Coronavirus COVID-19

[CAA Flagship]

There’s something personally odd to me about this virus..

When there is something that appears to be statistically uncommon, like getting struck my lightning, dying of the flu, or dying of COVID-19, I expect to not personally know anyone who has made the stat sheets.

For example, I don’t know anyone who has died of influenza, ever. I don’t know anyone who had been struck by lightning. If I hadn’t been a cop, I wouldn’t know anyone who had been a victim of an armed robbery or a forcible rape. But I know at least 20 COVID deaths off the top of my head. That is not to suggest that the death rate is higher than we think, just that for such a low fatality rate, I know people who have been affected. All of them were older than 60 so far (but I have a classmate in ICU right now).

One thing that bothers me more than the death rate is the rate of bad outcomes. If you wind up in ICU on a ventilator and are lucky enough to survive, there is a smorgasbord of complications that people are experiencing that some people like me would consider not being ventilated. Permanent kidney failure is the big one. There are COVID survivors who are now looking forward to dialysis for 6 hours every 3 days for the rest of their lives. Organ damage (particularly lung and kidney) is prevalent, as are other complications that we do not see in people who have recovered from things like the flu. There are also what appears to be neurological aftereffects as well.

If I were to get this virus and then wind up having to go on morphine just to combat the pain in my lungs from coughing, and my O2 levels were dropping to the point that a vent and induced coma was medically indicated, I may give serious consideration to refusing the ventilator. The little bit of scholarship coming out on complications after surviving this disease isn’t pretty, and I’ve always been a quality of life guy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Maybe you are not thinking of the correct statistically uncommon events. Car accidents maybe?

[kalm]

Some good news from Andy Slavitt after interviewing some smart guys...

Everyone— and I can’t emphasize this enough— was a huge proponent of masks. Efforts to invalidate masks were considered absurd. 8/
The reason I mention these things is that the principal thing I learned is that the future will be defined by all of these things in combination: vaccines, therapies, masks, and other human interventions. 9/
Mutations yes, but there wasn’t much concern that vaccines could keep up.

Also viruses become less deadly over time and there is cross-immunity and other potential 10/
T-cells more important and less understood than antibodies. 11

Crowds, arenas?

Take it slowly. Masks and immunity and digital apps will help. But people will be taking risks.

Antibody therapies could make catching CV less deadly & therefore a more acceptable risk. 17/
What will the time before a vaccine look like?

Crappy. Horrible response in the US. Way too many unnecessary deaths. Fall will be awful. 18/

Chance that the early vaccines turn out to be unsafe or don’t pan out? Possible but low

The major takeaway. There absolutely is a light at the end of the tunnel even if it’s hard to see sometimes. Even if our leaders have made this harder. Even if it’s very dispiriting.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1280 ... 11488.html

[Winterborn]

Some good news from Andy Slavitt after interviewing some smart guys...


https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1280 ... 11488.html

Kalm you are smarter than this.

Who were the sources? All Andy mentions is three "scientist" two of which were regulators (which is not necessarily a plus based on my work experience, I work with multiple regulator entities around the world)?

If they have to speak on the condition of anonymity, why are they speaking at all? If they are not willing to put their "reputation/expertise/name" behind the information, why should I "trust" their opinions or Andy's explanation of them?

No sources listed beyond the above, does not make me want to believe him. Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one (me included).


And while we are on this why should I be listening to Andy in the first place? His only expertise is being an administrator for ObamaCare?

This is his background:

Slavitt graduated from both The College of Arts and Sciences and the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania in 1988, and earned an MBA from the Harvard Business School in 1993.

After graduating from college, he was an investment banker with Goldman Sachs; after receiving his MBA he joined McKinsey & Company as a consultant. In 1999 Slavitt founded the healthcare company HealthAllies after the death of his college roommate, Jeff Yurkofsky, from a malignant brain tumor. Slavitt later recounted that the financial strain of Yurkofsky’s death led to Yurkofsky’s widow and children moving into a spare room at Slavitt’s home. He served as CEO of HealthAllies until 2003, when the company was acquired by UnitedHealth Group, whereafter he served as CEO of OptumInsight and the Group Executive Vice President for Optum, subsidiaries of UnitedHealth Group.

The Obama administration hired Slavitt to lead turnaround efforts for healthcare.gov after a series of technical issues reduced stability and service during the portal’s 2013 launch. In November 2013, Slavitt appeared before Congress to address the healthcare.gov turnaround at a hearing of the United States House of Representatives Committee on Energy and Commerce.

A February 2014 issue of Time called Slavitt’s team “Obama’s Trauma Team”. His leadership is credited with allowing the Obama administration to reach a self-imposed goal of providing fully functional Healthcare.gov service by December 1, 2013. Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services Administrator Marily Tavenner described Slavitt as a “key part of our leadership team to help millions of Americans get affordable health insurance in a whole new way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Slavitt

[kalm]

Some good news from Andy Slavitt after interviewing some smart guys...


https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1280 ... 11488.html

Kalm you are smarter than this.

Who were the sources? All Andy mentions is three "scientist" two of which were regulators (which is not necessarily a plus based on my work experience, I work with multiple regulator entities around the world)?

If they have to speak on the condition of anonymity, why are they speaking at all? If they are not willing to put their "reputation/expertise/name" behind the information, why should I "trust" their opinions or Andy's explanation of them?

No sources listed beyond the above, does not make me want to believe him. Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one (me included).


And while we are on this why should I be listening to Andy in the first place? His only expertise is being an administrator for ObamaCare?

This is his background:

Slavitt graduated from both The College of Arts and Sciences and the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania in 1988, and earned an MBA from the Harvard Business School in 1993.

After graduating from college, he was an investment banker with Goldman Sachs; after receiving his MBA he joined McKinsey & Company as a consultant. In 1999 Slavitt founded the healthcare company HealthAllies after the death of his college roommate, Jeff Yurkofsky, from a malignant brain tumor. Slavitt later recounted that the financial strain of Yurkofsky’s death led to Yurkofsky’s widow and children moving into a spare room at Slavitt’s home. He served as CEO of HealthAllies until 2003, when the company was acquired by UnitedHealth Group, whereafter he served as CEO of OptumInsight and the Group Executive Vice President for Optum, subsidiaries of UnitedHealth Group.

The Obama administration hired Slavitt to lead turnaround efforts for healthcare.gov after a series of technical issues reduced stability and service during the portal’s 2013 launch. In November 2013, Slavitt appeared before Congress to address the healthcare.gov turnaround at a hearing of the United States House of Representatives Committee on Energy and Commerce.

A February 2014 issue of Time called Slavitt’s team “Obama’s Trauma Team”. His leadership is credited with allowing the Obama administration to reach a self-imposed goal of providing fully functional Healthcare.gov service by December 1, 2013. Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services Administrator Marily Tavenner described Slavitt as a “key part of our leadership team to help millions of Americans get affordable health insurance in a whole new way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Slavitt

I don’t blame you for being skeptical.

Slavitt is well connected. Why I continue to read him is that 1) he retracted a story regarding Minnesota’s hospital situation early in the outbreak (which made me as well) but he apologized for it. I appreciate people who own their shit. 2). I’ve been following his weekly updates for months now and nearly everything he says/predicts comes to pass. No sources are lily white but I consider him a good one.

Another good one to follow who also does not have the hard medical background is Tomas Puyeo.

[kalm]

Some good news from Andy Slavitt after interviewing some smart guys...


https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1280 ... 11488.html

Kalm you are smarter than this.

Who were the sources? All Andy mentions is three "scientist" two of which were regulators (which is not necessarily a plus based on my work experience, I work with multiple regulator entities around the world)?

If they have to speak on the condition of anonymity, why are they speaking at all? If they are not willing to put their "reputation/expertise/name" behind the information, why should I "trust" their opinions or Andy's explanation of them?

No sources listed beyond the above, does not make me want to believe him. Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one (me included).


And while we are on this why should I be listening to Andy in the first place? His only expertise is being an administrator for ObamaCare?

This is his background:

Slavitt graduated from both The College of Arts and Sciences and the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania in 1988, and earned an MBA from the Harvard Business School in 1993.

After graduating from college, he was an investment banker with Goldman Sachs; after receiving his MBA he joined McKinsey & Company as a consultant. In 1999 Slavitt founded the healthcare company HealthAllies after the death of his college roommate, Jeff Yurkofsky, from a malignant brain tumor. Slavitt later recounted that the financial strain of Yurkofsky’s death led to Yurkofsky’s widow and children moving into a spare room at Slavitt’s home. He served as CEO of HealthAllies until 2003, when the company was acquired by UnitedHealth Group, whereafter he served as CEO of OptumInsight and the Group Executive Vice President for Optum, subsidiaries of UnitedHealth Group.

The Obama administration hired Slavitt to lead turnaround efforts for healthcare.gov after a series of technical issues reduced stability and service during the portal’s 2013 launch. In November 2013, Slavitt appeared before Congress to address the healthcare.gov turnaround at a hearing of the United States House of Representatives Committee on Energy and Commerce.

A February 2014 issue of Time called Slavitt’s team “Obama’s Trauma Team”. His leadership is credited with allowing the Obama administration to reach a self-imposed goal of providing fully functional Healthcare.gov service by December 1, 2013. Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services Administrator Marily Tavenner described Slavitt as a “key part of our leadership team to help millions of Americans get affordable health insurance in a whole new way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Slavitt

Btw, Doctors are like engineers (and golf pros). Highly skilled and talented within their scope of work but struggle at connecting the dots in analyzing large, disparate issues.

[∞∞∞]

ICU bed availability non-existent or critically low in multiple Florida counties:

https://bi.ahca.myflorida.com/t/ABICC/v ... %3Aembed=y

As of this post, Broward at 16% capacity, Hillsborough at 16% capacity, Orange at 16% capacity, Miami-Dade at 17% capacity.

[Winterborn]

Kalm you are smarter than this.

Who were the sources? All Andy mentions is three "scientist" two of which were regulators (which is not necessarily a plus based on my work experience, I work with multiple regulator entities around the world)?

If they have to speak on the condition of anonymity, why are they speaking at all? If they are not willing to put their "reputation/expertise/name" behind the information, why should I "trust" their opinions or Andy's explanation of them?

No sources listed beyond the above, does not make me want to believe him. Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one (me included).


And while we are on this why should I be listening to Andy in the first place? His only expertise is being an administrator for ObamaCare?

This is his background:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Slavitt

I don’t blame you for being skeptical.

Slavitt is well connected. Why I continue to read him is that 1) he retracted a story regarding Minnesota’s hospital situation early in the outbreak (which made me as well) but he apologized for it. I appreciate people who own their shit. 2). I’ve been following his weekly updates for months now and nearly everything he says/predicts comes to pass. No sources are lily white but I consider him a good one.

Well connected does not make a person worth listening to, IMHO. I can pull out my Rolodex and find contacts that are throughout the administration in all branches that I can get a hold of. I don't consider myself an expert just because of those contacts and I wouldn't expect people to listen to me just because of those contacts. If I start making claims or reporting data, I expect people to ask me where/how I am making such claims and be able provide information to back it up.

That he retracted a story is a testament to his character, not his expertise. I too admire people that "own their shit" but doesn't mean I am going to follow what they say in areas they don't have expertise in nor are willing to provide sources.

As for the second point, okay he has been more right than wrong. I haven't been following him so unless he provides background information, it still comes down to why should I trust him? A good way for me to start "trusting" a person is to provide background references. Otherwise I will assume they have an agenda and everything they say is circumspect.

[Winterborn]

Kalm you are smarter than this.

Who were the sources? All Andy mentions is three "scientist" two of which were regulators (which is not necessarily a plus based on my work experience, I work with multiple regulator entities around the world)?

If they have to speak on the condition of anonymity, why are they speaking at all? If they are not willing to put their "reputation/expertise/name" behind the information, why should I "trust" their opinions or Andy's explanation of them?

No sources listed beyond the above, does not make me want to believe him. Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one (me included).


And while we are on this why should I be listening to Andy in the first place? His only expertise is being an administrator for ObamaCare?

This is his background:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Slavitt

Btw, Doctors are like engineers (and golf pros). Highly skilled and talented within their scope of work but struggle at connecting the dots in analyzing large, disparate issues.

Normal engineers/Doctors/Golf Pros, I agree.

I am a slightly different case in that I specialize in seeing the forest from the trees.

My work deals with analyzing large, disparate issues and finding common threads. The part of my job that I enjoy the most is the puzzles that it gives me to work on.

[kalm]

I don’t blame you for being skeptical.

Slavitt is well connected. Why I continue to read him is that 1) he retracted a story regarding Minnesota’s hospital situation early in the outbreak (which made me as well) but he apologized for it. I appreciate people who own their shit. 2). I’ve been following his weekly updates for months now and nearly everything he says/predicts comes to pass. No sources are lily white but I consider him a good one.

Well connected does not make a person worth listening to, IMHO. I can pull out my Rolodex and find contacts that are throughout the administration in all branches that I can get a hold of. I don't consider myself an expert just because of those contacts and I wouldn't expect people to listen to me just because of those contacts. If I start making claims or reporting data, I expect people to ask me where/how I am making such claims and be able provide information to back it up.

That he retracted a story is a testament to his character, not his expertise. I too admire people that "own their shit" but doesn't mean I am going to follow what they say in areas they don't have expertise in nor are willing to provide sources.

As for the second point, okay he has been more right than wrong. I haven't been following him so unless he provides background information, it still comes down to why should I trust him? A good way for me to start "trusting" a person is to provide background references. Otherwise I will assume they have an agenda and everything they say is circumspect.

You SHOULD be skeptical of everything in life. Im not telling you that you have to read or trust Slavitt or anyone else. What would be helpful are countering arguments or assessments from dialed in people to what he’s saying here. Got any?

[Winterborn]

Well connected does not make a person worth listening to, IMHO. I can pull out my Rolodex and find contacts that are throughout the administration in all branches that I can get a hold of. I don't consider myself an expert just because of those contacts and I wouldn't expect people to listen to me just because of those contacts. If I start making claims or reporting data, I expect people to ask me where/how I am making such claims and be able provide information to back it up.

That he retracted a story is a testament to his character, not his expertise. I too admire people that "own their shit" but doesn't mean I am going to follow what they say in areas they don't have expertise in nor are willing to provide sources.

As for the second point, okay he has been more right than wrong. I haven't been following him so unless he provides background information, it still comes down to why should I trust him? A good way for me to start "trusting" a person is to provide background references. Otherwise I will assume they have an agenda and everything they say is circumspect.

You SHOULD be skeptical of everything in life. Im not telling you that you have to read or trust Slavitt or anyone else. What would be helpful are countering arguments or assessments from dialed in people to what he’s saying here. Got any?

That depends.

I don't have anything to refute Andy's sayings because they are so general and non-specific (a cop-out I know). Nothing he said is new and wasn't know a few weeks ago. His points on anti-bodies are interesting but it has been said in other articles that I have read (even the t-cell data). Overall all the information he stated has been already mentioned elsewhere in the media, with sources I might add. Why I even started questioning it was because you usually are much better at linking good articles with sources.

I have seen you mention him before and didn't cite the information he pulled from. Just wanted to raise a few questions and perhaps give you something to think about next time you are tying flies.

One other reason I replied was that people making claims based on vague references tends to push my buttons a bit. Normally I just ignore them, but your article kinda of tilted me over the edge.

[kalm]

You SHOULD be skeptical of everything in life. Im not telling you that you have to read or trust Slavitt or anyone else. What would be helpful are countering arguments or assessments from dialed in people to what he’s saying here. Got any?

That depends.

I don't have anything to refute Andy's sayings because they are so general and non-specific (a cop-out I know). Nothing he said is new and wasn't know a few weeks ago. His points on anti-bodies are interesting but it has been said in other articles that I have read (even the t-cell data). Overall all the information he stated has been already mentioned elsewhere in the media, with sources I might add. Why I even started questioning it was because you usually are much better at linking good articles with sources.

I have seen you mention him before and didn't cite the information he pulled from. Just wanted to raise a few questions and perhaps give you something to think about next time you are tying flies.

One other reason I replied was that people making claims based on vague references tends to push my buttons a bit. Normally I just ignore them, but your article kinda of tilted me over the edge.

Thanks for sharing your kryptonite. It will be used...oh yes, it will.

[Winterborn]

That depends.

I don't have anything to refute Andy's sayings because they are so general and non-specific (a cop-out I know). Nothing he said is new and wasn't know a few weeks ago. His points on anti-bodies are interesting but it has been said in other articles that I have read (even the t-cell data). Overall all the information he stated has been already mentioned elsewhere in the media, with sources I might add. Why I even started questioning it was because you usually are much better at linking good articles with sources.

I have seen you mention him before and didn't cite the information he pulled from. Just wanted to raise a few questions and perhaps give you something to think about next time you are tying flies.

One other reason I replied was that people making claims based on vague references tends to push my buttons a bit. Normally I just ignore them, but your article kinda of tilted me over the edge.

Thanks for sharing your kryptonite. It will be used...oh yes, it will.

I shared it in a reverse psychology ploy to get people to use it more often so that I will become desensitized and therefore not as triggered when it does happen.

At least that is my story.....

[AZGrizFan]

ICU bed availability non-existent or critically low in multiple Florida counties:

https://bi.ahca.myflorida.com/t/ABICC/v ... %3Aembed=y

As of this post, Broward at 16% capacity, Hillsborough at 16% capacity, Orange at 16% capacity, Miami-Dade at 17% capacity.

You might want to reread the info on that link, Trip. And as you do, think about this tidbit: “Empty beds do not pay the bills”.

[CID1990]

There’s something personally odd to me about this virus..

When there is something that appears to be statistically uncommon, like getting struck my lightning, dying of the flu, or dying of COVID-19, I expect to not personally know anyone who has made the stat sheets.

For example, I don’t know anyone who has died of influenza, ever. I don’t know anyone who had been struck by lightning. If I hadn’t been a cop, I wouldn’t know anyone who had been a victim of an armed robbery or a forcible rape. But I know at least 20 COVID deaths off the top of my head. That is not to suggest that the death rate is higher than we think, just that for such a low fatality rate, I know people who have been affected. All of them were older than 60 so far (but I have a classmate in ICU right now).

One thing that bothers me more than the death rate is the rate of bad outcomes. If you wind up in ICU on a ventilator and are lucky enough to survive, there is a smorgasbord of complications that people are experiencing that some people like me would consider not being ventilated. Permanent kidney failure is the big one. There are COVID survivors who are now looking forward to dialysis for 6 hours every 3 days for the rest of their lives. Organ damage (particularly lung and kidney) is prevalent, as are other complications that we do not see in people who have recovered from things like the flu. There are also what appears to be neurological aftereffects as well.

If I were to get this virus and then wind up having to go on morphine just to combat the pain in my lungs from coughing, and my O2 levels were dropping to the point that a vent and induced coma was medically indicated, I may give serious consideration to refusing the ventilator. The little bit of scholarship coming out on complications after surviving this disease isn’t pretty, and I’ve always been a quality of life guy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Maybe you are not thinking of the correct statistically uncommon events. Car accidents maybe?

Well car accidents kill more people than all those other things - so yeah


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AZGrizFan]

There’s something personally odd to me about this virus..

When there is something that appears to be statistically uncommon, like getting struck my lightning, dying of the flu, or dying of COVID-19, I expect to not personally know anyone who has made the stat sheets.

For example, I don’t know anyone who has died of influenza, ever. I don’t know anyone who had been struck by lightning. If I hadn’t been a cop, I wouldn’t know anyone who had been a victim of an armed robbery or a forcible rape. But I know at least 20 COVID deaths off the top of my head. That is not to suggest that the death rate is higher than we think, just that for such a low fatality rate, I know people who have been affected. All of them were older than 60 so far (but I have a classmate in ICU right now).

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agreed, CID. Although my experience is 180 degrees out from yours. I know a number of women (including three direct relatives) who’ve suffered the trauma of forcible rape. I know of three individuals who died from flu complications. I know four individuals who’ve been robbed at gunpoint. I know NO ONE who’s died from COVID. 24 of our employees have tested positive, but no one has had any serious complications, been hospitalized, or died. Several close friends have tested positive. None have been hospitalized, intubated or had serious aftereffects. So, in a roundabout way, I know personally or know OF a couple hundred COVID-positive individuals and we’re batting 1000% right now....

[GannonFan]

ICU bed availability non-existent or critically low in multiple Florida counties:

https://bi.ahca.myflorida.com/t/ABICC/v ... %3Aembed=y

As of this post, Broward at 16% capacity, Hillsborough at 16% capacity, Orange at 16% capacity, Miami-Dade at 17% capacity.

You might want to reread the info on that link, Trip. And as you do, think about this tidbit: “Empty beds do not pay the bills”.

That's what makes it hard to even listen to news headlines or posts like Trip's there. I don't think there's a single case so far in America, during the entirety of the COVID period, where a person died of COVID, or even had a bad medical outcome, that was attributable to overcrowding and not being able to receive the care they would've had it not been overcrowded. Even NYC in the dark early days still treated everyone and overflow facilities weren't used. So far, same thing here in the southern states, except even less dire than NY was because of the age group being infected, the knowledge we know now in terms of how to treat this, and so on.

I'm not saying COVID isn't a dire emergency, but we've shown that we have the medical capabilities and facilities, and the flexibleness in those areas, to more than cope with the surges we have seen so far, both at the initial stages of this and now in this recent summer surge. Where the concern and focus should be isn't on this, but rather on our ability to carry on with the important facets of life - education, work, societal interactions - and what needs to be done to do that. Scaring people about hospital and ICU capacities are not working, especially as they carry false implications. Focusing on what's needed to allow those other things to happen should be the focus. It's nuanced and it doesn't fit into a pre-conceived political perspective, so that's probably why we aren't doing that at the national level, in government or the news media, but it's what matters to everyday life for regular folks.

[Pwns]

I was thinking the exact same thing CID said. I don't know anyone who has died from Covid and I to my knowledge I don't know anyone who knows anyone who has, either.

My working theory is that when enough data is gathered it will show the people hit hardest are the poorest and the most affluent (because they travel internationally more and are around more people who do travel internationally).

[Ibanez]

I think I'm in love with the nurse.

Idiot: "You're gonna refuse me service at a hospital for not wearing a mask?"
Nurse: *shrugs* "Yeah pretty much."

Canada- who cares.

I don't understand the anger over a mask. One would think it'd be accepted to wear a mask in order to help vulnerable people.

I don't care about the lies/confusing information at the beginning. It doesn't matter.

[Gil Dobie]

St Paul Heart and Vascular Clinic hasn't gotten the word that masks and social distancing don't work and covid is a Donk hoax. Everyone in the building was required to have a mask and social distance.

[UNI88]

From SI's Monday Morning Quarterback

Thus, the message that NFLPA assistant executive director for external affairs George Atallah wanted me to pass along on Saturday: “If you want football to start on time, wear a mask.”

I asked Atallah if that was addressing the players. He said no. It was for everyone.

This applies to more than football.

[kalm]

You might want to reread the info on that link, Trip. And as you do, think about this tidbit: “Empty beds do not pay the bills”.

That's what makes it hard to even listen to news headlines or posts like Trip's there. I don't think there's a single case so far in America, during the entirety of the COVID period, where a person died of COVID, or even had a bad medical outcome, that was attributable to overcrowding and not being able to receive the care they would've had it not been overcrowded. Even NYC in the dark early days still treated everyone and overflow facilities weren't used. So far, same thing here in the southern states, except even less dire than NY was because of the age group being infected, the knowledge we know now in terms of how to treat this, and so on.

I'm not saying COVID isn't a dire emergency, but we've shown that we have the medical capabilities and facilities, and the flexibleness in those areas, to more than cope with the surges we have seen so far, both at the initial stages of this and now in this recent summer surge. Where the concern and focus should be isn't on this, but rather on our ability to carry on with the important facets of life - education, work, societal interactions - and what needs to be done to do that. Scaring people about hospital and ICU capacities are not working, especially as they carry false implications. Focusing on what's needed to allow those other things to happen should be the focus. It's nuanced and it doesn't fit into a pre-conceived political perspective, so that's probably why we aren't doing that at the national level, in government or the news media, but it's what matters to everyday life for regular folks.

I want to agree but none of us know any of that to be true yet...especially the policy makers who’s political careers are on the line if they get some of it wrong.

Buckle up.

[SDHornet]

Maybe you are not thinking of the correct statistically uncommon events. Car accidents maybe?

Well car accidents kill more people than all those other things - so yeah


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ban cars! Stop all driving until deaths stop.

Did I do that right?

[SDHornet]

Canada- who cares.

I don't understand the anger over a mask. One would think it'd be accepted to wear a mask in order to help vulnerable people.

I don't care about the lies/confusing information at the beginning. It doesn't matter.

Agree. The push back is the blatant cover and looking the other way of the mass protests that didn't have "everyone" wearing masks and now turning around and issuing mandates that everyone has to wear one all while claiming the protests didn't spread the virus.

Personally I wear a mask when in the public and indoors and have no issue with it. I take issue with people thinking one needs to be worn at all times, everywhere when not at home (i.e. when at the park or on a walk when social distancing can be maintained, and don't get me started on people who wear them in cars when driving alone ).

[Skjellyfetti]

don't get me started on people who wear them in cars when driving alone ).

Oh please. Go right ahead. Tell us what's wrong with this.

Did the person just leave from one errand and is en route to another errand and didn't feel like taking it off? Do you have any idea why they're wearing the mask? Why does it bother you?

[SeattleGriz]

don't get me started on people who wear them in cars when driving alone ).

Oh please. Go right ahead. Tell us what's wrong with this.

Did the person just leave from one errand and is en route to another errand and didn't feel like taking it off? Do you have any idea why they're wearing the mask? Why does it bother you?

I saw people wearing masks while riding their bikes the other day. Didn't bother me, but I sure think they are crazy.