Biden’s mishandling of classified documents.

[∞∞∞]

i figured someone would start a thread on this but this is obviously a completely different situation than the situation with the Trump thing. Most importantly, there is no evidence that Biden intentionally took the materials nor has Biden resisted returning the materials to the National Archives. Trump OBVIOUSLY took the materials intentionally and OBVIOUSLY resisted returning them. It's unfortunate because it gives Republicans an opportunity to try to deflect from what Trump did. But the two situations are nowhere close to equivalent.

Intent isn’t part of the criminal statute.

Lol what?

Not only is intent important in criminal law, it's one of the basic foundations of our justice system.

Just Google "intent in criminal law" and you'll get scholarly journals, pages from the Justice Department, legal opinions, college classes, etc. There's even a Wikipedia page dedicated to just this topic. It's one of the most important arguments when juries/judges decide cases/punishments.

[Baldy]

i figured someone would start a thread on this but this is obviously a completely different situation than the situation with the Trump thing. Most importantly, there is no evidence that Biden intentionally took the materials nor has Biden resisted returning the materials to the National Archives. Trump OBVIOUSLY took the materials intentionally and OBVIOUSLY resisted returning them. It's unfortunate because it gives Republicans an opportunity to try to deflect from what Trump did. But the two situations are nowhere close to equivalent.

G.F.Y.

Due to Biden's political designation, nothing will come of this, absolutely nothing.

The Hildabeast gets caught with tens of thousands of classified documents on an unsecured private email server in her home - No big deal.

Former National Security Advisor Sandy Berger acting as Bill Clinton's designated representative stole and destroyed classified documents from the National Archives on at least four separate occasions. No big deal. He got slapped on the wrist with a feather. It also needs to be noted that he was the first person ever caught stealing documents from the National Archives who never served federal prison time.

Trump gets caught with classified documents at MAL and our democracy is in such grave danger that the Donks are peeing themselves to keep the idiot from running for office again.

.

[houndawg]

If he had the authority to declassify documents as POTUS, that authority ended on January 20, 2021. If the process was incomplete on that date then the documents were not declassified and his authority to do so was gone.

True. Now that said, Trump may of had (has) a similar understanding of what the President's power is that the average American thinks it is. The President may issue a EO, but that has to be taken care of by staff/bureaucrats. Who quite easily could have delayed the implementation of that EO as long as possible. (Which is SG point) That does not mean he can declassify papers after he left office and while I do not know the rules of declassification i.e. the step by step process it takes and who signs off at each level, if it is like the other agencies that I have experience working with that authorization to declassify can be stopped at any point in that process. Which is something I doubt Trump understood and thought that once he starts the process, it just goes on.

One of the biggest issue I have with Trump is that him not understanding this process, really limited his effectiveness/incompetence depending on the issue in question. The power lies with the people doing the work, not the politicians. Which is why I am so against broad discretionary powers just assigned to an agency/department that are not beholden to the voters. And that freedom they take full advantage of to push their pet beliefs. I have seen it where you propose or ask something that somebody on that approve chain does not like, and that proposal is just dead.

I admit that I am making some assumptions in the above as I do not have personal experience in this area (declassification of documents), just a more general experience working with other areas of the U.S. government.

That's weak af


..poor dumb bastard didn't know how to do his job

[BDKJMU]

Intent isn’t part of the criminal statute.

Lol what?

Not only is intent important in criminal law, it's one of the basic foundations of our justice system.

Just Google "intent in criminal law" and you'll get scholarly journals, pages from the Justice Department, legal opinions, college classes, etc. There's even a Wikipedia page dedicated to just this topic. It's one of the most important arguments when juries/judges decide cases/punishments.

We're not talking other crimes here. We are specifically talking about the specific statutes in regards to mishandling of classified info, which intent isn''t a necessary part of, despite what Comey said about Hillary Clinton.

...In essence, in order to give Mrs. Clinton a pass, the FBI rewrote the statute, inserting an intent element that Congress did not require. The added intent element, moreover, makes no sense: The point of having a statute that criminalizes gross negligence is to underscore that government officials have a special obligation to safeguard national defense secrets; when they fail to carry out that obligation due to gross negligence, they are guilty of serious wrongdoing. The lack of intent to harm our country is irrelevant. People never intend the bad things that happen due to gross negligence....

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/f ... lary-hook/

The lack of intent line is just a red herring. Prosecution under 18 USC 793 only requires that the information wind up being outside of its proper place of custody. You can argue the intent angle all the live long day but it doesn’t change the fact that the law clearly appears to have been broken.

https://hotair.com/jazz-shaw/2016/05/07 ... se-n233398

[houndawg]

This isn't true. There is an actual declassification process, varying based on the info, which the President can't override. The President isn't some absolute monarch and can't do whatever they want with state secrets. That would be dangerous AF.

Additionally, the Executive Branch can't declassify something the Legislative Branch classified without consultation. And vice-versa.

You know...separation of powers.

Also where is this Constitutional authority the dude is talking about? Please cite the Constitution.

And Trump was going through that process. I gave links in the Trump thread. I don't believe the guy is saying Trump waved a wand and then he was able to mass email them. Of course there is a process to redact certain information.

Why do you think Trump had a SCIF and had them under Secret Service guard? Because the process wasn't completed. The last I heard, they were arguing over further redactions and Trump's lawyers were saying those didn't apply to Trump.

Let me find the link and I'll edit this post to add.

Irrelevant. The documents aren't declassified until the process is complete.

[∞∞∞]

Lol what?

Not only is intent important in criminal law, it's one of the basic foundations of our justice system.

Just Google "intent in criminal law" and you'll get scholarly journals, pages from the Justice Department, legal opinions, college classes, etc. There's even a Wikipedia page dedicated to just this topic. It's one of the most important arguments when juries/judges decide cases/punishments.

We're not talking other crimes here. We are specifically talking about the specific statutes in regards to mishandling of classified info, which intent isn''t a necessary part of, despite what Comey said about Hillary Clinton.

...In essence, in order to give Mrs. Clinton a pass, the FBI rewrote the statute, inserting an intent element that Congress did not require. The added intent element, moreover, makes no sense: The point of having a statute that criminalizes gross negligence is to underscore that government officials have a special obligation to safeguard national defense secrets; when they fail to carry out that obligation due to gross negligence, they are guilty of serious wrongdoing. The lack of intent to harm our country is irrelevant. People never intend the bad things that happen due to gross negligence....

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/f ... lary-hook/

The lack of intent line is just a red herring. Prosecution under 18 USC 793 only requires that the information wind up being outside of its proper place of custody. You can argue the intent angle all the live long day but it doesn’t change the fact that the law clearly appears to have been broken.

https://hotair.com/jazz-shaw/2016/05/07 ... se-n233398

You know BDK, you (and SG) always post links to these random people who take things out of context, or purposefully omit things, or simply make sh*t up. And then you take it as face value.

Because I'm not your mommy, go lookup and read the FIRST line of the statute itself and tell me what it says.

hint: the word intent is in there. You can't just ignore that word, no matter how much you want to. It's literally part of the law.

[BDKJMU]

Bien talking about his mishandling of classified docs, and lying while he's at it. Said "while he was a professor at Penn". Blatant lie- he never taught a single class at UPenn.

[SeattleGriz]

We're not talking other crimes here. We are specifically talking about the specific statutes in regards to mishandling of classified info, which intent isn''t a necessary part of, despite what Comey said about Hillary Clinton.

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/f ... lary-hook/


https://hotair.com/jazz-shaw/2016/05/07 ... se-n233398

You know BDK, you (and SG) always post links to these random people who take things out of context, or purposefully omit things, or simply make sh*t up. And then you take it as face value.

Because I'm not your mommy, go lookup and read the FIRST line of the statute itself and tell me what it says.

hint: the word intent is in there. You can't just ignore that word, no matter how much you want to. It's literally part of the law.

Oh really. So what happened with Russia collusion? Covington Catholic? Ukraine impeachment? Bounties put on US soldiers by the Rooskies, etc. All these examples tend to go one way. The way that eventually when the damage is done, proves was incorrect.

Mike Davis is the former Chief Counsel for Nominations to Senate Judiciary Chairman Chuck Grassley and clerked for Gorsuch.

Catherine Herridge is a well known reporter.

You really think Trump didn't have legal council on the declassification of documents?

[SeattleGriz]

Second set of classified documents found. Probably Nuke secrets Biden was selling.

[SeattleGriz]

Next time start earlier? You don't suppose the groups to be affected by having Russia collusion lies exposed dragged their feet in regards to finalizing the declassification.

Once again, Trump declassified the documents and had every right to take them and keep them locked up until the process was finished. You didn't see them leaked anywhere did you?

If he had the authority to declassify documents as POTUS, that authority ended on January 20, 2021. If the process was incomplete on that date then the documents were not declassified and his authority to do so was gone.

I would assume the declassification is immediate, but before widespread distribution, it needs to go through a redaction process.

If this were not the case, information the President wants declassified could just languish in the process until they were out of office, but that would NEVER happen with our government employees.

[BDKJMU]

If CID, 93 or another government employee did something like what Biden did they would be fired and probably prosecuted.

This isn't true, as I've seen it happen. It really depends on intent.

At my last company, someone accidentally drove off with an entire construction set for a military installation. It was self-reported, the FBI investigated it, our company had to do some re-training, and that was the end of the story.

People mishandle classified documents all the time. On a side note, there's actually an issue in our government that we "overclassify" too many documents just to be on the safe side, even though classifying those documents isn't really necessary.

While that is true, among these classified docs that Biden had in his fake professor office at UPENN weren’t just marked Confidential, or Secret, or Top Secret, but Top Secret SCI, which are the highest of the highest in classification marking. Top Secret SCI aren’t docs that shouldn’t be classified..

[UNI88]

If he had the authority to declassify documents as POTUS, wouldn't that authority have ended on January 20, 2021. If the process was incomplete on that date then the documents were not declassified and trump's authority to do so was gone.

We heard you the 1st time.

Sorry.

Double posting is almost as annoying as someone quoting their own post.

[BDKJMU]

We're not talking other crimes here. We are specifically talking about the specific statutes in regards to mishandling of classified info, which intent isn''t a necessary part of, despite what Comey said about Hillary Clinton.

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/f ... lary-hook/


https://hotair.com/jazz-shaw/2016/05/07 ... se-n233398

You know BDK, you (and SG) always post links to these random people who take things out of context, or purposefully omit things, or simply make sh*t up. And then you take it as face value.

Because I'm not your mommy, go lookup and read the FIRST line of the statute itself and tell me what it says.

hint: the word intent is in there. You can't just ignore that word, no matter how much you want to. It's literally part of the law.

There doesn’t have to be intent. Intent OR Gross Negligence.

Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession or control of any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, note, or information, relating to the national defense, (1) through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, or (2) having knowledge that the same has been illegally removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of its trust, or lost, or stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, and fails to make prompt report of such loss, theft, abstraction, or destruction to his superior officer—
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

Scroll down to subsection (f)
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USC ... sec793.htm

[BDKJMU]

Second set of classified documents found. Probably Nuke secrets Biden was selling.

This thing is completely blowing up now. After Clinton amd now Biden, there’s no chance the left is going to be able to charge Trump now for Mar a Lago, esp absent a special counsel to investigate Biden

[BDKJMU]

The House right now needs to begin hearings on Biden’s mishandling of classified docs. Mayve have a select committee with nationally televised hearings like the 1/6 committee..

[UNI88]

Second set of classified documents found. Probably Nuke secrets Biden was selling.

This thing is completely blowing up now. After Clinton amd now Biden, there’s no chance the left is going to be able to charge Trump now for Mar a Lago, esp absent a special counsel to investigate Biden

Just throw both of those corrupt MFers in the hoosegow for life.

[kalm]

The House right now needs to begin hearings on Biden’s mishandling of classified docs. Mayve have a select committee with nationally televised hearings like the 1/6 committee..

You do realize the 1/6 committee was formed to investigate…1/6?

But yes, I’d be surprised if the House doesn’t pursue this as far as they can. If there’s fire…they should.

[BDKJMU]

The House right now needs to begin hearings on Biden’s mishandling of classified docs. Mayve have a select committee with nationally televised hearings like the 1/6 committee..

You do realize the 1/6 committee was formed to...get Trump?

But yes, I’d be surprised if the House doesn’t pursue this as far as they can. If there’s fire…they should.

FIFY..

[kalm]

You do realize the 1/6 committee was formed to...get Trump?

But yes, I’d be surprised if the House doesn’t pursue this as far as they can. If there’s fire…they should.

FIFY..

Well, yeah…he was a minor role player in it.

[BDKJMU]

[CAA Flagship]

Sorry.

Double posting is almost as annoying as someone quoting their own post.

+1

[CAA Flagship]

Sorry.

Double posting is almost as annoying as someone quoting their own post.

+1

+2

[kalm]

+1

+2

Flaggy gets it.

[kalm]

+2

Flaggy gets it.

This!

[∞∞∞]

I think with the latest news that more classified documents have been found - whether intentional or not - I'd be ok with President Biden facing impeachment. I know the Senate won't convict him, but we can't have former White House officials keep doing this.

I'd also be ok if he is convicted by the Senate. And if it's found to be intentional, he should face criminal charges.

Trump should definitely face criminal charges, however.