UNI88 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:47 am
It would be even more ironic if people who consider themselves red-blooded, law-abiding, Murcian patriots went even further off the deep end in defying federal authority months after decrying the protests and riots in cities.
To be honest, some of those people have been defying federal authority in certain areas before most of us were born here on this forum. They just didn't burn anything while they were doing it.
You are correct except some were not afraid to use violence and/or set up barriers to establish their own little "autonomous zones".
The irony will be that after they supported the use of federal force against protesters and rioters they will be decrying the use of federal force against them or causes they support.
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
To be honest, some of those people have been defying federal authority in certain areas before most of us were born here on this forum. They just didn't burn anything while they were doing it.
You are correct except some were not afraid to use violence and/or set up barriers to establish their own little "autonomous zones".
The irony will be that after they supported the use of federal force against protesters and rioters they will be decrying the use of federal force against them or causes they support.
We are thinking about two different instances (I think). I am talking things that never made it into the news, poaching, DNR individual disappearing, taking pot shots at fed vehicles, etc. Correct me if I am wrong, but you are talking about Branch Davidians and their ilk?
And I fully agree that there is irony there but that wasn't my point. Unless you are bringing in outside people, the local enforcement is just going to ignore that order at best and worst take an active hand in thwarting it (it is community/family first, federal second for many of those people). There is a huge difference in mindset between urban/city vs rural. Especially areas that have been poorer rural for generations. Non-locals entering an area or being seen is often talked about over morning coffee at the local diner or cafe. The rural grapevine is faster than a email.
“The best of all things is to learn. Money can be lost or stolen, health and strength may fail, but what you have committed to your mind is yours forever.” – Louis L’Amour
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” - G. Michael Hopf
"I am neither especially clever nor especially gifted. I am only very, very curious.” – Albert Einstein
UNI88 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:51 pm
You are correct except some were not afraid to use violence and/or set up barriers to establish their own little "autonomous zones".
The irony will be that after they supported the use of federal force against protesters and rioters they will be decrying the use of federal force against them or causes they support.
We are thinking about two different instances (I think). I am talking things that never made it into the news, poaching, DNR individual disappearing, taking pot shots at fed vehicles, etc. Correct me if I am wrong, but you are talking about Branch Davidians and their ilk?
And I fully agree that there is irony there but that wasn't my point. Unless you are bringing in outside people, the local enforcement is just going to ignore that order at best and worst take an active hand in thwarting it (it is community/family first, federal second for many of those people). There is a huge difference in mindset between urban/city vs rural. Especially areas that have been poorer rural for generations. Non-locals entering an area or being seen is often talked about over morning coffee at the local diner or cafe. The rural grapevine is faster than a email.
I'm talking about both types and I'm also talking about outsiders coming in to enforce the laws. It's a continuation on my feeling that DHS coming into Portland was overstepping the bounds. It might have been legal but it shouldn't have been a Fed role. Murcan patriots in rural American cheered them on but will flip the playbook and freak out if Feds come into rural areas to enforce mask mandates or some other federal rules. The growth of the federal police bureaucracy and/or erosion of civil liberties should concern everyone regardless of the target. You never know when you or something you value will be next.
I grew up in a small town in Iowa so I get the rural feeling toward outsiders and the grapevine. We moved there when I was three and there were people that thought I was still an outsider when I graduated high school because I wasn't born there.
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
We are thinking about two different instances (I think). I am talking things that never made it into the news, poaching, DNR individual disappearing, taking pot shots at fed vehicles, etc. Correct me if I am wrong, but you are talking about Branch Davidians and their ilk?
And I fully agree that there is irony there but that wasn't my point. Unless you are bringing in outside people, the local enforcement is just going to ignore that order at best and worst take an active hand in thwarting it (it is community/family first, federal second for many of those people). There is a huge difference in mindset between urban/city vs rural. Especially areas that have been poorer rural for generations. Non-locals entering an area or being seen is often talked about over morning coffee at the local diner or cafe. The rural grapevine is faster than a email.
I'm talking about both types and I'm also talking about outsiders coming in to enforce the laws. It's a continuation on my feeling that DHS coming into Portland was overstepping the bounds. It might have been legal but it shouldn't have been a Fed role. Murcan patriots in rural American cheered them on but will flip the playbook and freak out if Feds come into rural areas to enforce mask mandates or some other federal rules. The growth of the federal police bureaucracy and/or erosion of civil liberties should concern everyone regardless of the target. You never know when you or something you value will be next.
I grew up in a small town in Iowa so I get the rural feeling toward outsiders and the grapevine. We moved there when I was three and there were people that thought I was still an outsider when I graduated high school because I wasn't born there.
I agree it should of been local but when the local force isn't doing anything, do you just let the things get out of control or do you step in? It is a double edge sword, IMHO. And fully agree on the bureaucracy and civil liberties.
I figured you would get my picture of the rural areas, and not everybody in the rural America cheered them on. Most of the people I talked to put the blame squarely on the Mayor and city council, and while there might of been some chuckling about what the Feds are doing, they were well aware of the slope we are on. Usually if one talked long enough, that was the next point in the conversation.
“The best of all things is to learn. Money can be lost or stolen, health and strength may fail, but what you have committed to your mind is yours forever.” – Louis L’Amour
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” - G. Michael Hopf
"I am neither especially clever nor especially gifted. I am only very, very curious.” – Albert Einstein
Credit to this goes to Oline on AGS. Thought it was an interesting enough article to share over here.
The first round of our Franklin Templeton–Gallup Economics of Recovery Study has already yielded three powerful and surprising insights:
1. Americans still misperceive the risks of death from COVID-19 for different age cohorts—to a shocking extent;
2. The misperception is greater for those who identify as Democrats, and for those who rely more on social media for information; partisanship and misinformation, to misquote Thomas Dolby, are blinding us from science; and
3. We find a sizable “safety premium” that could become a significant driver of inflation as the recovery gets underway.
Six months into this pandemic, Americans still dramatically misunderstand the risk of dying from COVID-19:
On average, Americans believe that people aged 55 and older account for just over half of total COVID-19 deaths; the actual figure is 92%.
Americans believe that people aged 44 and younger account for about 30% of total deaths; the actual figure is 2.7%.
Americans overestimate the risk of death from COVID-19 for people aged 24 and younger
by a factor of 50; and they think the risk for people aged 65 and older is half of what it actually is (40% vs 80%).
These results are nothing short of stunning. Mortality data have shown from the very beginning that the COVID-19 virus age-discriminates, with deaths overwhelmingly concentrated in people who are older and suffer comorbidities. This is perhaps the only uncontroversial piece of evidence we have about this virus. Nearly all US fatalities have been among people older than 55; and yet a large number of Americans are still convinced that the risk to those younger than 55 is almost the same as to those who are older.
“The best of all things is to learn. Money can be lost or stolen, health and strength may fail, but what you have committed to your mind is yours forever.” – Louis L’Amour
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” - G. Michael Hopf
"I am neither especially clever nor especially gifted. I am only very, very curious.” – Albert Einstein
Winterborn wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:44 am
The misperception is greater for those who identify as Democrats
TDS will do that to you. I can't tell you how many friends I have that have completely lost their minds the last three years.
In all seriousness, I can't decide who I want to win in November. I've loved seeing liberals, who I don't know or like, heads explode. But I want some of my old friends back from the padded room. If Trump wins, my own well being doesn't change. If Biden wins, my own well being doesn't change. Most folks that think the POTUS actually impacts their life are disingenuous at best. We were led to believe that if Trump got elected they'd be rounding up gays, women, minorities, etc.... but NONE of that has happened. Before you say they are rounding up illegals... they've been doing that long before Trump.
Winterborn wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:44 am
The misperception is greater for those who identify as Democrats
TDS will do that to you. I can't tell you how many friends I have that have completely lost their minds the last three years.
In all seriousness, I can't decide who I want to win in November. I've loved seeing liberals, who I don't know or like, heads explode. But I want some of my old friends back from the padded room. If Trump wins, my own well being doesn't change. If Biden wins, my own well being doesn't change. Most folks that think the POTUS actually impacts their life are disingenuous at best. We were led to believe that if Trump got elected they'd be rounding up gays, women, minorities, etc.... but NONE of that has happened. Before you say they are rounding up illegals... they've been doing that long before Trump.
Again that's been my disappointment over these past few years - the Democrats consistently saying that voting for Trump is the "end of the Republic" or the "end of democracy". That's been the consistent message from before the 2016 election to all the way through last night's conclusion of the Democratic convention. And on top of that, a lot of the media has moved into those same hystericals and are pushing the same mantra.
I don't like Trump, I didn't vote for him and I won't ever vote for him. But our country is not on the precipice of ceasing to exist either. I don't like that there was foreign interference in our past elections, but I also don't like that political games were played with that information and that the transition from one administration to the other was purposely mangled in order to hobble the incoming one. I don't like that Trump is a detestable human being and confirms as much with almost every time he speaks. And I don't like that his incompetence, and the unhinged reactions to him, have led us to a place right now where we have struggled so mightily with COVID and how to deal with it. I'm torn if Trump winning or losing in November will really change anything, though. Once you've gone crazy, it's hard to see how you come back from that. Both sides are crazy right now (with the left possibly even more so).
TDS will do that to you. I can't tell you how many friends I have that have completely lost their minds the last three years.
In all seriousness, I can't decide who I want to win in November. I've loved seeing liberals, who I don't know or like, heads explode. But I want some of my old friends back from the padded room. If Trump wins, my own well being doesn't change. If Biden wins, my own well being doesn't change. Most folks that think the POTUS actually impacts their life are disingenuous at best. We were led to believe that if Trump got elected they'd be rounding up gays, women, minorities, etc.... but NONE of that has happened. Before you say they are rounding up illegals... they've been doing that long before Trump.
Again that's been my disappointment over these past few years - the Democrats consistently saying that voting for Trump is the "end of the Republic" or the "end of democracy". That's been the consistent message from before the 2016 election to all the way through last night's conclusion of the Democratic convention. And on top of that, a lot of the media has moved into those same hystericals and are pushing the same mantra.
I don't like Trump, I didn't vote for him and I won't ever vote for him. But our country is not on the precipice of ceasing to exist either. I don't like that there was foreign interference in our past elections, but I also don't like that political games were played with that information and that the transition from one administration to the other was purposely mangled in order to hobble the incoming one. I don't like that Trump is a detestable human being and confirms as much with almost every time he speaks. And I don't like that his incompetence, and the unhinged reactions to him, have led us to a place right now where we have struggled so mightily with COVID and how to deal with it. I'm torn if Trump winning or losing in November will really change anything, though. Once you've gone crazy, it's hard to see how you come back from that. Both sides are crazy right now (with the left possibly even more so).
read that first paragraph again, then spend some time trying to reconcile it with the left’s belief that they’re leading from “hope” while the right is leading from “fear”.
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
Again that's been my disappointment over these past few years - the Democrats consistently saying that voting for Trump is the "end of the Republic" or the "end of democracy". That's been the consistent message from before the 2016 election to all the way through last night's conclusion of the Democratic convention. And on top of that, a lot of the media has moved into those same hystericals and are pushing the same mantra.
I don't like Trump, I didn't vote for him and I won't ever vote for him. But our country is not on the precipice of ceasing to exist either. I don't like that there was foreign interference in our past elections, but I also don't like that political games were played with that information and that the transition from one administration to the other was purposely mangled in order to hobble the incoming one. I don't like that Trump is a detestable human being and confirms as much with almost every time he speaks. And I don't like that his incompetence, and the unhinged reactions to him, have led us to a place right now where we have struggled so mightily with COVID and how to deal with it. I'm torn if Trump winning or losing in November will really change anything, though. Once you've gone crazy, it's hard to see how you come back from that. Both sides are crazy right now (with the left possibly even more so).
read that first paragraph again, then spend some time trying to reconcile it with the left’s belief that they’re leading from “hope” while the right is leading from “fear”.
Agreed - the left is incredibly disingenuous when they say they lead from hope. At the end of the day, they're a political party that's trying to get and then stay in power. I don't take either the Dems or GOP as anything other than that right now.
Oh, good news - gave blood the other day for the 3rd time since the pandemic hit - trying to make it a habit now and to do something good during the pandemic. This last time the Red Cross is now testing the blood for COVID 19 antibodies. My test came back negative, meaning I don't have antibodies, so I've never gotten COVID or I had it long enough ago that the antibodies are gone or I had a strain they don't test for. Considering I've been at work since the pandemic started, interact with 30+ people a day, went on vacation to the Jersey shore for a week (beach and boardwalk), and taken some college campus trips to Ohio and New York since, I think that's pretty good on my part.
GannonFan wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:36 am
Oh, good news - gave blood the other day for the 3rd time since the pandemic hit - trying to make it a habit now and to do something good during the pandemic. This last time the Red Cross is now testing the blood for COVID 19 antibodies. My test came back negative, meaning I don't have antibodies, so I've never gotten COVID or I had it long enough ago that the antibodies are gone or I had a strain they don't test for. Considering I've been at work since the pandemic started, interact with 30+ people a day, went on vacation to the Jersey shore for a week (beach and boardwalk), and taken some college campus trips to Ohio and New York since, I think that's pretty good on my part.
That is interesting. I have been curious if I have antibodies or not and donating blood would be a cheap way of finding out.
“The best of all things is to learn. Money can be lost or stolen, health and strength may fail, but what you have committed to your mind is yours forever.” – Louis L’Amour
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” - G. Michael Hopf
"I am neither especially clever nor especially gifted. I am only very, very curious.” – Albert Einstein
GannonFan wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:36 am
Oh, good news - gave blood the other day for the 3rd time since the pandemic hit - trying to make it a habit now and to do something good during the pandemic. This last time the Red Cross is now testing the blood for COVID 19 antibodies. My test came back negative, meaning I don't have antibodies, so I've never gotten COVID or I had it long enough ago that the antibodies are gone or I had a strain they don't test for. Considering I've been at work since the pandemic started, interact with 30+ people a day, went on vacation to the Jersey shore for a week (beach and boardwalk), and taken some college campus trips to Ohio and New York since, I think that's pretty good on my part.
That is interesting. I have been curious if I have antibodies or not and donating blood would be a cheap way of finding out.
Agreed, it's a nice perk. Heck, I think the Red Cross is even giving out $10 Amazon gift cards for anyone who donates in August as an extra perk. I wasn't giving blood to get that, but I'll take it and the antibody test.
GannonFan wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:36 am
Oh, good news - gave blood the other day for the 3rd time since the pandemic hit - trying to make it a habit now and to do something good during the pandemic. This last time the Red Cross is now testing the blood for COVID 19 antibodies. My test came back negative, meaning I don't have antibodies, so I've never gotten COVID or I had it long enough ago that the antibodies are gone or I had a strain they don't test for. Considering I've been at work since the pandemic started, interact with 30+ people a day, went on vacation to the Jersey shore for a week (beach and boardwalk), and taken some college campus trips to Ohio and New York since, I think that's pretty good on my part.
Good on ya, GF! Our good deed was to donate every cent of the Covid relief payments we received (I thought we made too much money to get them, but that’s the guvmint for you) to local food banks. We plan to do the same if it happens again.
Interesting interview with a Mayo Clinic Dr Bill Morice on sports and Covid. Starts about half way thru the podcast. Discussed that the virus does not appear to be mutation fast like influenza. Mentioned some of the athletic contacts were concerned because they said 5 players were hospitalized. Discussion on more test more available, but the accuracy may not be as good.
CID1990 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:31 pm
Well, it is kind of hard to take the left’s histrionics seriously.
Mitt Romney was the end of the republic because he said he had binders full of women and carried the dog box on top of his car
Didn't the right have similar histrionics about Obama, and the left about Dubya, and the right about Clinton? The level of hysterics and vitriol does seem to be on upward trend.
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
CID1990 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:31 pm
Well, it is kind of hard to take the left’s histrionics seriously.
Mitt Romney was the end of the republic because he said he had binders full of women and carried the dog box on top of his car
Didn't the right have similar histrionics about Obama, and the left about Dubya, and the right about Clinton? The level of hysterics and vitriol does seem to be on upward trend.
UNI88 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:00 am
Didn't the right have similar histrionics about Obama, and the left about Dubya, and the right about Clinton? The level of hysterics and vitriol does seem to be on upward trend.
There you go again....
Am I wrong?
I can't help it, it's who I am.
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
Winterborn wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:44 am
Credit to this goes to Oline on AGS. Thought it was an interesting enough article to share over here.
The first round of our Franklin Templeton–Gallup Economics of Recovery Study has already yielded three powerful and surprising insights:
1. Americans still misperceive the risks of death from COVID-19 for different age cohorts—to a shocking extent;
2. The misperception is greater for those who identify as Democrats, and for those who rely more on social media for information; partisanship and misinformation, to misquote Thomas Dolby, are blinding us from science; and
3. We find a sizable “safety premium” that could become a significant driver of inflation as the recovery gets underway.
Six months into this pandemic, Americans still dramatically misunderstand the risk of dying from COVID-19:
On average, Americans believe that people aged 55 and older account for just over half of total COVID-19 deaths; the actual figure is 92%.
Americans believe that people aged 44 and younger account for about 30% of total deaths; the actual figure is 2.7%.
Americans overestimate the risk of death from COVID-19 for people aged 24 and younger
by a factor of 50; and they think the risk for people aged 65 and older is half of what it actually is (40% vs 80%).
These results are nothing short of stunning. Mortality data have shown from the very beginning that the COVID-19 virus age-discriminates, with deaths overwhelmingly concentrated in people who are older and suffer comorbidities. This is perhaps the only uncontroversial piece of evidence we have about this virus. Nearly all US fatalities have been among people older than 55; and yet a large number of Americans are still convinced that the risk to those younger than 55 is almost the same as to those who are older.
The thing is the Right keeps thinking the left is afraid of covid, wears mask and thinks most of america will die, the left thinks the right doesn't care about elderly people, kill grandma and grandpa. It's the right and left media that project this, and the right passes it on with agenda based changes to social media, and the left passes it on to social media with agenda based changes. Covid does lead to hospitalization of some people, and the slow the spread process started by Trump, was to keep the ICU units free. Most of America never experienced the packed ICU units, but there have been a few places where that has happened. This really isn't something that should have been political. I can't even watch Fox or CNN because of the flat out mis-information they spew. I follow the Mayo Clinic website and hold my tongue on all this political based, FOX/CNN BS on facebook.
CID1990 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:31 pm
Well, it is kind of hard to take the left’s histrionics seriously.
Mitt Romney was the end of the republic because he said he had binders full of women and carried the dog box on top of his car
Didn't the right have similar histrionics about Obama, and the left about Dubya, and the right about Clinton? The level of hysterics and vitriol does seem to be on upward trend.
Correct
But right now I’m talking about who’s currently predicting the end of tha republic
And let’s face it
Communism = end of the republic
Fascism = end of the republic
Dog box on top of venture capitalist’s car = not so much
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
"You however, are an insufferable ankle biting mental chihuahua..." - Clizzoris
We are thinking about two different instances (I think). I am talking things that never made it into the news, poaching, DNR individual disappearing, taking pot shots at fed vehicles, etc. Correct me if I am wrong, but you are talking about Branch Davidians and their ilk?
And I fully agree that there is irony there but that wasn't my point. Unless you are bringing in outside people, the local enforcement is just going to ignore that order at best and worst take an active hand in thwarting it (it is community/family first, federal second for many of those people). There is a huge difference in mindset between urban/city vs rural. Especially areas that have been poorer rural for generations. Non-locals entering an area or being seen is often talked about over morning coffee at the local diner or cafe. The rural grapevine is faster than a email.
I'm talking about both types and I'm also talking about outsiders coming in to enforce the laws. It's a continuation on my feeling that DHS coming into Portland was overstepping the bounds. It might have been legal but it shouldn't have been a Fed role. Murcan patriots in rural American cheered them on but will flip the playbook and freak out if Feds come into rural areas to enforce mask mandates or some other federal rules. The growth of the federal police bureaucracy and/or erosion of civil liberties should concern everyone regardless of the target. You never know when you or something you value will be next.
I grew up in a small town in Iowa so I get the rural feeling toward outsiders and the grapevine. We moved there when I was three and there were people that thought I was still an outsider when I graduated high school because I wasn't born there.
A military exercise in Texas turned the whole State into a hysterical whimpering mess when Obama was prez.
The best way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of opinion but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - Noam Chomsky
My conk buddy said he’s voting for the capitalist. I thought...”the senator from MBNA?”.
The best way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of opinion but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - Noam Chomsky
Winterborn wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:44 am
The misperception is greater for those who identify as Democrats
TDS will do that to you. I can't tell you how many friends I have that have completely lost their minds the last three years.
In all seriousness, I can't decide who I want to win in November. I've loved seeing liberals, who I don't know or like, heads explode. But I want some of my old friends back from the padded room. If Trump wins, my own well being doesn't change. If Biden wins, my own well being doesn't change. Most folks that think the POTUS actually impacts their life are disingenuous at best. We were led to believe that if Trump got elected they'd be rounding up gays, women, minorities, etc.... but NONE of that has happened. Before you say they are rounding up illegals... they've been doing that long before Trump.
Nobody here is less impacted by the result than myself, but that isn't true for my kids and grandkid unfortunately
The best way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of opinion but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - Noam Chomsky
UNI88 wrote:
Didn't the right have similar histrionics about Obama, and the left about Dubya, and the right about Clinton? The level of hysterics and vitriol does seem to be on upward trend.
Correct
But right now I’m talking about who’s currently predicting the end of tha republic
And let’s face it
Communism = end of the republic
Fascism = end of the republic
Dog box on top of venture capitalist’s car = not so much
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
And the histrionics over Romney were complete BS. How far would you have to go back to find a major party candidate who had better qualifications than Romney?
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
