GannonFan wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:29 am
Ibanez wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:41 am
Packing the court is dumbest things he could do. I say he should come out and say, " I will not pack the courts" but we all know that won't mollify the right. In fact, it'll only make it worst. " See, sleepy Joe is lying to you!"
He should focus on filling all the lower court vacancies, try to equal/outnumber the Trump appointees and leave the Supremes alone. We have Roberts on the court who sides with liberals (he just did this week on a mail in vote case in Pennsylvania). Even Gorsuch has shown an independent streak. Meanwhile, Breyer is in his early 80s, Thomas and Alito are in their early 70s. It is possible that one of them can be gone within the next 4-8 years. A President Biden will be able to re-calibrate the court with their replacement(s).
Leave the Supremes alone and focus on the lower courts.
I agree, it would be disastrous if he decided to pack the SCOTUS. And let's be honest, saying he won't pack the SCOTUS wouldn't just not mollify the right, it wouldn't mollify the left either, who are practically salivating at exactly how many justices will be needed to pack it properly. Once we decide that court packing is acceptable, every time the Presidency and Senate match up in terms of same party control we'll see the SCOTUS be packed yet again - it's a cycle that doesn't have an end. The whole "let the people decide" and "elections have consequences" disregards the reality that we have federal elections every two years and the electorate is fairly evenly divided and will be for the foreseeable future. If we pack the SCOTUS every time the electorate convulses and gives the other part of the duopoly control then we won't have to worry about an infrastructure bill, we'll have tons of jobs associated with a never-ending expansion of the SCOTUS building.
In addition, packing the SCOTUS before anything happens is even more shortsighted. What has the SCOTUS really ruled on, other than Citizens United, that has been so controversial and such a supposed swing to the right? We seem to be advocating a potential death-spiral change based upon things that haven't happened yet. If Roe would be overturned that would be different. If the ACA was overturned I'm not sure that would justify court packing - see why it failed and correct it. And really, Citizens United was decided in 2010 - where has the legislation or other congressional action been since then to try to use that as guidance for what can be done to put rules on campaign spending? Court cases are always templates for what isn't allowed and what is allowed to pass Constitutional muster. We've spent the last decade now whining about Citizens and doing nothing legislatively when we could have spent some of the past 10 years figuring out how to work in that reality.
GannonFan wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:29 am
Ibanez wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:41 am
Packing the court is dumbest things he could do. I say he should come out and say, " I will not pack the courts" but we all know that won't mollify the right. In fact, it'll only make it worst. " See, sleepy Joe is lying to you!"
He should focus on filling all the lower court vacancies, try to equal/outnumber the Trump appointees and leave the Supremes alone. We have Roberts on the court who sides with liberals (he just did this week on a mail in vote case in Pennsylvania). Even Gorsuch has shown an independent streak. Meanwhile, Breyer is in his early 80s, Thomas and Alito are in their early 70s. It is possible that one of them can be gone within the next 4-8 years. A President Biden will be able to re-calibrate the court with their replacement(s).
Leave the Supremes alone and focus on the lower courts.
I agree, it would be disastrous if he decided to pack the SCOTUS. And let's be honest, saying he won't pack the SCOTUS wouldn't just not mollify the right, it wouldn't mollify the left either, who are practically salivating at exactly how many justices will be needed to pack it properly. Once we decide that court packing is acceptable, every time the Presidency and Senate match up in terms of same party control we'll see the SCOTUS be packed yet again - it's a cycle that doesn't have an end. The whole "let the people decide" and "elections have consequences" disregards the reality that we have federal elections every two years and the electorate is fairly evenly divided and will be for the foreseeable future. If we pack the SCOTUS every time the electorate convulses and gives the other part of the duopoly control then we won't have to worry about an infrastructure bill, we'll have tons of jobs associated with a never-ending expansion of the SCOTUS building.
In addition, packing the SCOTUS before anything happens is even more shortsighted. What has the SCOTUS really ruled on, other than Citizens United, that has been so controversial and such a supposed swing to the right? We seem to be advocating a potential death-spiral change based upon things that haven't happened yet. If Roe would be overturned that would be different. If the ACA was overturned I'm not sure that would justify court packing - see why it failed and correct it. And really, Citizens United was decided in 2010 - where has the legislation or other congressional action been since then to try to use that as guidance for what can be done to put rules on campaign spending? Court cases are always templates for what isn't allowed and what is allowed to pass Constitutional muster. We've spent the last decade now whining about Citizens and doing nothing legislatively when we could have spent some of the past 10 years figuring out how to work in that reality.
With Barrett in SCOTUS becomes 5-3 conservative, with Robert as the swing vote (he's voted with the libs on 5-4 decisions several times already. Ages of remaining. 6 of the justices (including ACB) are 48-66. Breyer is 82, Thomas is 72, and Alito is 70. If Biden wins he'd be appointing probably 1-2 justices, and it would remain conservative 5-3-1, or even go to 4-4-1, or even conceivably liberal 5-3-1 (If both Thomas and Alito retired (or died)).
If Biden wins, and the donks win the Senate, he'll need more than just 50 or 51 to pack it, as there will be obviously zero conks, and a couple donk senators who won't go along (Manchin, Tester?). He'll need 52 or 53 in the Senate. Last over/under I saw was donks going from their 47 to 51.
For the SCOTUS to be packed 3 things have to happen IMHOP:
1. Biden wins.
2. Donks pick up 5-6 senate seats.
3. They decide to go through with packing (I think Harris would).