The Ukraine Crisis

[UNI88]

Word on the streets is a Ukrainian counteroffensive in Bakhmut in the next few days.

Gotta say I'm weary of predictions that don't come true. Anywho, if Ukraine does mount a counteroffensive and is successful, expect more support of sending young Ukrainians to their death by moral relativism justifications, or Russia crushes and ends all western support with the obligatory slap on the back and job well done while sending 150k+ Ukrainians to their death.

I think Ukrainians would have fought the Russians with sticks and stones if that's all they had. This is a fight for their very existence and they aren't going down easy.

The individual most responsible for the death toll on both sides is the war criminal, Putin.

[houndawg]

And Oysters - I've seen them the size of dinner plates. They grow on trees

Cool! I’ve never had wild oyster mushrooms.

Shaggy manes are also delicious.

My favorite mushroom soup - they're out when the leaves are off the trees so you can drive the back roads and hunt them from your vehicle. Take a ladder if you have room

[houndawg]

Word on the streets is a Ukrainian counteroffensive in Bakhmut in the next few days.

Gotta say I'm weary of predictions that don't come true. Anywho, if Ukraine does mount a counteroffensive and is successful, expect more support of sending young Ukrainians to their death by moral relativism justifications, or Russia crushes and ends all western support with the obligatory slap on the back and job well done while sending 150k+ Ukrainians to their death.

I think Ukrainians would have fought the Russians with sticks and stones if that's all they had. This is a fight for their very existence and they aren't going down easy.

The individual most responsible for the death toll on both sides is the war criminal, Putin.

His ability to ignore what is blindingly obvious to the entire planet is something to behold.

Neville ChamberlainGriz

[houndawg]

Word on the streets is a Ukrainian counteroffensive in Bakhmut in the next few days.

Gotta say I'm weary of predictions that don't come true. Anywho, if Ukraine does mount a counteroffensive and is successful, expect more support of sending young Ukrainians to their death by moral relativism justifications, or Russia crushes and ends all western support with the obligatory slap on the back and job well done while sending 150k+ Ukrainians to their death.

Defending your country against war criminals is moral relativism?

Ok.

I'm beginning to suspect he may even believe his own bullshit

[SeattleGriz]

I think Ukrainians would have fought the Russians with sticks and stones if that's all they had. This is a fight for their very existence and they aren't going down easy.

The individual most responsible for the death toll on both sides is the war criminal, Putin.

His ability to ignore what is blindingly obvious to the entire planet is something to behold.

Neville ChamberlainGriz

Bitch, please.

Russia drew a line, America crossed it.

Tell me about Syria.

[UNI88]

His ability to ignore what is blindingly obvious to the entire planet is something to behold.

Neville ChamberlainGriz

Bitch, please.

Russia drew a line, America crossed it.

Tell me about Syria.

Russia has more troops in Syria than the US.

[houndawg]

His ability to ignore what is blindingly obvious to the entire planet is something to behold.

Neville ChamberlainGriz

Bitch, please.

Russia drew a line, America crossed it.

Tell me about Syria.

Typical....blame America first.....what's next? Peace in our time?

[SeattleGriz]

Bitch, please.

Russia drew a line, America crossed it.

Tell me about Syria.

Russia has more troops in Syria than the US.

And why are the Russian troops there?

Was the US invited into the sovereign nation of Syria?

[UNI88]

Russia has more troops in Syria than the US.

And why are the Russian troops there?

Was the US invited into the sovereign nation of Syria?

Was Russia invited onto the sovereign nation of Ukraine?

[GannonFan]

His ability to ignore what is blindingly obvious to the entire planet is something to behold.

Neville ChamberlainGriz

Bitch, please.

Russia drew a line, America crossed it.

Tell me about Syria.

America didn't cross any line. Russia's line was NATO not looking to expand eastward. Russia then proceeded to interfere with and try to re-establish Soviet-era control over countries in Eastern Europe. Those countries, in turn, fearing for their own existence, turned to the West and NATO in an attempt to maintain control over their own lives and countries. Given what Russia has done in their invasion and attempted subjugation of Ukraine, those concerns and fears were apparently well justified.

You're right, Russia drew a line. Then they pushed other countries, like Ukraine, right over it.

[kalm]

Looks like Russia has gained 1300 miles of new NATO border.

Putin remains a master strategist.

[Skjellyfetti]

Looks like Russia has gained 1300 miles of new NATO border.

Putin remains a master strategist.

[Skjellyfetti]

a timeline of sdhornet's shrinking "Donbas Pincer"

[kalm]

a timeline of sdhornet's shrinking "Donbas Pincer"

Don’t worry..they’ll transition to “it wasn’t worth it/world police arguments now.

[SeattleGriz]

And why are the Russian troops there?

Was the US invited into the sovereign nation of Syria?

Was Russia invited onto the sovereign nation of Ukraine?

They were invited into the Donbass for protection. Much like the US using NATO as an offensive military without approval from Congress, UN approval or a NATO charter.

The moral relativism of one form of geopolitics over another is hilarious.

[SeattleGriz]

Bitch, please.

Russia drew a line, America crossed it.

Tell me about Syria.

America didn't cross any line. Russia's line was NATO not looking to expand eastward. Russia then proceeded to interfere with and try to re-establish Soviet-era control over countries in Eastern Europe. Those countries, in turn, fearing for their own existence, turned to the West and NATO in an attempt to maintain control over their own lives and countries. Given what Russia has done in their invasion and attempted subjugation of Ukraine, those concerns and fears were apparently well justified.

You're right, Russia drew a line. Then they pushed other countries, like Ukraine, right over it.

Nice revisionist history, and way to stick with the oft trotted out line of Putin getting the band back together.

[Skjellyfetti]

They were invited into the Donbass for protection.

lol.

Russia spent almost a year gathering the invasion force.
They recognized DPR/LPR as sovereign states on Feb 21. Russia is the *only* country to recognize them as sovereign states.
On Feb 23, LPR/DPR requested assistance.
February 24, Russia launches their invasion.

"They were invited into the Donbas for protection."

And, even if you believe they were legitimately invited - did that give Russia the right to push on Kyiv, Kharkiv, Melitopol, Kherson, Sumy, etc. etc. ?

[GannonFan]

America didn't cross any line. Russia's line was NATO not looking to expand eastward. Russia then proceeded to interfere with and try to re-establish Soviet-era control over countries in Eastern Europe. Those countries, in turn, fearing for their own existence, turned to the West and NATO in an attempt to maintain control over their own lives and countries. Given what Russia has done in their invasion and attempted subjugation of Ukraine, those concerns and fears were apparently well justified.

You're right, Russia drew a line. Then they pushed other countries, like Ukraine, right over it.

Nice revisionist history, and way to stick with the oft trotted out line of Putin getting the band back together.

What part was revised? It should be easy on your part to show that NATO pursued and sought this push eastward, rather than those countries petitioning NATO and the EU for membership. Problem is, you can't. The best salesperson for countries to want to be part of NATO has always been Putin - he's done more to enlarge and strengthen NATO that anyone in the West ever could.

[GannonFan]

Was Russia invited onto the sovereign nation of Ukraine?

They were invited into the Donbass for protection. Much like the US using NATO as an offensive military without approval from Congress, UN approval or a NATO charter.

The moral relativism of one form of geopolitics over another is hilarious.

Russia was already there, and had been there for at least the past 8 years with paramilitary forces. The only thing that changed with the actual invasion was publicly acknowledging the military was in Ukraine.

[SeattleGriz]

They were invited into the Donbass for protection. Much like the US using NATO as an offensive military without approval from Congress, UN approval or a NATO charter.

The moral relativism of one form of geopolitics over another is hilarious.

Russia was already there, and had been there for at least the past 8 years with paramilitary forces. The only thing that changed with the actual invasion was publicly acknowledging the military was in Ukraine.

Hey. You felt Kosovo was justified. Russia protecting ethnic Russians was justified under the same reasoning.

Our difference is I realize the US pulls shenanigans when it suits them, just like Russia and China, but you seem to believe the US is 100% virtuous.

I've said it before. I'm fine with "installing" democracy, but let's get people who are better at it than our current crop of "diplomats"...if that's what you could call them.

[houndawg]

Russia was already there, and had been there for at least the past 8 years with paramilitary forces. The only thing that changed with the actual invasion was publicly acknowledging the military was in Ukraine.

Hey. You felt Kosovo was justified. Russia protecting ethnic Russians was justified under the same reasoning.

Our difference is I realize the US pulls shenanigans when it suits them, just like Russia and China, but you seem to believe the US is 100% virtuous.

I've said it before. I'm fine with "installing" democracy, but let's get people who are better at it than our current crop of "diplomats"...if that's what you could call them.

...you're blowing smoke.

Russia invaded Ukraine and continues to deliberately target civilians and to forcibly relocate Ukrainian citizens.

Putin lost his shit when he came so close, but just missed, having the US out of NATO and a puppet regime in charge of the US for a second term. His invasion was clearly planned with the assumption that Trump would be re-elected and would stand down US forces, which would have resulted in a quick take over and installation of another puppet regime in Kyiv and little Vladimir the top dog in the free world. Instead he'll wind up on the ash heap of history with the other wannabes, disposed of by his own supporters. So close...

[SeattleGriz]

Hey. You felt Kosovo was justified. Russia protecting ethnic Russians was justified under the same reasoning.

Our difference is I realize the US pulls shenanigans when it suits them, just like Russia and China, but you seem to believe the US is 100% virtuous.

I've said it before. I'm fine with "installing" democracy, but let's get people who are better at it than our current crop of "diplomats"...if that's what you could call them.

...you're blowing smoke.

Russia invaded Ukraine and continues to deliberately target civilians and to forcibly relocate Ukrainian citizens.

Putin lost his shit when he came so close, but just missed, having the US out of NATO and a puppet regime in charge of the US for a second term. His invasion was clearly planned with the assumption that Trump would be re-elected and would stand down US forces, which would have resulted in a quick take over and installation of another puppet regime in Kyiv and little Vladimir the top dog in the free world. Instead he'll wind up on the ash heap of history with the other wannabes, disposed of by his own supporters. So close...

You're full of crap. Russia is not deliberately targeting civilians. That statement is as bereft of logic as you believing Putin blew up his own pipeline.

You're telling me Russia didn't go all Team USA and bomb all the infrastructure, but they'll target civilians. Put down the NY Times.

[houndawg]

...you're blowing smoke.

Russia invaded Ukraine and continues to deliberately target civilians and to forcibly relocate Ukrainian citizens.

Putin lost his shit when he came so close, but just missed, having the US out of NATO and a puppet regime in charge of the US for a second term. His invasion was clearly planned with the assumption that Trump would be re-elected and would stand down US forces, which would have resulted in a quick take over and installation of another puppet regime in Kyiv and little Vladimir the top dog in the free world. Instead he'll wind up on the ash heap of history with the other wannabes, disposed of by his own supporters. So close...

You're full of crap. Russia is not deliberately targeting civilians. That statement is as bereft of logic as you believing Putin blew up his own pipeline.

You're telling me Russia didn't go all Team USA and bomb all the infrastructure, but they'll target civilians. Put down the NY Times.

Put down Putin's dick.

You can see the vids of the missiles hitting apartment buildings all over the internet. Now wipe that stuff off of your chinsky, comrade..

[SeattleGriz]

You're full of crap. Russia is not deliberately targeting civilians. That statement is as bereft of logic as you believing Putin blew up his own pipeline.

You're telling me Russia didn't go all Team USA and bomb all the infrastructure, but they'll target civilians. Put down the NY Times.

Put down Putin's dick.

You can see the vids of the missiles hitting apartment buildings all over the internet. Now wipe that stuff off of your chinsky, comrade..

Uh huh. Just like when Russia attacked Poland. No wait! That was the crappy Russian air defense system missing it's target and Ukraine bombing an ally. You have no clue what you're seeing in the videos, especially as Ukraine has come down hard on press freedom, or lack thereof.

[UNI88]

...you're blowing smoke.

Russia invaded Ukraine and continues to deliberately target civilians and to forcibly relocate Ukrainian citizens.

Putin lost his shit when he came so close, but just missed, having the US out of NATO and a puppet regime in charge of the US for a second term. His invasion was clearly planned with the assumption that Trump would be re-elected and would stand down US forces, which would have resulted in a quick take over and installation of another puppet regime in Kyiv and little Vladimir the top dog in the free world. Instead he'll wind up on the ash heap of history with the other wannabes, disposed of by his own supporters. So close...

You're full of crap. Russia is not deliberately targeting civilians. That statement is as bereft of logic as you believing Putin blew up his own pipeline.

You're telling me Russia didn't go all Team USA and bomb all the infrastructure, but they'll target civilians. Put down the NY Times.

What did the ICC say about Putin and his treatment of civilians?