’t compelling then I’d take him on his word. I suspect the evidence was circumstantial at best
But - it is well established that Soleimani is responsible for numerous American deaths over the last several years, and that the storming of the US Embassy (legitimately accredited Embassy in Iraq) which was happening near simultaneously was being orchestrated by Quds Force supplied militias.
The guy is Iran’s Reinhard Heydrich and given his activities he’s at least as legitimate a target as some Yemeni American citizen spouting death to America on the internets.
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Sure they do klam - and I’ve said it before.. all they need to do is deauthorize the WPA and pull our troops out of those countries like Iraq who don’t want us there (until the next caliphate pops up)kalm wrote:They don’t need congressional approval for anything...And yes, Trump fanbois...the Democrats are guilty as well.CID1990 wrote:
I obviously wasn’t in on the intel briefing but I think there may be something to what Mike Lee was saying -
He wants good intel that Soleimani was orchestrating an imminent attack. If he says the intel on that wasn’t compelling then I’d take him on his word. I suspect the evidence was circumstantial at best
But - it is well established that Soleimani is responsible for numerous American deaths over the last several years, and that the storming of the US Embassy (legitimately accredited Embassy in Iraq) which was happening near simultaneously was being orchestrated by Quds Force supplied militias.
The guy is Iran’s Reinhard Heydrich and given his activities he’s at least as legitimate a target as some Yemeni American citizen spouting death to America on the internets.
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Fuck the constitution.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... e=facebook
SDHornet wrote:You know it's bad when little Marco is on board: Or maybe he is just your standard neocon. You choose.
Trut so pure and the root cause of why we've been at war continuously for going on 20 years now.CID1990 wrote:Sure they do klam - and I’ve said it before.. all they need to do is deauthorize the WPA and pull our troops out of those countries like Iraq who don’t want us there (until the next caliphate pops up)kalm wrote:
They don’t need congressional approval for anything...And yes, Trump fanbois...the Democrats are guilty as well.
Fuck the constitution.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... e=facebook
Congresscritters willingly have given away their warmaking and foreign policy powers to the executive over the years- because they don’t want to go home to Peoria and own their votes on those things
So we wind up with “deals” instead of treaties, and open ended military actions instead of declared wars.
I’d love to see people like Mike Lee or Dan Crenshaw lead a push to take those powers back - but they’ll never get it done. It is much easier to criticize the executive for those decisions than make them themselves. Hell, they can even have it both ways... they can be for it before they are against it
Just like they can be fine with us having an Embassy in Baghdad being stormed by Iranian stooge militias but have a problem with us whacking the guy responsible for it
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Have folks started blaming Trump yet because he "started this and forced the Iranians' hand"?CID1990 wrote:I think the most likely scenario was an Iranian who was trained by a half-trained Iranian who was trained by another half-trained Iranian who was trained by a Russian contractor probably mistook the radar return for a bogey and pulled the trigger
That’s really the only way you can shoot down a commercial airliner squawking a commercial airliner transponder code
(Do not ascribe to malice that which can be adequately explained as incompetence)
89Hen wrote:Have folks started blaming Trump yet because he "started this and forced the Iranians' hand"?CID1990 wrote:I think the most likely scenario was an Iranian who was trained by a half-trained Iranian who was trained by another half-trained Iranian who was trained by a Russian contractor probably mistook the radar return for a bogey and pulled the trigger
That’s really the only way you can shoot down a commercial airliner squawking a commercial airliner transponder code
(Do not ascribe to malice that which can be adequately explained as incompetence)
CID1990 wrote:Sure they do klam - and I’ve said it before.. all they need to do is deauthorize the WPA and pull our troops out of those countries like Iraq who don’t want us there (until the next caliphate pops up)kalm wrote:
They don’t need congressional approval for anything...And yes, Trump fanbois...the Democrats are guilty as well.
Fuck the constitution.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... e=facebook
Congresscritters willingly have given away their warmaking and foreign policy powers to the executive over the years- because they don’t want to go home to Peoria and own their votes on those things
So we wind up with “deals” instead of treaties, and open ended military actions instead of declared wars.
I’d love to see people like Mike Lee or Dan Crenshaw lead a push to take those powers back - but they’ll never get it done. It is much easier to criticize the executive for those decisions than make them themselves. Hell, they can even have it both ways... they can be for it before they are against it
Just like they can be fine with us having an Embassy in Baghdad being stormed by Iranian stooge militias but have a problem with us whacking the guy responsible for it
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I know plenty of vets who are just as interventionist as Lindseykalm wrote:CID1990 wrote:
Sure they do klam - and I’ve said it before.. all they need to do is deauthorize the WPA and pull our troops out of those countries like Iraq who don’t want us there (until the next caliphate pops up)
Congresscritters willingly have given away their warmaking and foreign policy powers to the executive over the years- because they don’t want to go home to Peoria and own their votes on those things
So we wind up with “deals” instead of treaties, and open ended military actions instead of declared wars.
I’d love to see people like Mike Lee or Dan Crenshaw lead a push to take those powers back - but they’ll never get it done. It is much easier to criticize the executive for those decisions than make them themselves. Hell, they can even have it both ways... they can be for it before they are against it
Just like they can be fine with us having an Embassy in Baghdad being stormed by Iranian stooge militias but have a problem with us whacking the guy responsible for it
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
At least we’re seeing more vets elected to Congress from both parties. Maybe some slim hope?
Read JSO's post at the top of the page.89Hen wrote:Have folks started blaming Trump yet because he "started this and forced the Iranians' hand"?CID1990 wrote:I think the most likely scenario was an Iranian who was trained by a half-trained Iranian who was trained by another half-trained Iranian who was trained by a Russian contractor probably mistook the radar return for a bogey and pulled the trigger
That’s really the only way you can shoot down a commercial airliner squawking a commercial airliner transponder code
(Do not ascribe to malice that which can be adequately explained as incompetence)
Me too. But there are more than few good ones out there, Cynical Cidney. Jeez!CID1990 wrote:I know plenty of vets who are just as interventionist as Lindseykalm wrote:
At least we’re seeing more vets elected to Congress from both parties. Maybe some slim hope?
Theyre all over my facebooks ... I went to school with quite a few of them
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As good as they may be, I don't think we'll see a reversal of that capitulation in our lifetimes.kalm wrote:Me too. But there are more than few good ones out there, Cynical Cidney. Jeez!CID1990 wrote:
I know plenty of vets who are just as interventionist as Lindsey
Theyre all over my facebooks ... I went to school with quite a few of them
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mainejeff2 wrote:At least Dems have a poll.....Republicans won't allow anyone else to run against Trump.SDHornet wrote:
Here you go bud. And yeah, I loled when this came across on the social media.
When you're king of the hill.mainejeff2 wrote:At least Dems have a poll.....Republicans won't allow anyone else to run against Trump.
Sure, I remember the real tense 2012 Democratic nomination for President when the incumbent Obama had to face, well, er, I don't know who he faced. I dare you to come up with a name without googling it. I googled it and didn't even know who the people were. Oh, and Obama was the unanimous choice as well, zero delegates went for anyone else. That's what incumbency looks like anymore.mainejeff2 wrote:At least Dems have a poll.....Republicans won't allow anyone else to run against Trump.SDHornet wrote:
Here you go bud. And yeah, I loled when this came across on the social media.
I have not researched the thing about us putting sanctions on the Japanese. But it could be true that if we hae not done it there would have been no Pearl Harbor.CID1990 wrote:This is as good a place as any to leave this:JohnStOnge wrote:BTW, while it might work out in the long run, all this stuff that's been going on with Iran is a result of the posture Trump decided to take. HIs decision to have the united states renege on the deal and his "maximum pressure" approach. The increase in Iranian proxy attacks. The attacks on tankers in the Persian Gulf. And, yes, this downing of an airliner. Yes, the Iranians did it. But none of this stuff would be happening if Trump hadn't decided to do the things he did. Right now, all things Iran are worse than they were.
Maybe in the long run they will be better. But for Trump to try to pass responsibility for the current instability off as Obama's fault is pretty bad.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... ks/604642/
“Correcting for subconscious bias isn’t easy, but at the very least, observers should be aware of the Trump effect.”
You are no different than the “if we hadn’t put crushing restrictions on the Japanese they never would have bombed Pearl Harbor” crowd
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All of that happened because Trump made the decision to take the US out of the deal it made with Iran. Things between the US and Iran had calmed down a lot. All the stuff that has been happening is related to a decision Trump made early on. Bottom line: It is perfectly reasonable to say that if Trump had left things with respect to Iran alone after he took office that civilian airliner would not have been shot down yesterday.SDHornet wrote:So JSO really came on here spewing msm talking points about how this whole crisis was brought about by Trump so it's his fault?
Wow...just wow...yeah let's ignore that their proxies attacked...err I guess JSO would call it "protest"... an embassy. JFC the delusion on the left.
If Obama hadn't made a shitty nuclear deal with Iran, Trump would not have had to withdraw from it. That Ukrainian airliner would still be flying.JohnStOnge wrote:All of that happened because Trump made the decision to take the US out of the deal it made with Iran. Things between the US and Iran had calmed down a lot. All the stuff that has been happening is related to a decision Trump made early on. Bottom line: It is perfectly reasonable to say that if Trump had left things with respect to Iran alone after he took office that civilian airliner would not have been shot down yesterday.SDHornet wrote:So JSO really came on here spewing msm talking points about how this whole crisis was brought about by Trump so it's his fault?
Wow...just wow...yeah let's ignore that their proxies attacked...err I guess JSO would call it "protest"... an embassy. JFC the delusion on the left.
All things Iran are worse right now than they were when Trump took office. And the situation is directly related to decisions Trump made. Now, it may turn out that things are better in the long run. But what's going on right now is not Obama's fault. Trump has created the current situation.
ORANGE MAN BAD!!!GannonFan wrote:Sure, I remember the real tense 2012 Democratic nomination for President when the incumbent Obama had to face, well, er, I don't know who he faced. I dare you to come up with a name without googling it. I googled it and didn't even know who the people were. Oh, and Obama was the unanimous choice as well, zero delegates went for anyone else. That's what incumbency looks like anymore.mainejeff2 wrote:
At least Dems have a poll.....Republicans won't allow anyone else to run against Trump.
The Japs were well into their aggression in East Asia well before the US placed sanctions (an embargo) in 1941. And if they didn't bomb PH, they would have claimed the entire Pacific Rim including Australia and likely even India. So I guess by your broke dick logic you would consider this a better alternative similar to letting Iran run roughshod via their proxy wars and continue to let US embassies get over run. Mmkay.JohnStOnge wrote:I have not researched the thing about us putting sanctions on the Japanese. But it could be true that if we hae not done it there would have been no Pearl Harbor.CID1990 wrote:
This is as good a place as any to leave this:
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... ks/604642/
“Correcting for subconscious bias isn’t easy, but at the very least, observers should be aware of the Trump effect.”
You are no different than the “if we hadn’t put crushing restrictions on the Japanese they never would have bombed Pearl Harbor” crowd
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All sorts of other questions come up if that is the case. Doesn't necessarily mean we were not justified in imposing the sanctions.
Like I said: It could be that in the long run history will show that what Trump has been doing made things turn out for the better. But as a matter of cause and effect, the current tension is related to a series of decisions Trump has made. I think it's completely fair to say that it's very likely that if Trump had never made the decision to pull the US out of the deal that airliner would never have been shot down yesterday.
You mean that same deal that gave Iran billions of dollars to put towards their proxy wars and weapons development? Yeah, great strategy.JohnStOnge wrote:All of that happened because Trump made the decision to take the US out of the deal it made with Iran. Things between the US and Iran had calmed down a lot. All the stuff that has been happening is related to a decision Trump made early on. Bottom line: It is perfectly reasonable to say that if Trump had left things with respect to Iran alone after he took office that civilian airliner would not have been shot down yesterday.SDHornet wrote:So JSO really came on here spewing msm talking points about how this whole crisis was brought about by Trump so it's his fault?
Wow...just wow...yeah let's ignore that their proxies attacked...err I guess JSO would call it "protest"... an embassy. JFC the delusion on the left.
All things Iran are worse right now than they were when Trump took office. And the situation is directly related to decisions Trump made. Now, it may turn out that things are better in the long run. But what's going on right now is not Obama's fault. Trump has created the current situation.
Actually it is Great Britain’s fault for creating Iraq with a Hashemite royalty.JohnStOnge wrote:All of that happened because Trump made the decision to take the US out of the deal it made with Iran. Things between the US and Iran had calmed down a lot. All the stuff that has been happening is related to a decision Trump made early on. Bottom line: It is perfectly reasonable to say that if Trump had left things with respect to Iran alone after he took office that civilian airliner would not have been shot down yesterday.SDHornet wrote:So JSO really came on here spewing msm talking points about how this whole crisis was brought about by Trump so it's his fault?
Wow...just wow...yeah let's ignore that their proxies attacked...err I guess JSO would call it "protest"... an embassy. JFC the delusion on the left.
All things Iran are worse right now than they were when Trump took office. And the situation is directly related to decisions Trump made. Now, it may turn out that things are better in the long run. But what's going on right now is not Obama's fault. Trump has created the current situation.
Yes, things were sooo calm.JohnStOnge wrote:All of that happened because Trump made the decision to take the US out of the deal it made with Iran. Things between the US and Iran had calmed down a lot. All the stuff that has been happening is related to a decision Trump made early on. Bottom line: It is perfectly reasonable to say that if Trump had left things with respect to Iran alone after he took office that civilian airliner would not have been shot down yesterday.SDHornet wrote:So JSO really came on here spewing msm talking points about how this whole crisis was brought about by Trump so it's his fault?
Wow...just wow...yeah let's ignore that their proxies attacked...err I guess JSO would call it "protest"... an embassy. JFC the delusion on the left.
All things Iran are worse right now than they were when Trump took office. And the situation is directly related to decisions Trump made. Now, it may turn out that things are better in the long run. But what's going on right now is not Obama's fault. Trump has created the current situation.
Well it's Obama's fault for getting us in the deal in the first place. (see how this works?JohnStOnge wrote: All of that happened because Trump made the decision to take the US out of the deal it made with Iran.
)
