I'm not a lawyer but I don't think you can bring up new evidence on appeal unless it's just been discovered so I don't think Trump's legal beagles can hold back proof of tampering or fraud to save it for the Supreme Court.SeattleGriz wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:22 pmI have no idea if it's a plan, but I would expect all the weak stuff to come first. Ain't going straight to the Supreme Court. It's got to lose it's way there.
2020 General Election
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Re: 2020 General Election
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
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Re: 2020 General Election
According to some on Parler, Sydney Powell’s dismissal is all part of the plan to use her later to prosecute the traitors.SeattleGriz wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:22 pmI have no idea if it's a plan, but I would expect all the weak stuff to come first. Ain't going straight to the Supreme Court. It's got to lose it's way there.
3 dimensional chess!
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Re: 2020 General Election
Gotta admit she was the one I had some hopes on proving something. Trump distancing himself from her doesn't look good. And to think I was just saying that I hope she had her shit together so she doesn't get laughed off the stage.kalm wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:22 amAccording to some on Parler, Sydney Powell’s dismissal is all part of the plan to use her later to prosecute the traitors.SeattleGriz wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:22 pm
I have no idea if it's a plan, but I would expect all the weak stuff to come first. Ain't going straight to the Supreme Court. It's got to lose it's way there.
3 dimensional chess!
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Re: 2020 General Election
The decision handed down in Pennsylvania accurately sums up what most people think about Trump's baseless claims of fraud.
I know, I know...it's just another Republican judge not toting the party line. How dare he??!!!
Brann didn't hold back in any of this.
I know, I know...it's just another Republican judge not toting the party line. How dare he??!!!
https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov ... 02.0_1.pdfn this action, the Trump Campaign and the Individual Plaintiffs (collectively, the “Plaintiffs”) seek to discard millions of votes legally cast by
Pennsylvanians from all corners – from Greene County to Pike County, and everywhere in between. In other words, Plaintiffs ask this Court to disenfranchise almost seven million voters. This Court has been unable to find any case in which a plaintiff has sought such a drastic remedy in the contest of an election, in terms of the sheer volume of votes asked to be invalidated. One might expect that when seeking such a startling outcome, a plaintiff would come formidably armed with compelling legal arguments and factual proof of rampant corruption, such that this Court would have no option but to regrettably grant the proposed injunctive relief despite the impact it would have on such a large group of citizens.
That has not happened. Instead, this Court has been presented with strained legal arguments without merit and speculative accusations, unpled in the operative complaint and unsupported by evidence. In the United States of America, this cannot justify the disenfranchisement of a single voter, let alone all the voters of its sixth most populated state. Our people, laws, and institutions demand more. At bottom, Plaintiffs have failed to meet their burden to state a claim upon which relief may be granted. Therefore, I grant Defendants’ motions and dismiss Plaintiffs’ action with prejudice.
Brann didn't hold back in any of this.
I know next to nothing about law, but in reading this decision and the judges' constant referral to the Plantiffs briefs and cases being "misguided", "mix matched" as well as throwing anything against the wall and seeing what sticks (like the theory of competitive standing) - it amazes me that trained, professional lawyers would go into court with such hogwash. They must've known their case was flimsy.Plaintiffs’ only remaining claim alleges a violation of equal protection. This claim, like Frankenstein’s Monster, has been haphazardly stitched together from two distinct theories in an attempt to avoid controlling precedent.
Turns out I might be a little gay. 89Hen 11/7/17
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Re: 2020 General Election
Who won?
Re: 2020 General Election
This part might be favorite of the entire document
The crux of Trumps legal strategy is right there - disenfranchise millions of voters in order to stay in office. If that isn't an obvious assault on the Constitution, I'm not sure what is.Moreover, even if they could state a valid claim, the Court could not grant Plaintiffs the relief they seek. Crucially, Plaintiffs fail to understand the relationship between right and remedy. Though every injury must have its proper redress,116 a court may not prescribe a remedy unhinged from the underlying right being asserted.117 By seeking injunctive relief preventing certification of the Pennsylvania election results, Plaintiffs ask this Court to do exactly that.
Even assuming that they can establish that their right to vote has been denied, which they cannot, Plaintiffs seek to remedy the denial of their votes by invalidating the votes of millions of others. Rather than requesting that their votes be counted, they seek to discredit scores of other votes, but only for one race.118 This is simply not how the Constitution works
Turns out I might be a little gay. 89Hen 11/7/17
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Re: 2020 General Election
Eh, and it was easily beat back. So much for the fragility of democracy or, as we were told in 2016, the death of the Republic. The doomsayers must be besides themselves that all of Trump's machinations and temper-tantrums are, in the end, so feckless when confronted with the systems of government that we have in place. If this is really an assault on the Constitution, we should all be overjoyed that the Constitution is apparently as robust and firmly in place as it appears to be.Ibanez wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:11 am This part might be favorite of the entire document
The crux of Trumps legal strategy is right there - disenfranchise millions of voters in order to stay in office. If that isn't an obvious assault on the Constitution, I'm not sure what is.Moreover, even if they could state a valid claim, the Court could not grant Plaintiffs the relief they seek. Crucially, Plaintiffs fail to understand the relationship between right and remedy. Though every injury must have its proper redress,116 a court may not prescribe a remedy unhinged from the underlying right being asserted.117 By seeking injunctive relief preventing certification of the Pennsylvania election results, Plaintiffs ask this Court to do exactly that.
Even assuming that they can establish that their right to vote has been denied, which they cannot, Plaintiffs seek to remedy the denial of their votes by invalidating the votes of millions of others. Rather than requesting that their votes be counted, they seek to discredit scores of other votes, but only for one race.118 This is simply not how the Constitution works
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Re: 2020 General Election
It was an an assault - a misguided one. It also restores some faith in our justice system -especially when you think that people believe a Republican will be lenient towards other Republicans (and the same for Democratic judges). The law was applied w/o deference to the judge's political beliefs. He stuck to what the Constitution and law allows. Anyone that thought Trump was going to deftly maneuver through the courts and overturn the election in his favor are going to be pissed regardless of the the decision. There'll still be those (and some post here) that'll claim the election was rife with fraud and Biden is a pretender.GannonFan wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:15 amEh, and it was easily beat back. So much for the fragility of democracy or, as we were told in 2016, the death of the Republic. The doomsayers must be besides themselves that all of Trump's machinations and temper-tantrums are, in the end, so feckless when confronted with the systems of government that we have in place. If this is really an assault on the Constitution, we should all be overjoyed that the Constitution is apparently as robust and firmly in place as it appears to be.
Turns out I might be a little gay. 89Hen 11/7/17
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Re: 2020 General Election
That's okay, we had folks (and some post here) that Trump's election was fraudulent and illegitimate and that Trump was a Russian asset. If we can survive 4 years of "the Resistance" I'm sure we can survive whatever the Trumpkins will come up with for the next 4 years.Ibanez wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:23 amIt was an an assault - a misguided one. It also restores some faith in our justice system -especially when you think that people believe a Republican will be lenient towards other Republicans (and the same for Democratic judges). The law was applied w/o deference to the judge's political beliefs. He stuck to what the Constitution and law allows. Anyone that thought Trump was going to deftly maneuver through the courts and overturn the election in his favor are going to be pissed regardless of the the decision. There'll still be those (and some post here) that'll claim the election was rife with fraud and Biden is a pretender.GannonFan wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:15 am
Eh, and it was easily beat back. So much for the fragility of democracy or, as we were told in 2016, the death of the Republic. The doomsayers must be besides themselves that all of Trump's machinations and temper-tantrums are, in the end, so feckless when confronted with the systems of government that we have in place. If this is really an assault on the Constitution, we should all be overjoyed that the Constitution is apparently as robust and firmly in place as it appears to be.
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Re: 2020 General Election
We will survive...but we might be screaming in our heads for them to STFU.GannonFan wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:01 amThat's okay, we had folks (and some post here) that Trump's election was fraudulent and illegitimate and that Trump was a Russian asset. If we can survive 4 years of "the Resistance" I'm sure we can survive whatever the Trumpkins will come up with for the next 4 years.Ibanez wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:23 am
It was an an assault - a misguided one. It also restores some faith in our justice system -especially when you think that people believe a Republican will be lenient towards other Republicans (and the same for Democratic judges). The law was applied w/o deference to the judge's political beliefs. He stuck to what the Constitution and law allows. Anyone that thought Trump was going to deftly maneuver through the courts and overturn the election in his favor are going to be pissed regardless of the the decision. There'll still be those (and some post here) that'll claim the election was rife with fraud and Biden is a pretender.
Turns out I might be a little gay. 89Hen 11/7/17
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Re: 2020 General Election
I think that most of the time whenever I hear a political extremist say anything. I'm pretty good at compartmentalizing.Ibanez wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:06 amWe will survive...but we might be screaming in our heads for them to STFU.GannonFan wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:01 am
That's okay, we had folks (and some post here) that Trump's election was fraudulent and illegitimate and that Trump was a Russian asset. If we can survive 4 years of "the Resistance" I'm sure we can survive whatever the Trumpkins will come up with for the next 4 years.
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Re: 2020 General Election
I agree with the dismissal of Trump's lawsuits and for the most part they are baseless claims (I will get to the most part later in my post). There are a few instances where I do think things were "hinky" but no more than any other year in those instances. There is always small voter fraud taking place and for the most part it comes down to individuals, not some mass conspiracy by either party. There are certain cities/areas that are historically "good" or "bad" at this depending on ones perspective.
Is it enough to change an election, I do not know. Maybe, maybe not. I think there are questions to be answered and the local authorities (state officials) are handling that as far as I can tell. One of the few areas I have a concern about is the Dominion Voting system software was not as robust as I think it should be (my opinion and based on why some states turned down the system (Texas and others) those concerns are valid). Outside of that I still have faith in the system and think Biden won (whether or not it was fully on the up and up, I think compared to past elections it is the same, but we still have work to do to make our elections more secure).
From an auditor acquaintance of mine (and not a Trump fan, has worked for Fortune 500 companies and the Government). Bold points are what I agree with the most.
"A different visual of the 3:45 AM Miracle Spike in Wisconsin.
There's also four sworn affidavits from witnesses that two hours before this a massive pile of ballots were brought in and processed without observers.
I'm not a lawyer or a programmer, so I don't comment on those areas, but I was an auditor. That looks like fuckery.
Problem here is that the controls in this system are utter shit, collusion is super easy, and once you shuffle the fraudulent data in, recounts just recount the fraudulent data. It is like somebody pissed in the punch bowl, and they say since you can't strain out the urine molecules, you should just drink your punch and shut up.
I'm sure this post will get another "fact check" from "experts" who will declare that election fraud is virtually impossible because it would require two whole steps (even though in finance we routinely have double or triple that many controls to circumvent and fraud is still routine) and that everyone in the system is perfectly honest (even though collusion is the basic building block of fraud in every other walk of life). "
Is it enough to change an election, I do not know. Maybe, maybe not. I think there are questions to be answered and the local authorities (state officials) are handling that as far as I can tell. One of the few areas I have a concern about is the Dominion Voting system software was not as robust as I think it should be (my opinion and based on why some states turned down the system (Texas and others) those concerns are valid). Outside of that I still have faith in the system and think Biden won (whether or not it was fully on the up and up, I think compared to past elections it is the same, but we still have work to do to make our elections more secure).
From an auditor acquaintance of mine (and not a Trump fan, has worked for Fortune 500 companies and the Government). Bold points are what I agree with the most.
"A different visual of the 3:45 AM Miracle Spike in Wisconsin.
There's also four sworn affidavits from witnesses that two hours before this a massive pile of ballots were brought in and processed without observers.
I'm not a lawyer or a programmer, so I don't comment on those areas, but I was an auditor. That looks like fuckery.
Problem here is that the controls in this system are utter shit, collusion is super easy, and once you shuffle the fraudulent data in, recounts just recount the fraudulent data. It is like somebody pissed in the punch bowl, and they say since you can't strain out the urine molecules, you should just drink your punch and shut up.
I'm sure this post will get another "fact check" from "experts" who will declare that election fraud is virtually impossible because it would require two whole steps (even though in finance we routinely have double or triple that many controls to circumvent and fraud is still routine) and that everyone in the system is perfectly honest (even though collusion is the basic building block of fraud in every other walk of life). "
“The best of all things is to learn. Money can be lost or stolen, health and strength may fail, but what you have committed to your mind is yours forever.” – Louis L’Amour
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” - G. Michael Hopf
"I am neither especially clever nor especially gifted. I am only very, very curious.” – Albert Einstein
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” - G. Michael Hopf
"I am neither especially clever nor especially gifted. I am only very, very curious.” – Albert Einstein
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Re: 2020 General Election
No shit. The constant handwringing from the left has become comical. EVERYTHING is a conspiracy. EVERYTHING is “the end of the Republic”.GannonFan wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:15 amEh, and it was easily beat back. So much for the fragility of democracy or, as we were told in 2016, the death of the Republic. The doomsayers must be besides themselves that all of Trump's machinations and temper-tantrums are, in the end, so feckless when confronted with the systems of government that we have in place. If this is really an assault on the Constitution, we should all be overjoyed that the Constitution is apparently as robust and firmly in place as it appears to be.
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
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Re: 2020 General Election
I agree with your friend 100%. Especially his punch bowl analogy. Yep, see, no fraud here!Winterborn wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:18 am I agree with the dismissal of Trump's lawsuits and for the most part they are baseless claims (I will get to the most part later in my post). There are a few instances where I do think things were "hinky" but no more than any other year in those instances. There is always small voter fraud taking place and for the most part it comes down to individuals, not some mass conspiracy by either party. There are certain cities/areas that are historically "good" or "bad" at this depending on ones perspective.
Is it enough to change an election, I do not know. Maybe, maybe not. I think there are questions to be answered and the local authorities (state officials) are handling that as far as I can tell. One of the few areas I have a concern about is the Dominion Voting system software was not as robust as I think it should be (my opinion and based on why some states turned down the system (Texas and others) those concerns are valid). Outside of that I still have faith in the system and think Biden won (whether or not it was fully on the up and up, I think compared to past elections it is the same, but we still have work to do to make our elections more secure).
From an auditor acquaintance of mine (and not a Trump fan, has worked for Fortune 500 companies and the Government). Bold points are what I agree with the most.
"A different visual of the 3:45 AM Miracle Spike in Wisconsin.
There's also four sworn affidavits from witnesses that two hours before this a massive pile of ballots were brought in and processed without observers.
I'm not a lawyer or a programmer, so I don't comment on those areas, but I was an auditor. That looks like fuckery.
Problem here is that the controls in this system are utter shit, collusion is super easy, and once you shuffle the fraudulent data in, recounts just recount the fraudulent data. It is like somebody pissed in the punch bowl, and they say since you can't strain out the urine molecules, you should just drink your punch and shut up.
I'm sure this post will get another "fact check" from "experts" who will declare that election fraud is virtually impossible because it would require two whole steps (even though in finance we routinely have double or triple that many controls to circumvent and fraud is still routine) and that everyone in the system is perfectly honest (even though collusion is the basic building block of fraud in every other walk of life). "
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
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"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
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Re: 2020 General Election
Good analogy but aren’t there plausible explanations and multiple media sources that have debunked this?Winterborn wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:18 am I agree with the dismissal of Trump's lawsuits and for the most part they are baseless claims (I will get to the most part later in my post). There are a few instances where I do think things were "hinky" but no more than any other year in those instances. There is always small voter fraud taking place and for the most part it comes down to individuals, not some mass conspiracy by either party. There are certain cities/areas that are historically "good" or "bad" at this depending on ones perspective.
Is it enough to change an election, I do not know. Maybe, maybe not. I think there are questions to be answered and the local authorities (state officials) are handling that as far as I can tell. One of the few areas I have a concern about is the Dominion Voting system software was not as robust as I think it should be (my opinion and based on why some states turned down the system (Texas and others) those concerns are valid). Outside of that I still have faith in the system and think Biden won (whether or not it was fully on the up and up, I think compared to past elections it is the same, but we still have work to do to make our elections more secure).
From an auditor acquaintance of mine (and not a Trump fan, has worked for Fortune 500 companies and the Government). Bold points are what I agree with the most.
"A different visual of the 3:45 AM Miracle Spike in Wisconsin.
There's also four sworn affidavits from witnesses that two hours before this a massive pile of ballots were brought in and processed without observers.
I'm not a lawyer or a programmer, so I don't comment on those areas, but I was an auditor. That looks like fuckery.
Problem here is that the controls in this system are utter shit, collusion is super easy, and once you shuffle the fraudulent data in, recounts just recount the fraudulent data. It is like somebody pissed in the punch bowl, and they say since you can't strain out the urine molecules, you should just drink your punch and shut up.
I'm sure this post will get another "fact check" from "experts" who will declare that election fraud is virtually impossible because it would require two whole steps (even though in finance we routinely have double or triple that many controls to circumvent and fraud is still routine) and that everyone in the system is perfectly honest (even though collusion is the basic building block of fraud in every other walk of life). "
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Re: 2020 General Election
Not to my knowledge. If you know of some, by all means let me know.
“The best of all things is to learn. Money can be lost or stolen, health and strength may fail, but what you have committed to your mind is yours forever.” – Louis L’Amour
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” - G. Michael Hopf
"I am neither especially clever nor especially gifted. I am only very, very curious.” – Albert Einstein
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” - G. Michael Hopf
"I am neither especially clever nor especially gifted. I am only very, very curious.” – Albert Einstein
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Re: 2020 General Election
Quick search...Winterborn wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:38 amNot to my knowledge. If you know of some, by all means let me know.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reu ... SKBN27Q307
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Re: 2020 General Election
That seems logical that they did a batch dump at that time but why only then? And when it does not seem to be normal procedure?kalm wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:42 amQuick search...Winterborn wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:38 am
Not to my knowledge. If you know of some, by all means let me know.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reu ... SKBN27Q307
Not questioning the data just asking questions for clarification. I would fully expect the answer to my question is we forgot and did a batch dump (which is perfectly logical and happens), but I thought I read somewhere it was automated. And I could easily be getting my states mixed up here.
“The best of all things is to learn. Money can be lost or stolen, health and strength may fail, but what you have committed to your mind is yours forever.” – Louis L’Amour
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” - G. Michael Hopf
"I am neither especially clever nor especially gifted. I am only very, very curious.” – Albert Einstein
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” - G. Michael Hopf
"I am neither especially clever nor especially gifted. I am only very, very curious.” – Albert Einstein
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Re: 2020 General Election
In the Long Run, Desperado.
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
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Re: 2020 General Election
Media sources?kalm wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:37 amGood analogy but aren’t there plausible explanations and multiple media sources that have debunked this?Winterborn wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:18 am I agree with the dismissal of Trump's lawsuits and for the most part they are baseless claims (I will get to the most part later in my post). There are a few instances where I do think things were "hinky" but no more than any other year in those instances. There is always small voter fraud taking place and for the most part it comes down to individuals, not some mass conspiracy by either party. There are certain cities/areas that are historically "good" or "bad" at this depending on ones perspective.
Is it enough to change an election, I do not know. Maybe, maybe not. I think there are questions to be answered and the local authorities (state officials) are handling that as far as I can tell. One of the few areas I have a concern about is the Dominion Voting system software was not as robust as I think it should be (my opinion and based on why some states turned down the system (Texas and others) those concerns are valid). Outside of that I still have faith in the system and think Biden won (whether or not it was fully on the up and up, I think compared to past elections it is the same, but we still have work to do to make our elections more secure).
From an auditor acquaintance of mine (and not a Trump fan, has worked for Fortune 500 companies and the Government). Bold points are what I agree with the most.
"A different visual of the 3:45 AM Miracle Spike in Wisconsin.
There's also four sworn affidavits from witnesses that two hours before this a massive pile of ballots were brought in and processed without observers.
I'm not a lawyer or a programmer, so I don't comment on those areas, but I was an auditor. That looks like fuckery.
Problem here is that the controls in this system are utter shit, collusion is super easy, and once you shuffle the fraudulent data in, recounts just recount the fraudulent data. It is like somebody pissed in the punch bowl, and they say since you can't strain out the urine molecules, you should just drink your punch and shut up.
I'm sure this post will get another "fact check" from "experts" who will declare that election fraud is virtually impossible because it would require two whole steps (even though in finance we routinely have double or triple that many controls to circumvent and fraud is still routine) and that everyone in the system is perfectly honest (even though collusion is the basic building block of fraud in every other walk of life). "
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Re: 2020 General Election
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Re: 2020 General Election
How would making PA follow PA election law (only counting absentee ballots received by 8 PM on election day, and recquring signatures match) be disenfranchising millions of voters?Ibanez wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:11 am This part might be favorite of the entire document
The crux of Trumps legal strategy is right there - disenfranchise millions of voters in order to stay in office. If that isn't an obvious assault on the Constitution, I'm not sure what is.Moreover, even if they could state a valid claim, the Court could not grant Plaintiffs the relief they seek. Crucially, Plaintiffs fail to understand the relationship between right and remedy. Though every injury must have its proper redress,116 a court may not prescribe a remedy unhinged from the underlying right being asserted.117 By seeking injunctive relief preventing certification of the Pennsylvania election results, Plaintiffs ask this Court to do exactly that.
Even assuming that they can establish that their right to vote has been denied, which they cannot, Plaintiffs seek to remedy the denial of their votes by invalidating the votes of millions of others. Rather than requesting that their votes be counted, they seek to discredit scores of other votes, but only for one race.118 This is simply not how the Constitution works
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