Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

[Gil Dobie]

1980s I-AA was barely out of DII. More scholarships meant just the same mediocre teams with more schalorships. We even beat a playoff Griz at home with an average 2003 DII team.

For years tracked how the different divisions and subdivisions did against each other. I always said that the top teams in D-II could often compete with the top teams in I-AA/FCS. There have been some big blowouts of I-AA/FCS playoff teams by D-II playoff teams. There was even one case where the eventual D-II national champion beat the eventual I-AA national champion during the regular season. However, overall, I-AA/FCS teams held a very substantial edge in overall wins and losses. Also, I-AA playoff teams held a very substantial edge over D-II playoff teams in head to head matchups.

I don't think there is any way any D-II team could have stayed on the field with the Tracy Ham Georgia Southern teams.

You think wrong!

[Gil Dobie]

For years tracked how the different divisions and subdivisions did against each other. I always said that the top teams in D-II could often compete with the top teams in I-AA/FCS. There have been some big blowouts of I-AA/FCS playoff teams by D-II playoff teams. There was even one case where the eventual D-II national champion beat the eventual I-AA national champion during the regular season. However, overall, I-AA/FCS teams held a very substantial edge in overall wins and losses. Also, I-AA playoff teams held a very substantial edge over D-II playoff teams in head to head matchups.

I don't think there is any way any D-II team could have stayed on the field with the Tracy Ham Georgia Southern teams.

You think wrong!

1985, Newberry splits with GSU and Furman and blows out Davidson. Newberry doesn't make the D2 playoffs. There just wasn't a big difference in talent overall.

[UNI88]

Let's get back on topic. The bizumbs domination of FCS has made the division dull. It's too bad North Dakota is too far away from an FBS conference. Maybe they can just join the CFL.

[Ivytalk]

Let's get back on topic. The bizumbs domination of FCS has made the division dull. It's too bad North Dakota is too far away from an FBS conference. Maybe they can just join the CFL.

Yeah, as I’ve said, it’s high time to kick them ungulates upstairs. Maybe they can be the “flatland” team for the Mountain West Conference.

[Gil Dobie]

If GSU, App, CCU, JMU, ETC, had all stayed FCS, and the Bison had won, you would be saying the same thing. Step up your programs.

[Gil Dobie]

We had other NCC schools that would not move up when I-AA was formed. In the last vote, a major hockey school was against it. UNC moved up, NDSU waited a year for another school. Even the major hockey school moved up. Big Sky rejected us, not the Montana schools though. Great West was a good stepping stone. There is no stepping stone at this time for FBS. Montanas, Dakotas, UNI and a few others could form a nice FBS conference like the Great West, maybe make it permanent

[89Hen]

If GSU, App, CCU, JMU, ETC, had all stayed FCS, and the Bison had won, you would be saying the same thing. Step up your programs.

If my aunt had balls...

[UNI88]

If GSU, App, CCU, JMU, ETC, had all stayed FCS, and the Bison had won, you would be saying the same thing. Step up your programs.

What if we can't just step up our programs? What if colleges/universities that have an affiliated football program but whose priority is academics can't compete with a football program that has an affiliated university whose priority is winning football championships?

It's hard to compete when high school players prioritize championships over academics. This despite the reality that 98.4% of college football players won't make the NFL. Focusing on football rather than academics is short-sighted and foolish but they still do it and too many of their parents back them up.

[Gil Dobie]

If GSU, App, CCU, JMU, ETC, had all stayed FCS, and the Bison had won, you would be saying the same thing. Step up your programs.

What if we can't just step up our programs? What if colleges/universities that have an affiliated football program but whose priority is academics can't compete with a football program that has an affiliated university whose priority is winning football championships?

It's hard to compete when high school players prioritize championships over academics. This despite the reality that 98.4% of college football players won't make the NFL. Focusing on football rather than academics is short-sighted and foolish but they still do it and too many of their parents back them up.

Fire Farley. Some places prioritize both. We have several Seniors with a Covid redshirt, that would start again if they came back, but are moving on to their post football careers.

[Gil Dobie]

If GSU, App, CCU, JMU, ETC, had all stayed FCS, and the Bison had won, you would be saying the same thing. Step up your programs.

If my aunt had balls...

Uncle Hen.

[UNI88]

What if we can't just step up our programs? What if colleges/universities that have an affiliated football program but whose priority is academics can't compete with a football program that has an affiliated university whose priority is winning football championships?

It's hard to compete when high school players prioritize championships over academics. This despite the reality that 98.4% of college football players won't make the NFL. Focusing on football rather than academics is short-sighted and foolish but they still do it and too many of their parents back them up.

Fire Farley. Some places prioritize both. We have several Seniors with a Covid redshirt, that would start again if they came back, but are moving on to their post football careers.

It's definitely frustrating watching Farley's teams struggle offensively but he's also created a family culture where former players want to send their kid to play for him. There is a value in that so maybe firing him isn't as cut and dried as you want to make it. Of course, fans who prioritize winning over character and academics would call that a loser attitude.

I'd like for UNI to win a Natty but I don't want to sell our soul to do it.

[AZGrizFan]

We had other NCC schools that would not move up when I-AA was formed. In the last vote, a major hockey school was against it. UNC moved up, NDSU waited a year for another school. Even the major hockey school moved up. Big Sky rejected us, not the Montana schools though. Great West was a good stepping stone. There is no stepping stone at this time for FBS. Montanas, Dakotas, UNI and a few others could form a nice FBS conference like the Great West, maybe make it permanent

Man, I would love that.

Montana
MSU
UND
NDSU
USD
SDSU
EWU
Weber

Let PSU, ISU, Idaho, UNC, NAU, CP, UCD and Suck State have their own conference.

[Pwns]

Here's some winning percentages for select teams on select years compared with JMU's 2 most recent head coaches...

NDSU (Chris Klieman) 69-6 (0.920)
Alabama (2008-2021) 176-18 (0.907)
NDSU (Matt Entz) 37-4 (0.902)
JMU (Curt Cignetti) 33-5 (0.868)
Georgia Southern (1997-2001) 62-10 (0.861)
JMU (Mike Houston) 37-6 (0.860)
Georgia Southern (1985-1989) 62-11 (0.849)
Marshall (1992-1996) 62-12 (0.839)
App State (2005-2009) 61-12 (0.836)

Does anyone really think we're just seeing 4 of the best head coaches in the history of the subdivision in one era? I'm trying to be objective, but it's really hard to come to any other conclusion.

FCS is not upper level DII anymore. Programs are better, no more 'stop this option' team champions. NDSU in the 1980s could have beaten the GSUs of the 1980s.

Gil, do you think a lot of the FCS teams we've seen that rarely or never made deep playoff runs before the '10s (like Jax State, Towson, Montana State, etc.) that are now commonly making them all somehow got better?

And do you think it's just a coincidence JMU has a run with Cignetti that would've been unprecedented before NDSU's first season of playoff eligibility?

You seem to be making a completely circuitous thought processes to try and make this anything other than what it apparently is.

[Gil Dobie]

FCS is not upper level DII anymore. Programs are better, no more 'stop this option' team champions. NDSU in the 1980s could have beaten the GSUs of the 1980s.

Gil, do you think a lot of the FCS teams we've seen that rarely or never made deep playoff runs before the '10s (like Jax State, Towson, Montana State, etc.) that are now commonly making them all somehow got better?

And do you think it's just a coincidence JMU has a run with Cignetti that would've been unprecedented before NDSU's first season of playoff eligibility?

You seem to be making a completely circuitous thought processes to try and make this anything other than what it apparently is.

Montana State is getting better. Give they a couple more years with the new system. South Dakota State, Weber St, EWU, UNI, Nova, Missouri St, UIW, Sac St, UCD, are teams that are getting better, and have or will be making some good playoff runs, sans coaching changes. The biggest blowout in the championship was back in 2003, with all the so-called great teams still in I-AA. NDSU has lost more games to the Big Sky and Southland than the CAA or SoGone conferences. The tide has shifted west, and could go back east again someday.

[89Hen]

NDSU has lost more games to the Big Sky and Southland than the CAA or SoGone conferences.

Last ten years...

2020 - Sam Houston
2016 - James Madison
2015 - Montana

And during that time the Bizen are 14-1 vs Big Sky. Wow, that's an incredible stat. I guess you were hoping nobody would look.

[Gil Dobie]

NDSU has lost more games to the Big Sky and Southland than the CAA or SoGone conferences.

Last ten years...

2020 - Sam Houston
2016 - James Madison
2015 - Montana

And during that time the Bizen are 14-1 vs Big Sky. Wow, that's an incredible stat. I guess you were hoping nobody would look.

Did I say 10 years? Should have clarified, since move to I-AA. EWU playoff loss, Montana State regular season, losses to Cal Poly, UNC and UCD, SHSU regular season loss

[kalm]

Gil, do you think a lot of the FCS teams we've seen that rarely or never made deep playoff runs before the '10s (like Jax State, Towson, Montana State, etc.) that are now commonly making them all somehow got better?

And do you think it's just a coincidence JMU has a run with Cignetti that would've been unprecedented before NDSU's first season of playoff eligibility?

You seem to be making a completely circuitous thought processes to try and make this anything other than what it apparently is.

Montana State is getting better. Give they a couple more years with the new system. South Dakota State, Weber St, EWU, UNI, Nova, Missouri St, UIW, Sac St, UCD, are teams that are getting better, and have or will be making some good playoff runs, sans coaching changes. The biggest blowout in the championship was back in 2003, with all the so-called great teams still in I-AA. NDSU has lost more games to the Big Sky and Southland than the CAA or SoGone conferences. The tide has shifted west, and could go back east again someday.

Better athletes across the subdivision than just even 10 years ago. Both can happen…NDSU’s dominance AND other programs improving.

[89Hen]

Better athletes across the subdivision than just even 10 years ago. Both can happen…NDSU’s dominance AND other programs improving.

Last two years have seen the lowest number of I-AA players drafted COMBINED than any other year since 1993 (and probably beyond, but that's as far as my numbers go back). And 2013 was tied for lowest total as well.

1993 - 23
1994 - 25
1995 - 21
1996 - 30
1997 - 30
1998 - 20
1999 - 26
2000 - 28
2001 - 20
2002 - 18
2003 - 14
2004 - 15
2005 - 17
2006 - 16
2007 - 17
2008 - 24
2009 - 15
2010 - 19
2011 - 21
2012 - 15
2013 - 19
2014 - 19
2015 - 18*
2016 - 20
2017 - 15
2018 - 19
2019 - 14*
2020 - 6
2021 - 6*

*Includes grad transfers who went to the FBS in final season

[89Hen]

Did I say 10 years? Should have clarified, since move to I-AA. EWU playoff loss, Montana State regular season, losses to Cal Poly, UNC and UCD, SHSU regular season loss

So wait... you say that these teams are better today, but that they can no longer beat the Bizen says otherwise. This is getting embarrassing Gil.

[UNI88]

All I know is that I'm bored with the same teaming winning almost every year and I'm losing interest. That sucks because I like football.

Maybe UNI should just move to the MAC if they'll have us - decent basketball and an opportunity to play in bowls against Georgia Southern, App State, etc.

[Gil Dobie]

Did I say 10 years? Should have clarified, since move to I-AA. EWU playoff loss, Montana State regular season, losses to Cal Poly, UNC and UCD, SHSU regular season loss

So wait... you say that these teams are better today, but that they can no longer beat the Bizen says otherwise. This is getting embarrassing Gil.

2 different discussions. SIU, SDSU and SHSU all beat us in the last calendar year.

[Gil Dobie]

Better athletes across the subdivision than just even 10 years ago. Both can happen…NDSU’s dominance AND other programs improving.

Last two years have seen the lowest number of I-AA players drafted COMBINED than any other year since 1993 (and probably beyond, but that's as far as my numbers go back). And 2013 was tied for lowest total as well.

1993 - 23
1994 - 25
1995 - 21
1996 - 30
1997 - 30
1998 - 20
1999 - 26
2000 - 28
2001 - 20
2002 - 18
2003 - 14
2004 - 15
2005 - 17
2006 - 16
2007 - 17
2008 - 24
2009 - 15
2010 - 19
2011 - 21
2012 - 15
2013 - 19
2014 - 19
2015 - 18*
2016 - 20
2017 - 15
2018 - 19
2019 - 14*
2020 - 6
2021 - 6*

*Includes grad transfers who went to the FBS in final season

Bison had 3 players in the last draft. Are you ommitting some things there?

[89Hen]

Bison had 3 players in the last draft. Are you ommitting some things there?

I guess they had half the players drafted then. That was copy and paste.

https://herosports.com/draft-fcs-picks- ... 2019-ajaj/

[89Hen]

So wait... you say that these teams are better today, but that they can no longer beat the Bizen says otherwise. This is getting embarrassing Gil.

2 different discussions. SIU, SDSU and SHSU all beat us in the last calendar year.

You're not making things better for yourself.

[UNI88]

Bison had 3 players in the last draft. Are you ommitting some things there?

I guess they had half the players drafted then. That was copy and paste.

https://herosports.com/draft-fcs-picks- ... 2019-ajaj/

Looks that way ...

Trey Lance, NDZU
Dillon Radunz, NDZU
Spencer Brown, UNI
Ellerson Smith, UNI
Robert Rochell, UCA
Jabril Cox, NDZU via LSU