Here We Go Again (Kenosha, WI)

[houndawg]

Btw, the fact that kid is urban patrolling with a rifle that fucking long and still pwned an armed mob trying to kill him makes it all the more epic.

The best part was after the 2nd altercation (when they attacked him on the ground) ended he just stood up and walked off like a mother fucking boss.

He won't be walking like a boss in the Big House. He'll be walking like a punk with a very tender asshole

[GannonFan]

I get all that, and it makes sense - aggravating the cop during a traffic stop or other interaction is never a good idea and it's a big factor in almost all of these incidents that have gone bad.

With that said, Black people have an important point that other folks don't have - the average Black person gets pulled over far more often than a person of another race. When I get pulled over once every decade, I know I've gotten pulled over for something I did wrong (speeding, running a stop sign, etc). When you get pulled over 20-30 times a decade you start to get a little pissed off because some of those are surely for driving Black and not for a real violation. The more you get pulled over for no good reason the more likely you are to react negatively. That's surely something we can fix - be better about tracking and recording stops by police by race/gender of those stopped.

I don’t think 20% more likely to be pulled over = that blacks on average are pulled over 20-30x a decade. I’m sure some are, but that has to be the extreme end.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/21/us/polic ... index.html

Assuming that 20% is really a meaningful result. Even later in that same article they say there are tons of differences from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

"It's good to have a general understanding, but each place has its caveats, and each jurisdiction has its own limitations or ways of doing things," Shoemaker says.

For instance, in Nashville, she says, the data for the area was so specific that a local police department was able to see that there was a preponderance of stops in mostly poor, black areas for things like taillights and license plates.

If you average it out over the nation you just end up with that 20% more (which is by itself not all that good either). But you likely have way too many cases in isolated areas where it's much worse. When you hear story after story of people having to leave for work earlier because they have to build in the time involved with being stopped by a cop (especially when going from their home, which is mostly black, to their work in an area that is mostly white) then you have to really consider it. Will Smith (celebrity, so take it for what it's worth) said he got pulled over 20-30 times as a kid in in Philly. I think we would be naively optimistic to think this isn't happening.

[GannonFan]

The best part was after the 2nd altercation (when they attacked him on the ground) ended he just stood up and walked off like a mother fucking boss.

He won't be walking like a boss in the Big House. He'll be walking like a punk with a very tender asshole

With a decent lawyer he'll never do time. Heck, there're tons of video evidence already that's going to muddy the waters. All depends on that first shooting - assuming he can prove self defense in that one and he's going to walk free, other than minor stuff like gun possession and such.

[Winterborn]

He won't be walking like a boss in the Big House. He'll be walking like a punk with a very tender asshole

With a decent lawyer he'll never do time. Heck, there're tons of video evidence already that's going to muddy the waters. All depends on that first shooting - assuming he can prove self defense in that one and he's going to walk free, other than minor stuff like gun possession and such.

And he has more than a decent lawyer.

[CID1990]

He only votes Libertarian when he thinks his vote doesn't matter

You’re such a hypocrite. You’d be perfectly fine with a Green Party member who voted for Biden because he thought his vote didn’t matter.

No kidding

Don’t you just love the contempt from all the retail partisans?

God forbid someone would actually vote for the party that most closely fits their own principles


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[BDKJMU]

I don't disagree. But it seems like nearly all the victims of these high profile cases have something else in common too.

You'll have to elaborate - what did Floyd have similar with the guy in Konosha, other than race?

Long rap sheet.
Resisted arrest.

[89Hen]

I don't disagree. But it seems like nearly all the victims of these high profile cases have something else in common too.

You'll have to elaborate - what did Floyd have similar with the guy in Konosha, other than race?

Criminal records, meaning they have more contact with the police in official capacity.

[Ivytalk]

You’re such a hypocrite. You’d be perfectly fine with a Green Party member who voted for Biden because he thought his vote didn’t matter.

No kidding

Don’t you just love the contempt from all the retail partisans?

God forbid someone would actually vote for the party that most closely fits their own principles


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I’m voting for Jorgensen and for most of the LP candidates on the DE state ballot. I’m undecided about one guy: I may go GOP on that office.

[clenz]

Wonder why this gentleman was allowed to scream at a cop actively turn his back to a cop reach into a vehicle get into a vehicle hide his hands from the officer while in the vehicle and still not get shot

If that was a black man he would have at least 37 holes in his body right now. he would have been ripped from the vehicle there would have been 13 other cop cars screaming up to it

But just fucking comply right





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[SeattleGriz]

So gratifying to watch.

[SDHornet]

The best part was after the 2nd altercation (when they attacked him on the ground) ended he just stood up and walked off like a mother fucking boss.

He won't be walking like a boss in the Big House. He'll be walking like a punk with a very tender asshole

Sounds like something you recycled from one of your Zimmerman beat down threads. How'd that work our for ya?

[SDHornet]

Legal breakdown by Colion Noir:

[93henfan]

[houndawg]

He won't be walking like a boss in the Big House. He'll be walking like a punk with a very tender asshole

Sounds like something you recycled from one of your Zimmerman beat down threads. How'd that work our for ya?

Turns out I was right all along,

You'll be pushing to try the incel kid as an adult I assume?

[Baldy]

Wonder why this gentleman was allowed to scream at a cop actively turn his back to a cop reach into a vehicle get into a vehicle hide his hands from the officer while in the vehicle and still not get shot

If that was a black man he would have at least 37 holes in his body right now. he would have been ripped from the vehicle there would have been 13 other cop cars screaming up to it

But just fucking comply right





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This looks like a traffic stop, not a 911 call. This man wasn't resisting arrest. This man didn't go hands on with the cop. He was an asshole, but he was complying. Etc. Etc. Etc.

[CitadelGrad]

[houndawg]

He won't be walking like a boss in the Big House. He'll be walking like a punk with a very tender asshole

With a decent lawyer he'll never do time. Heck, there're tons of video evidence already that's going to muddy the waters. All depends on that first shooting - assuming he can prove self defense in that one and he's going to walk free, other than minor stuff like gun possession and such.

The crux of the biscuit is that the kid had no business being in the area at all, he was open carrying underage across a state line to where he is also underage. And if the story about his mom taking him to the event is true then she's in a world of shit and maybe the purchaser of the gun and ammo too assuming he wasn't able to buy tye ammo being underage. Hard to say if the self-defense defense will fly - its roughly the same situation as Ahmaud Arberry and the Georgia pigfuckers but in a different State. Be kind of ironic if they convict in Georgia and and walk free in Wisconsin

[houndawg]

Wonder why this gentleman was allowed to scream at a cop actively turn his back to a cop reach into a vehicle get into a vehicle hide his hands from the officer while in the vehicle and still not get shot

If that was a black man he would have at least 37 holes in his body right now. he would have been ripped from the vehicle there would have been 13 other cop cars screaming up to it

But just fucking comply right





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This looks like a traffic stop, not a 911 call. This man wasn't resisting arrest. This man didn't go hands on with the cop. He was an asshole, but he was complying. Etc. Etc. Etc.

If he were black he'd be lucky to survive the encounter.

[SDHornet]

Sounds like something you recycled from one of your Zimmerman beat down threads. How'd that work our for ya?

Turns out I was right all along,

You'll be pushing to try the incel kid as an adult I assume?

Let him be tried as an adult. The question is when he gets off with nothing more than a minor in possession of a firearm, will there be more riots?

Oh and this:

[SDHornet]

With a decent lawyer he'll never do time. Heck, there're tons of video evidence already that's going to muddy the waters. All depends on that first shooting - assuming he can prove self defense in that one and he's going to walk free, other than minor stuff like gun possession and such.

The crux of the biscuit is that the kid had no business being in the area at all, he was open carrying underage across a state line to where he is also underage. And if the story about his mom taking him to the event is true then she's in a world of shit and maybe the purchaser of the gun and ammo too assuming he wasn't able to buy tye ammo being underage. Hard to say if the self-defense defense will fly - its roughly the same situation as Ahmaud Arberry and the Georgia pigfuckers but in a different State. Be kind of ironic if they convict in Georgia and and walk free in Wisconsin

None of those people should have been there, hell the people he bagged lived farther away from Kenosha than he did. Also your premise ignores the fact that the WI governor turned down additional National Guard personnel. This whole night would have likely been avoided had the donk governor did his fucking job and not enabled this mob to begin with.

How many shootings and deaths have there been in Kenosha since the NG was deployed after that fateful night?

[93henfan]

For the police reform crowd, I'd like to get you on record...

Scenario: Police receive trouble call on a convicted felon threatening the caller with deadly force. Felon says he has a gun in his pocket. Convicted felon is agitated and resists arrest upon arrival of police. Taser is ineffective. He appears to be possibly under the influence of meth or PCP. Convicted felon reaches in his pocket while turning toward police.

Question: How many shots at police from the convicted felon would you require them to absorb before they're allowed to engage the convicted felon (assuming they're not instantly killed)?

I'm just trying to figure out what your vision for the future is.

[clenz]

Wonder why this gentleman was allowed to scream at a cop actively turn his back to a cop reach into a vehicle get into a vehicle hide his hands from the officer while in the vehicle and still not get shot

If that was a black man he would have at least 37 holes in his body right now. he would have been ripped from the vehicle there would have been 13 other cop cars screaming up to it

But just fucking comply right





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This looks like a traffic stop, not a 911 call. This man wasn't resisting arrest. This man didn't go hands on with the cop. He was an asshole, but he was complying. Etc. Etc. Etc.

Hands not visible
Threatening police lives
Weapon in hand
Getting in a car
Another inside the car that the police can't see also threatening them with violence
Hands can't be seen
Known weapon on that individual in his hands
Back turns to officers
Reaches in car potentially for a weapon


Now it matters if it's a traffic stop or a 911 call?

How many other made up defenses that only apply to one side do you have left?


Listen if Blake is justified then the guy that got one round should have gotten at least 7

The asshole in Washington should have gotten at least 7


If the cops in Kenosha followed protocol 100% then the other two aren't following protocol.

If those two are following protocol then Blake's weren't.


Was Blake hands on? Did he actually attack the cops before they let him walk around the car? That's terrible policing if so.

That man is resisting orders from a police officer. I believe that's called obstruction and is still also resisting.

Keep spinning because literally ever justification used in the Blake case applies to both other situations I posted. There's one key difference in the man interacting with the police.

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[clenz]

Also if you listen to the audio of that video it very clearly gets to the point where the officer tells him to get on the ground and is placing him under arrest because he starts bitching about how he knows his rights and what he's under arrest for

He is resisting arrest
He is being non-compliant
There is a angry person in the vehicle threatening that off

Both of them should have rounds and then based on the James Blake standard

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[clenz]

What about this one where the guy is actively hands on and fighting

disarms an officer of their service baton and starts beating them with it

Not a single fucking shot fired

What's your bullshit made up spin on that one



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[clenz]

For the police reform crowd, I'd like to get you on record...

Scenario: Police receive trouble call on a convicted felon threatening the caller with deadly force. Felon says he has a gun in his pocket. Convicted felon is agitated and resists arrest upon arrival of police. Taser is ineffective. He appears to be possibly under the influence of meth or PCP. Convicted felon reaches in his pocket while turning toward police.

Question: How many shots at police from the convicted felon would you require them to absorb before they're allowed to engage the convicted felon (assuming they're not instantly killed)?

I'm just trying to figure out what your vision for the future is.

If he's white he gets as many shots as he wants

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