Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by SDHornet »

GannonFan wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:08 am
Skjellyfetti wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:02 am It not just that they prefer one candidate or another. It's their active measure campaigns, including hacking the DNC and RNC, that is a concern. I'm not sure why we should just shrug our shoulders and ignore it.
There's plenty of ground between ignoring it and being convinced that certain candidates are basically proxy candidates for Putin. You of all people should be aware of the dangers of lurching so suddenly to that extreme. :coffee:
He should be aware, but of course he isn't. :lol:
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by CID1990 »

Skjellyfetti wrote:It not just that they prefer one candidate or another. It's their active measure campaigns, including hacking the DNC and RNC, that is a concern. I'm not sure why we should just shrug our shoulders and ignore it.
Someone as easily duped as you should probably not be the standard bearer for that

You and millions of other leftists didn’t give a hot damn (see: Barack Obama) about Russian activities until 2016 when it became politically advantageous to do so

Russian interference in US politics has been a fact for decades but nobody cared until Democrats figured out how to weaponize it in their favor using their low information base




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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by Skjellyfetti »

CID1990 wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:37 pm You and millions of other leftists didn’t give a hot damn (see: Barack Obama) about Russian activities until 2016 when it became politically advantageous to do so
Bullshit. Go back and read threads from the annexation of Crimea or MH17.
CID1990 wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:37 pmRussian interference in US politics has been a fact for decades but nobody cared until Democrats figured out how to weaponize it in their favor using their low information base
While not technically wrong... there hasn't been a previous example as brazen as 2016. If I'm something you think is the equal, go right ahead.

You have agreed the hacking of major political parties should be considered an act of war. No? If I remember that correctly, I'm not sure where the disconnect is on this.
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by CID1990 »

Skjellyfetti wrote:
CID1990 wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:37 pm You and millions of other leftists didn’t give a hot damn (see: Barack Obama) about Russian activities until 2016 when it became politically advantageous to do so
Bullshit. Go back and read threads from the annexation of Crimea or MH17.
CID1990 wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:37 pmRussian interference in US politics has been a fact for decades but nobody cared until Democrats figured out how to weaponize it in their favor using their low information base
While not technically wrong... there hasn't been a previous example as brazen as 2016. If I'm something you think is the equal, go right ahead.

You have agreed the hacking of major political parties should be considered an act of war. No? If I remember that correctly, I'm not sure where the disconnect is on this.
Don’t go deflecting and changing the subject, Reek. I’m well on record for years about Russians and Chinese

I’m talking about your gullibility and credibility gap when it comes conspiracy theories about Russians, US presidential candidates, piss tapes, foreign agents and other various and sundry unicorns

If you want people to believe that you take actual Russian meddling in our elections seriously then I’d suggest you do it in some other thread. This thread is for Alex Jones level paranoia, disinformation, and leprechauns. It is a grand monument to your political blindfold and lack of logic

As an aside, I’m actually eager to hear about your war plan for Russia, you little reeky hawk, you


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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by Skjellyfetti »

Ok. I assume you don't have any decent example that compares to 2016. And, I assume I remembered correctly that you considered the 2016 cyber attacks to be an act of war.

As to my "war plan" for Russia - I don't think it should have been conventional war. I think we should have unleashed a proportional cyber response. I also think we should have hit Putin and his oligarchs financially. Not just the routine sanctions, but stripping them of all their money outside Russia, similarly to what we did to Al Qaeda and other terrorism financing post 9/11.
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by CID1990 »

Skjellyfetti wrote:Ok. I assume you don't have any decent example that compares to 2016. And, I assume I remembered correctly that you considered the 2016 cyber attacks to be an act of war.

As to my "war plan" for Russia - I don't think it should have been conventional war. I think we should have unleashed a proportional cyber response. I also think we should have hit Putin and his oligarchs financially. Not just the routine sanctions, but stripping them of all their money outside Russia, similarly to what we did to Al Qaeda and other terrorism financing post 9/11.
I’ll be happy to discuss all things Russia and China with you outside of this conspiracy theory thread. We need to keep it pristine and unsullied by rational thought


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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by SDHornet »

CID1990 wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:51 pm
Skjellyfetti wrote:Ok. I assume you don't have any decent example that compares to 2016. And, I assume I remembered correctly that you considered the 2016 cyber attacks to be an act of war.

As to my "war plan" for Russia - I don't think it should have been conventional war. I think we should have unleashed a proportional cyber response. I also think we should have hit Putin and his oligarchs financially. Not just the routine sanctions, but stripping them of all their money outside Russia, similarly to what we did to Al Qaeda and other terrorism financing post 9/11.
I’ll be happy to discuss all things Russia and China with you outside of this conspiracy theory thread. We need to keep it pristine and unsullied by rational thought


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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by Ibanez »

I have a sincere question - are we to believe Trump's administration with regards to Russian Interference or not? This isn't the DNC or the Obama administration. This is Trump's own people admitting this.

Or are they "deep state" as well?

Or are we just blurring the lines between Russian Interference and Russian Collusion? It seems that we can have one w/o the other (although, Trump's precious ego can't handle that).
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by Skjellyfetti »

We know Russian active measures in 2016 included support for Bernie. I believe it's probably true this time as well.

If Bernie's senior advisors were caught meeting with a Kremlin lawyer promising dirt on Trump or sharing internal campaign data I would consider that to be disqualifying at the very least as well.
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Post by CID1990 »

Nobody is claiming the Russians aren’t actively engaged in online misinformation programs. That has been a known fact for many years. And before the Internet and social media, they were doing it with print

Claiming anyone here is saying otherwise is invoking a straw man - just like referencing the Crimea and MH17, which have precisely nothing to do with the US (except for turning American lefties into proxy war Nixonians)
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Post by Ibanez »

CID1990 wrote:Nobody is claiming the Russians aren’t actively engaged in online misinformation programs. That has been a known fact for many years. And before the Internet and social media, they were doing it with print

Claiming anyone here is saying otherwise is invoking a straw man - just like referencing the Crimea and MH17, which have precisely nothing to do with the US (except for turning American lefties into proxy war Nixonians)
I’m pretty sure BDK conflates the two.


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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by BDKJMU »

Ibanez wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:14 pm
CID1990 wrote:Nobody is claiming the Russians aren’t actively engaged in online misinformation programs. That has been a known fact for many years. And before the Internet and social media, they were doing it with print

Claiming anyone here is saying otherwise is invoking a straw man - just like referencing the Crimea and MH17, which have precisely nothing to do with the US (except for turning American lefties into proxy war Nixonians)
I’m pretty sure BDK conflates the two.


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Nope. The Russians have been attempting to meddle in US elections since what, the 1930s?
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by Ibanez »

BDKJMU wrote: Fri Feb 28, 2020 12:34 am
Ibanez wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:14 pm
I’m pretty sure BDK conflates the two.


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Nope. The Russians have been attempting to meddle in US elections since what, the 1930s?
Sorry. You agree that the Russians have meddled in our elections. I've come across quite a few Republicans who deny that.

TBH, I'm not sold that Trump coordinated in anyway with the Ruskies. I think the rub is that his ego can't handle the fact that Russian meddling in 2016 MIGHT'VE helped him. I find it interesting that he doesn't believe his own intelligence community, especially when it's coming from people he chose to run those agencies.
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Post by CID1990 »

Ibanez wrote:
BDKJMU wrote: Fri Feb 28, 2020 12:34 am
Nope. The Russians have been attempting to meddle in US elections since what, the 1930s?
Sorry. You agree that the Russians have meddled in our elections. I've come across quite a few Republicans who deny that.

TBH, I'm not sold that Trump coordinated in anyway with the Ruskies. I think the rub is that his ego can't handle the fact that Russian meddling in 2016 MIGHT'VE helped him. I find it interesting that he doesn't believe his own intelligence community, especially when it's coming from people he chose to run those agencies.
The IC hasn’t said anything about the effects of Russian meddling. They have said that the Russians have coordinated misinformation campaigns on social media.

In fact, the IC was saying the same thing back when the 1980s were asking for their foreign policy back... back when certain people didn’t care

In fact, over the last century those efforts have been fruitless and all evidence points to the 2016 shenanigans not being effectual, either.
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by Ibanez »

CID1990 wrote: Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:42 am
Ibanez wrote:
Sorry. You agree that the Russians have meddled in our elections. I've come across quite a few Republicans who deny that.

TBH, I'm not sold that Trump coordinated in anyway with the Ruskies. I think the rub is that his ego can't handle the fact that Russian meddling in 2016 MIGHT'VE helped him. I find it interesting that he doesn't believe his own intelligence community, especially when it's coming from people he chose to run those agencies.
The IC hasn’t said anything about the effects of Russian meddling. They have said that the Russians have coordinated misinformation campaigns on social media.

In fact, the IC was saying the same thing back when the 1980s were asking for their foreign policy back... back when certain people didn’t care

In fact, over the last century those efforts have been fruitless and all evidence points to the 2016 shenanigans not being effectual, either.
The effects would be too difficult to ascertain. But notice my qualifying word, 'Might've'. We can't definitively determine how effective/ineffective it was. Richard Burr (Republican chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee) is correct, "we cannot calculate the impact that foreign meddling and social media had on this election." But the IC, Obama administration and Trump Administration agree that the Moscow interfered. The Republican-led Senate Intelligence committee came to the same conclusion in 2018. Same with a House committee.
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by JohnStOnge »

GannonFan wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:18 am The Russians win everytime a JSO or Jelly person gets all up in arms over whether Russia may be rooting for a particular candidate, whether it be Trump or Sanders, to win. Newsflash, we as the US almost always have a preference for a candidate in any other countries' elections to win. So does basically every country. This is what has always made this just the most recent Red Scare and what caused Jelly to slink away from the message boards for months after being duped by it all. All Russia has to do is just exist and we'll have alarmists and chicken-littles here, with their own political agendas, claiming the end is near. Such lemmings.
All I said in this instance is that there are reasons for thinking the Russians would prefer that Trump be re-elected. However, I will say that in today's day and age we SHOULD be concerned about foreign efforts to influence our elections. It's one thing to say countries have a preference for who wins elections in other countries. But we are in an age where we are dealing with sophisticated, targeted campaigns using social media. We SHOULD want to get that under control.

And it could get to another level with direct hacking of things like voter registration databases. This is not a nothing burger. It's a threat.
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by CID1990 »

I’m not really sure why it is necessary to conflate these two things

It is widely acknowledged that the Russians (and the Chinese for that matter) meddle in our political processes, and now with social media they can reach many more people

Pointing out that the Trump administration did not conspire with Russia to aid their meddling has this odd effect of making some of you revert to the deflection that the Russians did meddle, when nobody here is disputing that claim that I know of

As to the effects, there is no evidence that the Russians have moved the needle - they certainly have made people more angry, have brought out conspiracy minded ignorance in both sides, but I find highly illogical to think that it did anything other than entrench already strongly held political beliefs.

The only minds being changed are in independents who carefully consider their political choices, and those people are generally not fooled by memes and fake stories.



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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by houndawg »

SDHornet wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:52 am
CID1990 wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:51 pm

I’ll be happy to discuss all things Russia and China with you outside of this conspiracy theory thread. We need to keep it pristine and unsullied by rational thought


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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by SDHornet »

houndawg wrote: Sat Feb 29, 2020 8:08 am
SDHornet wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:52 am

reeky hawk (I'm stealing this btw) leaves the door wide open for a Ted Kennedy - KGB reference and you walk away? How dare you. :lol:
SD Hornet. Because CID's balls can't lick themselves.... :coffee:
Somebody is jelly that I am not slapping them around about their Zimmy thread meltdowns anymore. :lol:
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Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by Ibanez »

CID1990 wrote:I’m not really sure why it is necessary to conflate these two things

It is widely acknowledged that the Russians (and the Chinese for that matter) meddle in our political processes, and now with social media they can reach many more people

Pointing out that the Trump administration did not conspire with Russia to aid their meddling has this odd effect of making some of you revert to the deflection that the Russians did meddle, when nobody here is disputing that claim that I know of

As to the effects, there is no evidence that the Russians have moved the needle - they certainly have made people more angry, have brought out conspiracy minded ignorance in both sides, but I find highly illogical to think that it did anything other than entrench already strongly held political beliefs.

The only minds being changed are in independents who carefully consider their political choices, and those people are generally not fooled by memes and fake stories.



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Dear leader denies it. And that’s a message that gets sent out to his base. C’mon, CID.

it’s because he is insecure. His ego can’t handle it.


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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by CID1990 »

Ibanez wrote:
CID1990 wrote:I’m not really sure why it is necessary to conflate these two things

It is widely acknowledged that the Russians (and the Chinese for that matter) meddle in our political processes, and now with social media they can reach many more people

Pointing out that the Trump administration did not conspire with Russia to aid their meddling has this odd effect of making some of you revert to the deflection that the Russians did meddle, when nobody here is disputing that claim that I know of

As to the effects, there is no evidence that the Russians have moved the needle - they certainly have made people more angry, have brought out conspiracy minded ignorance in both sides, but I find highly illogical to think that it did anything other than entrench already strongly held political beliefs.

The only minds being changed are in independents who carefully consider their political choices, and those people are generally not fooled by memes and fake stories.



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Dear leader denies it. And that’s a message that gets sent out to his base. C’mon, CID.

it’s because he is insecure. His ego can’t handle it.


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Well I dunno but maybe you have noticed...

I don’t parrot Trimp

And him denying that the Russians fuck with us in election years is some Alex Jones level BS

But our dear leader being a low info choad (and denying some of the best intel we have to offer) does not validate conspiracy theory claims that he ir his campaign conspired with the Russkies

Judas Priest this thread is like a Dawn or the Dead corpse that keeps coming back to life, no matter how often you brain that motherfucker with a shovel


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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by houndawg »

SDHornet wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:38 pm
houndawg wrote: Sat Feb 29, 2020 8:08 am

SD Hornet. Because CID's balls can't lick themselves.... :coffee:
Somebody is jelly that I am not slapping them around about their Zimmy thread meltdowns anymore. :lol:
:rofl:

You're still bent over me being right about him? :notworthy:


Given the variety of subjects I've scooled you on here I'm surprised that that was the one sticking in your craw. I guess as time goes by and the Zimster proves me righter and righter it just builds up in you until you burst forth in prose. :coffee:
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by SeattleGriz »

Ibanez wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:15 am
CID1990 wrote:I’m not really sure why it is necessary to conflate these two things

It is widely acknowledged that the Russians (and the Chinese for that matter) meddle in our political processes, and now with social media they can reach many more people

Pointing out that the Trump administration did not conspire with Russia to aid their meddling has this odd effect of making some of you revert to the deflection that the Russians did meddle, when nobody here is disputing that claim that I know of

As to the effects, there is no evidence that the Russians have moved the needle - they certainly have made people more angry, have brought out conspiracy minded ignorance in both sides, but I find highly illogical to think that it did anything other than entrench already strongly held political beliefs.

The only minds being changed are in independents who carefully consider their political choices, and those people are generally not fooled by memes and fake stories.



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Dear leader denies it. And that’s a message that gets sent out to his base. C’mon, CID.

it’s because he is insecure. His ego can’t handle it.


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I think your ego can't handle Trump. Lol

That's always been his brand. Never wrong.
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by Ibanez »

SeattleGriz wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:28 am
Ibanez wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:15 am
Dear leader denies it. And that’s a message that gets sent out to his base. C’mon, CID.

it’s because he is insecure. His ego can’t handle it.


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I think your ego can't handle Trump. Lol

That's always been his brand. Never wrong.
I'm not even sure what that means.

I know his brand is he isn't ever wrong. That should been the first clue to many that this guy has a problem.
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by SeattleGriz »

Ibanez wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:25 am
SeattleGriz wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:28 am

I think your ego can't handle Trump. Lol

That's always been his brand. Never wrong.
I'm not even sure what that means.

I know his brand is he isn't ever wrong. That should been the first clue to many that this guy has a problem.
It was simply meant as a joke that you can't get over Trump.
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