Coronavirus COVID-19

[kalm]

Unless you, Dr. AZGrizFan, Epidemiologist, know for a fact that we’re at the tail end and risks of regional 2nd waves and spike related additional shutdowns due to relaxed social distancing are minimal.

So another shut down would be as bad as the current shut down. Check. WTF kalm?? What part of being shutdown is what hurts the economy don't you get?

Huh? Hard to to tell but there’s a chance repeated shutdowns and a rollercoaster can be economically worse than a measured re-opening. Who’s saying shut downs don’t hurt the economy?

[kalm]

You SHOULD wonder. Beware of the person who has all the answers....

Unless you, Dr. AZGrizFan, Epidemiologist, know for a fact that we’re at the tail end and risks of regional 2nd waves and spike related additional shutdowns due to relaxed social distancing are minimal.

Yeah, except I've literally said NONE of that--in fact I've said exactly the opposite. You're sounding more and more like Trip lately.

You are all over the map here.

[89Hen]

So another shut down would be as bad as the current shut down. Check. WTF kalm?? What part of being shutdown is what hurts the economy don't you get?

Huh? Hard to to tell but there’s a chance repeated shutdowns and a rollercoaster can be economically worse than a measured re-opening. Who’s saying shut downs don’t hurt the economy?

Last week you were trying to say the virus itself was possibly hurting the economy as much as any shutdown. It looked to me you were ready to go down that road again.

[AZGrizFan]

Yeah, except I've literally said NONE of that--in fact I've said exactly the opposite. You're sounding more and more like Trip lately.

You are all over the map here.

No, I'm not. I've said there will be 2nd & 3rd waves. Can't and won't be avoided. I've said reopen with proper safety protocols in place. I've said it's 30-50x less deadly than thought (but 30-50x more prevalent). I've NEVER said we're on the "tail end"...I've said we've flattened the curve (which was the premise for shutting down)….I've been VERY consistent in all of these positions. Please point out precisely where I've been "all over the map"?

[Gil Dobie]

And then there's this, 20-40% might not take the vaccine. That's about par for the course with only 37% getting the flu vaccine during a recent bad flu year.

Link

Many Vaccine Skeptics Plan to Refuse a COVID-19 Vaccine, Study Suggests

According to some estimates, 50% to 70% of Americans would need to develop immunity to COVID-19 – either naturally, or via a vaccine – in order to thwart the spread of the virus. If these estimates are correct, that could mean that nearly twice as many Americans would need to elect to receive a COVID-19 vaccine than those who currently opt to be vaccinated against seasonal influenza. Just 37% of American adults did so in 2017-2018, even in the midst of a historically severe flu season.

Making matters more complicated is the possibility that people who hold skeptical views about vaccine safety – sometimes referred to as "anti-vaxxers" – will not opt to receive the coronavirus vaccine. According to some estimates, about one-fifth to two-fifths of Americans express reservations about vaccine safety. If most of these individuals forego receiving a COVID-19 vaccine, they could potentially jeopardize the recovery process.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

The 2nd round of this "deadly virus" will roll out right around October, right before the election to give Obama a bump against Trump.

[89Hen]

And then there's this, 20-40% might not take the vaccine. That's about par for the course with only 37% getting the flu vaccine during a recent bad flu year.

So once again it's just like the flu.

[UNI88]

You SHOULD wonder. Beware of the person who has all the answers....

Unless you, Dr. AZGrizFan, Epidemiologist, know for a fact that we’re at the tail end and risks of regional 2nd waves and spike related additional shutdowns due to relaxed social distancing are minimal.

Yeah, except I've literally said NONE of that--in fact I've said exactly the opposite. You're sounding more and more like Trip lately.

AZ - I said open things back up with precautions/protocols. You want to keep things closed down.
Kalm - AZ - I said open things back up with precautions/protocols. You want everything wide open.

Why don't the two of you actually listen to each other so you can focus your debate on the likely differences in opinion (what precautions/protocols and timeline we should follow)?

Otherwise we're going to have to put out a BOLO for Bench to counsel you through this troubled point in your relationship because we certainly don't want to put it on IT to mediate this dispute.

[kalm]

Yeah, except I've literally said NONE of that--in fact I've said exactly the opposite. You're sounding more and more like Trip lately.

AZ - I said open things back up with precautions/protocols. You want to keep things closed down.
Kalm - AZ - I said open things back up with precautions/protocols. You want everything wide open.

Why don't the two of you actually listen to each other so you can focus your debate on the likely differences in opinion (what precautions/protocols and timeline we should follow)?

Otherwise we're going to have to put out a BOLO for Bench to counsel you through this troubled point in your relationship because we certainly don't want to put it on IT to mediate this dispute.

Wait just a gosh darn minute! Are you somehow implying we are talking past each other???

Or are you suggesting limiting our speech through forced mediation?

[89Hen]

Or are you suggesting limiting our speech through forced mediation?

I'm voting for that option.

[kalm]

Huh? Hard to to tell but there’s a chance repeated shutdowns and a rollercoaster can be economically worse than a measured re-opening. Who’s saying shut downs don’t hurt the economy?

Last week you were trying to say the virus itself was possibly hurting the economy as much as any shutdown. It looked to me you were ready to go down that road again.

Without a viral threat there is no lockdown.

I’ve been saying for weeks we shouldn’t separate the two.

[89Hen]

Last week you were trying to say the virus itself was possibly hurting the economy as much as any shutdown. It looked to me you were ready to go down that road again.

Without a viral threat there is no lockdown.

I’ve been saying for weeks we shouldn’t separate the two.

Kalm, I said this earlier today, we have a virus EVERY YEAR that kills tens of thousands of people and it doesn't impact our economy because we don't lock down.

[kalm]

Without a viral threat there is no lockdown.

I’ve been saying for weeks we shouldn’t separate the two.

Kalm, I said this earlier today, we have a virus EVERY YEAR that kills tens of thousands of people and it doesn't impact our economy because we don't lock down.

No shit?

And this one is no different and should be regarded the same because......... evil scientists were just biding their time to strike!

[AZGrizFan]

AZ - I said open things back up with precautions/protocols. You want to keep things closed down.
Kalm - AZ - I said open things back up with precautions/protocols. You want everything wide open.

Why don't the two of you actually listen to each other so you can focus your debate on the likely differences in opinion (what precautions/protocols and timeline we should follow)?

Otherwise we're going to have to put out a BOLO for Bench to counsel you through this troubled point in your relationship because we certainly don't want to put it on IT to mediate this dispute.

Wait just a gosh darn minute! Are you somehow implying we are talking past each other???

Or are you suggesting limiting our speech through forced mediation?

Don't avoid the question/issue: WHERE HAVE I BEEN ALL OVER THE BOARD. PLEASE PROVIDE LINKS/PROOF of that dastardly claim.

[89Hen]

Kalm, I said this earlier today, we have a virus EVERY YEAR that kills tens of thousands of people and it doesn't impact our economy because we don't lock down.

No shit?

And this one is no different and should be regarded the same because......... evil scientists were just biding their time to strike!

You're impossible on this thread.

[mainejeff]

They involve job loss, depression, suicide, etc. by regular people.

Where are all of these mass suicides that the Trumptards keep throwing out there.....and hoping for.

[UNI88]

They involve job loss, depression, suicide, etc. by regular people.

Where are all of these mass suicides that the Trumptards keep throwing out there.....and hoping for.

Did I say mass suicides?

[Winterborn]

They involve job loss, depression, suicide, etc. by regular people.

According to a few law enforcement friends of mine they are seeing a sharp rise in domestic violence.

[BDKJMU]

I've stated at least twice that if the infection rate is 50-80x more than thought, then the death RATE is 50-80x LESS than thought, but it doesn't change the RAW NUMBER OF DEATHS. Point being, it's much more contagious, but much less deadly....

It's not any less deadly, but it can be a terrible ordeal for people with existing health conditions. People with existing conditions are probably taking this shelter in place more seriously than the general healthy individual.

COVID-19 can be deadly for some people. Older adults and people with existing health conditions are more at risk of serious complications, which can be life threatening.

According to the World Health Organization (WHO), about 80% of people who develop the disease have mild to moderate symptoms and fully recover without needing treatment in a hospital.

Roughly 1 in 5 people experience serious illness.

Older people may develop more severe symptoms, as may people with ongoing health conditions, such as:

high blood pressure
cardiovascular disease
diabetes
chronic respiratory disease
cancer

Stopped reading right there..

[BDKJMU]

I can't understand how these people look at nations mandating masks in public - some boasting a 90% decrease in transmission rates - and still have the audacity to think this way. It's an act of consideration to your fellow man, not a threat to your freedom.

At least one conk seems to get it...



“Dear friends, I am currently hangry and it has been a long week, both of which are signs that I should step away from the keyboard. But I’m not. I would like to go on a profanity laced tirade. I apologize in advance
When did the conservative movement get filled with a bunch of whiny little bitches? Muh freedom! They are making me wear a mask. OMG I can’t go get drunk at my favorite restaurant. Give me liberty or give me coronavirus. Good grief. You people are grifty whiners.
You just managed to stack up the whole of the federal judiciary with a bunch of liberty loving judges. If you really think you’re rights are being violated, file a fucking lawsuit and the odds are really damn good you’ll get in front of one of those liberty loving Trump judges.
But nope. You’d rather get on social media and declare the country has come to an end, our freedoms are gone, and you’re forced to stay inside. Get a grip. There’s a global pandemic and the same president whose leg you like to hump has wanted you to shelter in place“

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1258 ... 21857.html

Fake conk.

[BDKJMU]

At least one conk seems to get it...



“Dear friends, I am currently hangry and it has been a long week, both of which are signs that I should step away from the keyboard. But I’m not. I would like to go on a profanity laced tirade. I apologize in advance
When did the conservative movement get filled with a bunch of whiny little bitches? Muh freedom! They are making me wear a mask. OMG I can’t go get drunk at my favorite restaurant. Give me liberty or give me coronavirus. Good grief. You people are grifty whiners.
You just managed to stack up the whole of the federal judiciary with a bunch of liberty loving judges. If you really think you’re rights are being violated, file a fucking lawsuit and the odds are really damn good you’ll get in front of one of those liberty loving Trump judges.
But nope. You’d rather get on social media and declare the country has come to an end, our freedoms are gone, and you’re forced to stay inside. Get a grip. There’s a global pandemic and the same president whose leg you like to hump has wanted you to shelter in place“

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1258 ... 21857.html

Another fake conk who has zero clue as to what the protests are really about.

Yep. Beat me to it. I should read ahead. What happens when you don’t come on here for 3 days..

[BDKJMU]

Yeah.....

No.

They’re not everything but saying they’re meaningless is like saying this the flu.

Its like saying death counts are meaningless after locking down ad/or voluntary social distancing for 2 months.

Yeah

no.

Death counts and cases in ICU matter. Everything else doesn't. We know the demographics of those highest at risk (old people and those with underlying health issues). Everyone else has a very small chance of dying from the Chinese Flu.


Time to open everything back up.

Yep.

[BDKJMU]

Another number to watch is total cases to active cases. In Texas, 20,000 cases out of 37,000 have “recovered”. That certainly can be skewed by date of diagnosis but I put recovered in quotes for two reasons.

1). From what I’ve read, recovery can mean weeks of hospitalization if not months. As in 4 weeks after being checked in, “You moved your finger! That’s wonderful!”

2). There are some initial indications of long term organ damage with the potential to haunt a person for the rest of their life.

Texas, Florida, SC, Georgia, Sweden, will be interesting to keep an eye on as their voluntary social distancing relaxes further. There seems to be a 3 to 5 week lag from infection to hospitalization, 3 to 4 weeks ago was the peak of stay at home for these places.

Come early June we should have a much better idea of the trajectory. Hopefully it’s falling or at least plateaued.

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/coronavirus-l ... soc_trk=fb

GA 4/24: Typical leftist headline over Kemp’s reopening GA 4/24:
Georgia’s Experiment in Human Sacrifice
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/arch ... ic/610882/

GA 5/8: Georgia reports lowest number of COVID patients in a month
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/georgi ... -month.amp

[JohnStOnge]

We are about to have a test as to whether or not relaxing things faster than epidemiologists would have us relax them turns out to be a net benefit or not. I do not know what is going to happen. But I do think there is a risk that having the thing really explode will end up doing even more economic damage than staying locked down for a longer period would have.

At the same time I am hoping that there is a seasonal aspect to this thing so that relaxing things at this point won't cause a big spike in cases.

[kalm]

We are about to have a test as to whether or not relaxing things faster than epidemiologists would have us relax them turns out to be a net benefit or not. I do not know what is going to happen. But I do think there is a risk that having the thing really explode will end up doing even more economic damage than staying locked down for a longer period would have.

At the same time I am hoping that there is a seasonal aspect to this thing so that relaxing things at this point won't cause a big spike in cases.

It’s refreshing to see someone admit they don’t know for sure. Equally refreshing to consider ALL of the economic possibilities rather than just the short term.