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[UNI88]

We do need to seriously evaluate a system where Americans are more productive than ever before in history
and Corporate America is making more money than ever before

1) and wages are flat
2) homes are more expensive than ever
3) wages are flat
4) College Education is more expensive then ever
5) Wages are flat
6) healthcare is broken
8) we're the world police at an unreasonably high expense
9) Our infrastructure is below the entirety of Europe and Japan

This seems like something should change
and Trump obsessed with Deregulation and Wall Street profits

He's not "The Answer" to a crumbling America
We're not Number one in anything - but corporate profits, guns, bombs and global military bases

We trail in
Middle class wages
Infrastructure hardware
Infrastructure Technology
Healthcare
Education

I can agree with all of that but I don't think that the answer is a lurch to the left. The answer involves both sides working together but both are so certain of the righteousness of their cause that they refuse to listen to the other.

[∞∞∞]

Oh lord love that argument: "If you don't like it then leave." Yeah that's always healthy...give up if you don't like something instead of improving it.

I've said it many times now: America is my friends, my neighbors, my family, my coworkers, my teachers and doctors and accountants, etc. The Constitution isn't America. The land isn't America. The history isn't America. The people are America. That's why I love it.

But you're willing to risk destroying it in order to improve it?

I mean the short answer is yes. I'm more radical of course in that I support the dissolution of the federal government (aka. United States) into a many smaller federal governments.

Of course most Americans don't want that (I think), which I respect. That's why I'm supporting Sanders as he'll be more or less the same except with a conscious and policy-points I mostly agree with. He'll still be "checked" by Congress, but his voice can plant the seeds for future generations to continue the changes.

The cat's out of the bag. If neoliberalism worked, you wouldn't see this backlash against it.

Bern it down.

[kalm]

We do need to seriously evaluate a system where Americans are more productive than ever before in history
and Corporate America is making more money than ever before

1) and wages are flat
2) homes are more expensive than ever
3) wages are flat
4) College Education is more expensive then ever
5) Wages are flat
6) healthcare is broken
8) we're the world police at an unreasonably high expense
9) Our infrastructure is below the entirety of Europe and Japan

This seems like something should change
and Trump obsessed with Deregulation and Wall Street profits

He's not "The Answer" to a crumbling America
We're not Number one in anything - but corporate profits, guns, bombs and global military bases

We trail in
Middle class wages
Infrastructure hardware
Infrastructure Technology
Healthcare
Education

I can agree with all of that but I don't think that the answer is a lurch to the left. The answer involves both sides working together but both are so certain of the righteousness of their cause that they refuse to listen to the other.

I think you’re ignoring the lurch to the right by both parties since the 1960’s.

Equating Bernie to Soviet style communism is not dissimilar to calling Trump a Nazi.

Don’t go all Chris Matthews on us now...

https://www.newsweek.com/chris-matthews ... 1582451976

[93henfan]

I heart Bernie! Don't screw him again, DNC. Give the man a chance!!

Go, Bernie go!

[93henfan]

Also, great job UNI88, standing up to the mob in this thread.

[UNI88]

I can agree with all of that but I don't think that the answer is a lurch to the left. The answer involves both sides working together but both are so certain of the righteousness of their cause that they refuse to listen to the other.

I think you’re ignoring the lurch to the right by both parties since the 1960’s.

Equating Bernie to Soviet style communism is not dissimilar to calling Trump a Nazi.

Don’t go all Chris Matthews on us now...

https://www.newsweek.com/chris-matthews ... 1582451976

Examples of how we've lurched to the right?

Yes, the Donks have become almost as beholden to Wall Street as the Conks but what important liberal policies/institutions have they really taken away? There are some such as Glass Steagall repeal but there are also thinks like No Child Left Behind to offset them. It's been more status quo with slight shifts back and forth and that includes Trump's 3 years.

Calling Bernie a communist might be a little hyperbolic but I don't think Trump honeymooned in Nazi Germany so Bernie is has a much stronger link to Soviet-style communism than Trump does to Nazism. Do I believe that Bernie's true goal is a socialist government? Yes. Do I think that our checks and balances will prevent him from achieving that goal? Yes. So I'm not quite like Trip and the other Chicken Littles who think the death of the republic (not democracy) is nigh because of Trump's election. I have faith in this country and its institutions.

[Chizzang]

any American making under $80K a year should be praying for Bernie to get elected...
Which by the way is 65% of Trumps base

[∞∞∞]

lSo I'm not quite like Trip and the other Chicken Littles who think the death of the republic (not democracy) is nigh because of Trump's election. I have faith in this country and its institutions.

Nigh? It's been long dead; the US is a corporatocracy parading around as a Republic or Democracy or whatever anyone wants to call it.

And on top of that you've got a system where the triple pillars of government doesn't work for the same reason why triumvirates don't work...two will always gang up on one. Historically it's the executive and judicial branches ganging up on the one institution representing the People...which is further handicapped by having two sub-branches which have to agree with each other.

The whole system is designed so the will of the people is kept in check. It's no surprise it was engineered by prominent and wealthy (white) men of the time. Even the election of a President is done indirectly.

[Col Hogan]

[kalm]

[93henfan]

[Col Hogan]

[AZGrizFan]

We do need to seriously evaluate a system where Americans are more productive than ever before in history
and Corporate America is making more money than ever before

1) and wages are flat
2) homes are more expensive than ever
3) wages are flat
4) College Education is more expensive then ever
5) Wages are flat
6) healthcare is broken
8) we're the world police at an unreasonably high expense
9) Our infrastructure is below the entirety of Europe and Japan

This seems like something should change
and Trump obsessed with Deregulation and Wall Street profits

He's not "The Answer" to a crumbling America
We're not Number one in anything - but corporate profits, guns, bombs and global military bases

We trail in
Middle class wages
Infrastructure hardware
Infrastructure Technology
Healthcare
Education

Nice rant.

Wages are not flat. 5% growth YOY. Growing faster at the low end than the high end. But don’t let that stand in the way of your BS.
And I would love to know what “infrasture” we Trail Europe in. I’ve been to England, Ireland, Spain, Italy & Greece in the past 18 months. Vast majority of these places? Absolute shithole tourist traps. And when you get OFF the beaten path and the non-touristy places, most places in mainland Europe look like third world countries. So tell me again, what infrastructure are we “trailing” in?

[Pwns]

I suspect that calling someone a socialist in politics is now about as worthless as calling someone a racist, but regardless, this will definitely not help Sanders...

[Chizzang]

We do need to seriously evaluate a system where Americans are more productive than ever before in history
and Corporate America is making more money than ever before

1) and wages are flat
2) homes are more expensive than ever
3) wages are flat
4) College Education is more expensive then ever
5) Wages are flat
6) healthcare is broken
8) we're the world police at an unreasonably high expense
9) Our infrastructure is below the entirety of Europe and Japan

This seems like something should change
and Trump obsessed with Deregulation and Wall Street profits

He's not "The Answer" to a crumbling America
We're not Number one in anything - but corporate profits, guns, bombs and global military bases

We trail in
Middle class wages
Infrastructure hardware
Infrastructure Technology
Healthcare
Education

Nice rant.

Wages are not flat. 5% growth YOY. Growing faster at the low end than the high end. But don’t let that stand in the way of your BS.
And I would love to know what “infrasture” we Trail Europe in. I’ve been to England, Ireland, Spain, Italy & Greece in the past 18 months. Vast majority of these places? Absolute shithole tourist traps. And when you get OFF the beaten path and the non-touristy places, most places in mainland Europe look like third world countries. So tell me again, what infrastructure are we “trailing” in?

Here's a link (Wages over time)
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/W270RE1A156NBEA

here's a link (personal expenditures over time)
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/DPCE ... categories

I await YOUR link to support your claim

[∞∞∞]

Here's a link
Here's a link (Wages over time)
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/W270RE1A156NBEA

here's a link (personal expenditures over time)
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/DPCE ... categories

I await YOUR link to support your claim

AZ's number comes from the fact that "wages" are up for the wealthy, which also corresponds with the increase in the wealth gap under Trump. All statistic show real wages among the middle and lower class have been stagnant.

For simplicity, 99 employees make $100 each; the CEO makes $1100. The board raises the CEO's salary to $1650, now wages are up 5%.

[AZGrizFan]

Nice rant.

Wages are not flat. 5% growth YOY. Growing faster at the low end than the high end. But don’t let that stand in the way of your BS.
And I would love to know what “infrasture” we Trail Europe in. I’ve been to England, Ireland, Spain, Italy & Greece in the past 18 months. Vast majority of these places? Absolute shithole tourist traps. And when you get OFF the beaten path and the non-touristy places, most places in mainland Europe look like third world countries. So tell me again, what infrastructure are we “trailing” in?

Here's a link (Wages over time)
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/W270RE1A156NBEA

here's a link (personal expenditures over time)
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/DPCE ... categories

I await YOUR link to support your claim

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/wage-growth

4.5-5% growth YOY

And analjelly, stick this in your pipe and smoke it:

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/13/workers ... wages.html

[∞∞∞]

That's nice AZ, conveniently leaving out that 50% of Americans didn't receive a raise last year, or that 44% of Americans 18-64 are now making $18,000 or less a year. Fourty-four. That 3.4% increase in low-wage jobs accounts to approximately $600/yr (without including inflation). Even for a middle-class person like me, 5% makes no discernible difference (and I haven't seen anywhere near 5%).

Start looking at the big picture. The stock market is a terrible economic metric, and wage percentages don't tell the whole story. People are hurting, working more hours, falling behind on bills, going into debt, holding off children, etc...yet you've convinced yourself the economy is helping everyone. Maybe for the wealthy and upper-middle class, but I don't see it from where I sit.

[Chizzang]

That's nice AZ, conveniently leaving out that 50% of Americans didn't receive a raise last year, or that 44% of Americans 18-64 are now making $18,000 or less a year. Fourty-four. That 3.4% increase in low-wage jobs accounts to approximately $600/yr (without including inflation). Even for a middle-class person like me, 5% makes no discernible difference (and I haven't seen anywhere near 5%).

Start looking at the big picture. The stock market is a terrible economic metric, and wage percentages don't tell the whole story. People are hurting, working more hours, falling behind on bills, going into debt, holding off children, etc...yet you've convinced yourself the economy is helping everyone. Maybe for the wealthy and upper-middle class, but I don't see it from where I sit.

You mean this...
if you look hard enough you can find the "average Employee" margin increase in this graph... it takes a minute




AZ likes to fancy himself an super valuable executive so this one ^ always annoys him...
I found a video of me and AZ talking about the economy

[AZGrizFan]

No what I find funny is that you like to take a data set that includes a couple hundred CEO’s who grossly overweight that graph and then throw it into faces of normal, working people to tell/show them how unloved they are.

I do find it funny when you consistently try to make it about me though. Starting to worry about you,

I also find it funny that you say “wages are flat” or “wages are stagnant” NOW, then post a graph that literally stops the middle of Obama’s 2nd term.

[AZGrizFan]

That's nice AZ, conveniently leaving out that 50% of Americans didn't receive a raise last year, or that 44% of Americans 18-64 are now making $18,000 or less a year. Fourty-four. That 3.4% increase in low-wage jobs accounts to approximately $600/yr (without including inflation). Even for a middle-class person like me, 5% makes no discernible difference (and I haven't seen anywhere near 5%).

Start looking at the big picture. The stock market is a terrible economic metric, and wage percentages don't tell the whole story. People are hurting, working more hours, falling behind on bills, going into debt, holding off children, etc...yet you've convinced yourself the economy is helping everyone. Maybe for the wealthy and upper-middle class, but I don't see it from where I sit.

I love how you spout stats with zero proof. It’s so cute. Got any links to back up all that bloviating?

[AZGrizFan]

It’s not socialism. don’t be a retard.

I know...I’m not so sure you do though.

Well I just said as much. What’s your next move, Einstein?

[UNI88]

That's nice AZ, conveniently leaving out that 50% of Americans didn't receive a raise last year, or that 44% of Americans 18-64 are now making $18,000 or less a year. Fourty-four. That 3.4% increase in low-wage jobs accounts to approximately $600/yr (without including inflation). Even for a middle-class person like me, 5% makes no discernible difference (and I haven't seen anywhere near 5%).

Start looking at the big picture. The stock market is a terrible economic metric, and wage percentages don't tell the whole story. People are hurting, working more hours, falling behind on bills, going into debt, holding off children, etc...yet you've convinced yourself the economy is helping everyone. Maybe for the wealthy and upper-middle class, but I don't see it from where I sit.

Link? It's Chizzy's MO to make up statistics to support his argument. It's funny when he does it to 89 but it's not working here.

And 5% makes no discernible difference? It's called compounding and it makes a difference for your retirement and your overall pay. 5% might not be a big change from one year to the next but it adds up over time. Your impatience is your problem, not a national catastrophe.

[CID1990]

44% of people between the ages of 18-64 are making $18000 or less?

Gonna need to see a link on that one, Treep


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[Gil Dobie]

Here's a link
Here's a link (Wages over time)
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/W270RE1A156NBEA

here's a link (personal expenditures over time)
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/DPCE ... categories

I await YOUR link to support your claim

AZ's number comes from the fact that "wages" are up for the wealthy, which also corresponds with the increase in the wealth gap under Trump. All statistic show real wages among the middle and lower class have been stagnant.

For simplicity, 99 employees make $100 each; the CEO makes $1100. The board raises the CEO's salary to $1650, now wages are up 5%.

You forgot the part where 25 employees were laid off to show a profit, so the CEO can get a $10,000 bonus in stock options.