UNI88 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:30 pm
clenz wrote: ↑Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:15 pm
I keep hearing, "the vast majority of cops are good," and yet more and more, we are seeing that the vast majority isn't actually as vast as people want to think.
I have some pretty strong connections to the local metro PD around me. I would call half...MAYBE...of them "good ones."
My experience is different. Maybe I'm wrong or maybe you're stereotyping cops similar to how bigots have stereotyped POC.
Regardless, none of that answers the questions of how is defunding the police, spraypainting ACAB (All Cops Are Bastards) and tearing down the police and their morale going to help that? How is rioting and looting going to help that?
The people suffering the most from defunding the police and the drop in police morale are the poor and less fortunate. That's going to get worse and at some point, the reduced protection is going to be called racist which will be ironic because the protection has been cut back in response to racism.
I have the experiences that I have seen. I have my experiences and stories from police officers I know and have connections to. Hell, my ex-wife fucked around with one before she told me she wanted a divorce. I ended up hearing from that situation just how fucked the police system around here is
That wasn't news to me, though. The PD in this area is the same as it is in any "large" metro (get your shots in for my metro not being large-scaled for a population of states it's considered large).
You can tell me it's a "good cop just following bad system orders," and I wouldn't tell you you're wrong. I would tell you that I question how good those officers are if they are sworn to uphold the law but will willingly and happily enforce policies and patrol areas in a less than racially "fair" or proportional way.
For example, I can look at how the different school districts in my metro are treated, policed and how their graduates are viewed simply because of their school.
The district I, my kids, are in is seen as the rich kid snotty school. This is because the way the metro grew, white flight, etc., led everyone to want to live in Marion and commute to Cedar Rapids because Marion is/was a small suburb on the northeast side where "the trouble" wasn't. This led to all of the engineers for Rockwell Collins, or Collins Aerospace, or whatever they are called now, moving to Marion. It's maybe 10-15 minutes if you catch traffic bad to the Collins campus from almost anywhere in Marion. My district is one of the four largest in the state of Iowa and one of the two or three fastest-growing. My children are expected to graduate with classes of 1200+ compared to the 800 or so that exist now. Yet, because of housing prices, even at 1200 kids, it will be 96% white kids, with the vast majority of the minority group made up of South Asian children whose parents are engineers, medical professionals, or IT specialists.
Compare that to a school like Cedar Rapids, Washington, a school just north of "the ghetto" in Cedar Rapids (Again, make light of the Ghetto all you want - proportionally, it's the same as larger metros when scaled.). It is just north of downtown/old Cedar Rapids. This is a school that has produced NFL players Adrian Arrington, Frank Baker, Rob Bruggeman, Dedric Ward. Actor Ashton Kutcher, Don DeFore. A handful of MLB and ABA players. Grand Wood on the art side of things. Arthur Collins, the inventor, and person who created the previously mentioned Rockwell Collins. The guy who invented the modern trampoline. A school that has been named one of the top academic schools in the state of Iowa - and the #1 school more than a few times. The school is 40-45% minority (almost exclusively African American) in any given year.
I've worked at my kids' schools (specifically the high school as both a volunteer and a paid employee). It's no secret just how fucking shitty those kids are. The amount of drug use, alcohol abuse, sexual promiscuity-related issues (assault, teen pregnancies, abortions, etc.) is every bit as high as it is at Cedar Rapids, Washington. Do you want to guess as to which school has police patroling near it all day? Which schools graduates are seen as bright young minds and when they answer the question "Where did you go to school" and they answer are greeted with a response of "Oh, that's a great school." or "Oh, that's wonderful." Then what schools graduates are often dismissed as being lesser simply because they went to a school 4 miles SE from the school in Marion.
It is quite comparable to how police patrol cities, and in this specific case, how they responded to a call at that intersection in that neighborhood. Even if not KKK-style racist, they had in their minds before they even got on scene what would need to be done and that an extreme level of force would need to be used. They, specifically Chauvin and Thao (with his little dick syndrome trying to front up the crowd as he did), went into it wanting to show the crowd of minorities, or poor citizens that lived in that area, how big and bad they were simply because of the neighborhood it was taking place in. They went in with the plan of using as much force as they could, short of firing live rounds or using a baton, on him to prove their point to anyone watching. Hell, look at the fuckers in the news right not from Virginia that a minority lieutenant is suing because of how they approached his vehicle. How they told him "he should be scared for his life."; how he was pepper-sprayed at point-blank range, having done nothing to provoke it. Ultimately having an officer tell him, "It's just hard to know if you are one of the good ones or the bad ones" when it came to his race.
I'm not going to speak for any of your questions on the riots or vandalism because I've not engaged in that discussion. After all, that's not what I'm talking about in regards to this case. What caused George Floyd's death, beyond Chauvin needlessly and brazenly carelessly, kneeling on his neck is the exact "systematic racism" that those who aren't rioting, vandalizing, and getting violent, have been protesting. It is that exact systematic racism (Oh, it's a black man in an area that is heavily minority, so we have to go in dick-swinging) that leads to the result of George Floyd being killed by Chauvin's action.
Hell, at this point in my life, I try to be as conscious of subconscious bias as I can be, and I still struggle with it. I understand that. I will never say "I don't see color" or "I don't have stereotypical/racist thoughts" because, unfortunately, I do. I instantly correct myself on them because it's not what I believe. It has been ingrained in my head as "reality" since I was a young child. I'm sure I've made minorities around me uncomfortable simply by making sure I do a quick wave or head nod at them because I don't want them to assume I'm just another white guy in Iowa that sees them as "Chicago cast-offs," which is a major stereotype that needs fighting in Cedar Rapids daily. Every time there is a story about a crime, 80% of the comments from old why conservative Karen and Keith are, "This is what we get for welcoming the Chicago gang bangers."
So no, I don't condone the violence and rioters. I never have. I never will. What I have said, going back to last summer, is I get why these feelings of anger exist within those communities. I get why they feel unheard. I get the feeling of "The people in charge have never listened to us when we try to speak when we try to do things "the way we are told. So now I'm going to make damn sure they can't ignore my voice anymore." I get it. I stand with them in that. I will march in protests alongside them because of that. I can't relate to that feeling, but I can use my ability as a highly educated straight male while helping them. Yes, there is some societal privilege to that when it comes to "getting things done." If that weren't the case, the percentage of non-straight white males in positions of power and influence would be much higher. Our country was literally built by straight white males and had the rules written to ensure the power of the straight, white, wealthy male. No, I won't join in when it comes to those setting buildings on fire, setting cars on fire, spray painting things, etc. Again, those aren't protesters. Those are rioters from both sides of the aisle taking advantage of a situation with an already short fuse.